New build (not fired), water in cylinder-head gasket backwards?

[Seth Swoboda]

One thing I've always been leary of is aluminum heads, cast iron block and copper gasket. That is a lot if dissimilar metals and things heat up and cool off at different rates. That is probably a dumbfounded concern. Lots of folks have used aluminum heads, even Ford, for a century. That is why the Graphtite gasket would be preferred for me.

[busmania]

I took off the other side. No leaks, no issues. Will install new gaskets on both sides with sealer this time. I’m wondering if it’s just as simple as a lack of sealer. We’ll see. I have some graphtite gaskets on order too along with a couple of sets of others to compare them all. . Will prefer to use the graphtite if thick enough.

[47topless]

I would proceed with caution from this point forward. I learned the hard way that, cranking the engine, with water in the cylinders, will result in a deadly compression reading in the cylinders. Deadly, that is, to the starter, ring gear, associated ignition components,etc etc etc. The severely enhanced compression, in these "water" cylinders places a new, tremendous (well beyond specs), load on the starter to operate and eventually the starter, and it's supporting cast, will fail.
Looks like you're doing it right. Good luck.
Phil

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Automotive Stud

If you want to stick with Best copper gaskets, looks like it's p/n 505C on their site.

These types of copper gaskets do not have "sealing rings" around the center water holes (circular or trapezoid style).

Due to this, you can run the ones with the regular round holes on a block that has the trapezoid water hole in the middle-center. As others noted, having the smaller hole tended to force more water to the other parts of the head for cooling - which is a good thing.

I'm just hoping him switching over to the GraphTite composite head gaskets with Copper-Coat solves his issue. Hopefully he does not have a block issue.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Seth Swoboda

One thing I've always been leary of is aluminum heads, cast iron block and copper gasket. That is a lot if dissimilar metals and things heat up and cool off at different rates. That is probably a dumbfounded concern. Lots of folks have used aluminum heads, even Ford, for a century. That is why the Graphtite gasket would be preferred for me.

I'm with you. I run the composite gaskets or expensive MLS gaskets from Cometic when using aluminum heads.

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by 47topless

I would proceed with caution from this point forward. I learned the hard way that, cranking the engine, with water in the cylinders, will result in a deadly compression reading in the cylinders. Deadly, that is, to the starter, ring gear, associated ignition components,etc etc etc. The severely enhanced compression, in these "water" cylinders places a new, tremendous (well beyond specs), load on the starter to operate and eventually the starter, and it's supporting cast, will fail.
Looks like you're doing it right. Good luck.
Phil

The MOST serious result of a hydraulic lock-up like this is usually a bent connecting rod and/or damaged rod bearings.

Coop


.

[busmania]

I’ll be watching very very close before starting to make sure my issue is solved before I actually start it.

[Ggmac]

I would swap heads left to right bank and see if it follows the one that had water .

[busmania]

Good call. I will do that especially because I actually intended for the heads to be on opposite sides as that’s how I measured the valve clearances. But when I put it all together I put them on the wrong side than intended.

[flatjack9]

I hope the sealer does help you. Personally I have never used a sealer on head gaskets. I seldom use sealer on any gasket unless it is to hold it in place.

[Don T]

I believe a little optimism is required here. Perhaps we are overthinking this?? Could it have been as simple as water flowing from the gauge port, in a pattern such that much more went into #6 than the other cylinders? If this happened and your attempt to blow it out of #6 resulted in a swirling pattern in the cylinder pushing the water in circles rather than blowing it out?? Could piston position or valve position effect the attempted blowout? I have noted that overthinking tends to happen as we get older; perhaps in a attempt to make up for our underthinking we did in our youth. It seems all the other likely culprits have been checked out?

[busmania]

Don, that is very possible and I am hopeful that is the case! I’ll have new gaskets in hand tomorrow and I’ll let y’all know.

[busmania]

Well, I am hoping it is fixed. I think it was a combination of problems. I also changed the oil to make sure there was no water in it and luckily, there was not so I don't think any got past the rings.

Newb alert....

I think the biggest issue is my studs were not installed all the way. I thought I read to put the studs in finger tight. Well, I am not sure I got them all the way that tight and some still had a few threads showing. This time I snugged them down to about 5 ft pounds. Hope I don't regret that. I read some torque the studs, some don't. I also think not having the copper sealer contributed of course but I think the biggest issue was the studs.

I put coolant in it overnight. I filled it just to the temp sender hole. It held strong over night and it does not appear anything has leaked or seeped away. The level is exactly the same this morning as it was last night.

Hopefully I'll get this damn thing fired this week. Thanks for the help everyone.

[kurt v]

I don't understand putting the studs in finger tight ( unless you have king kong fingers),i use no 2 permatex and snug them up with vise grip, never took the studs out with my fingers, last set came out with torch, bees wax and 14 in pipe wrench.
good luch kurt

[busmania]

I don’t know I think I remember reading someone saying to put them in finger tight so they don’t bottom out. Regardless, lesson learned! I tightened them by welding an old head nut to an old stud screwed on with just a few threads of the nut showing. Then I could screw that onto the stud and tighten to 5 pounds. Worked well.

[Pete]

The proper way to install studs in a flathead Ford.
Tap the holes with a standard tap using a drill press, mill or tapping fixture to keep the tap straight. You want a thread that is the same size as it came from the factory and clean bare metal. Thread chasers and undersize taps will not leave a standard size thread. Rust and scale left in the threads will adversley affect the torque reading.
Coat the course thread on the stud with black RTV or other NON HARDENING sealer.
Screw it in with fingers till it bottoms and then BACK IT UP 1/2 TURN.
Let them sit for an hour before installing heads.

When installing the head nuts, use hard high nuts and hard washers. Lube the thread, both sides of the washer and the under side of the nut with ARP oil, hypoid gear oil, Power Punch or STP.
Many people do not use hard washers with iron heads but you will get more accurate torque readings with them rather than let the nut dig into the cast iron.

[solidaxle]

I was always told don't use a regular tap. Use a "thread chaser tap".

[busmania]

Well shit. A little frustrated. I switched sides of the head. As per above, I put everything back together and filled with water. All seemed fine for several hours (no water in cylinders) so I decided to try to crank it again to build pressure with plugs out. Well, now the side (1-4) is puking water as I crank it (I only cranked a few times) out of two of the plug holes. I can only think it can be the copper gaskets. I have the composite gaskets on the way but I worry they are not thick enough for my valve clearances. I will check clearances again before I install them and try again.

But I am stumped. you can see the copper spray is spread even on both the head and block, no areas where it clearly didn't seal. There is one area that is suspect where the gasket was not stuck to the head between the cylinders. The head is flat, the block is flat, studs installed again with sealer. Later today I will fill the head with water and see if it leaks but again, I really don't think it is a head or block issue.

Kind of over it....but at least now I have the head torque sequence memorized!

[Willit Stop]

Internal intake crack?

[busmania]

As in intake manifold?