Spoiled by my Model A....

[Special Coupe Frank]

Bit of history...

I got my first Model A in August of 2009, finally taking delivery in Jan of '10.

My first time actually driving one was the day I drove mine home.

Since then, I have put just over 8,000 miles on my resurrected, but un-restored 1928 Special Coupe.

She now shows 88,000 miles. Had the head off in April of 2010 to replace a failed head-gasket (previous mechanic somewhere along the way dispensed with the ignition cable clamp, and the gasket failed between # 3 & 4.). At that time, I cleaned the carbon out, and noted all stock Ford valves, and stock Ford script pistons, stock bore.

In my 8,000 miles of driving the A, I've dealt with a smattering of minor issues - worn brakes, overheating (new radiator fixed that), headlights (cheapo-repros and their lousy connectors), etc. Fairly normal stuff for an 80 year-old "used car".

That said, she's almost always started and run, even at -2* F, and only left me stranded twice - once due to failed cam gear, and the second time due to getting swamped during a monsoon rain and cheapo repro ignition cable whose soft-plastic insulating sleeve at the dizzy deformed and allowed the contact to shift and short-out.

It's been one of my most reliable vehicles, ever.

Nothing that has failed has been a very deep mystery.

Wish I could say that for my daily-driver 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, with the 4.0 inline six (descended from the AMC 232/258).

Last week, it started running progressively worse, mis-firing, bucking, having less and less power. I assumed fouled plugs.

Had to wait a couple days for time to work on it; finally went to move it around back to the garage, and it barely made it to the end of the block, and died. Wouldn't restart... cranked & cranked, and sounded like it had lost compression on a couple of cylinders... seemed like it had thrown a timing chain.

So, I replaced the timing chain; old one was worn and sloppy, but did not appear to have actually jumped-time. Once the timing case was buttoned-up, I decided to fire it up and see how things were...

No improvement. So now, I replace the plugs.

No improvement. Replace the cap and rotor.

No improvement. Replace spark plug wires.

No improvement. Symptoms are: hard starting, won't run below 2000 RPM, runs excessively rich.

Got out my Actron OBD-II code reader... only codes were "vehicle speed sensor" and "cam position sensor". Humph. "Cam position Sensor" ?

Well, the closest thing my vehicle has (distributor ignition) is the distributor module. Replace that.

No improvement. WTF ?

Borrow an OBD-II hook-up & software for the computer, take my lap-top out to the car, and spend 45 minutes trying to figure-out what's what.

Still getting only two fault codes: "vehicle speed sensor", and now, "camshaft position sensor" has been replaced by "running rich, left bank".

"Running rich ?!!!" Hell - my NOSE told me that two days ago !!!!

Decided to switch-over to "Real-time analysis" of vehicle systems - tach, manifold vacuum, coolant temp, intake air temp, spark advance, etc.

Discovered that with the engine running at 2300 RPM (stalls below 2000), it is only reading 20* of spark advance... way too little.

So, now it's looking like the crankshaft position sensor may be the culprit... have to run a couple of VOM checks before I crawl to the back side of the bell-housing.

The Model A is so simple and straight-forward; owning and driving one has ruined me for modern cars...

Thanks for letting me vent...

SC Frank

[jr-41ford]

Frank, it doesn't sound like venting to me, maybe just a little bragging.

I've got a couple of pre-48 Ford hot rods and we've been driving the wheels off our 2nd Model A we bought this year. I really enjoy driving the Model A and next month, it just may become my daily driver.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Maybe bragging about the A, but kind of embarrassed about not being able to fix my Jeep !!!!! ( If there's a brag, it's about a car that's still going after 82 years, even if it is a little tired...)

Winter's comin' and I can't subject the Ford to PA's heavy diet of rock salt and brine...

[Gary WA]

Sounds like you need another "A" to drive in the winter months!!

[Tom Wesenberg]

Still getting only two fault codes: "vehicle speed sensor", and now, "camshaft position sensor" has been replaced by "running rich, left bank".

How do you get a left bank on an inline 6?

BTW, my 1999 Olds 88 still has a problem I haven't figured out. The Model A sure ran good today though.

[Special Coupe Frank]

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I'm not sure I could bring myself to do it here in snow country Gary... you even think "snow" and they get out the salt-spreaders and brine sprayers...

I drove my A through its first winter under my ownership, "just to do it", and it performed great; then in the spring and summer, I saw the damage from just one season's salt...

Wish we were like Washington and Oregon where salt goes on food, not the roads, and car bodies last for decades...

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

Still getting only two fault codes: "vehicle speed sensor", and now, "camshaft position sensor" has been replaced by "running rich, left bank".

How do you get a left bank on an inline 6?

BTW, my 1999 Olds 88 still has a problem I haven't figured out. The Model A sure ran good today though.

I asked myself the same thing... I guess one read-out fits both sixes and V-8s !

[Fred K-OR]

Originally Posted by Special Coupe Frank

I'm not sure I could bring myself to do it here in snow country Gary... you even think "snow" and they get out the salt-spreaders and brine sprayers...

I drove my A through its first winter under my ownership, "just to do it", and it performed great; then in the spring and summer, I saw the damage from just one season's salt...

Wish we were like Washington and Oregon where salt goes on food, not the roads, and car bodies last for decades...

But in Oregon is rains most of the winter. With a open car like a huckster, it is hard to keep dry and warm.

[Logan]

Well you're lucky it's just a crank shaft position sensor. I replaced one on my truck a few months back. They're only about $30 and takes 5 minutes to change out. Mine failed on a 2005 ram, but I have my truck super chipped so that's why mine went out.

[Special Coupe Frank]

Hopefully the CPS will be the end of it, Logan... the worst part of the job is actually getting to the bugger...

SC Frank

[Aok]

I know what you mean about newer cars. While my problem was easy to figure out , leaking power steering hose in a 98 Taurus. Spent about 12 hours replacing it because its front wheel drive no room to work had take off front inner fender, fan belt and try to figure out how to snake in about 6' of preformed tubing.

[Kevin in NJ]

Imagine having something draining the battery on a modern computer car.

The car has a master power distribution in the trunk. The car does not go to sleep for 2 hours after the car is locked. So to troubleshoot you need like 20 current reading VOM's and then be locked in the trunk for 2 hours waiting for the car to go to sleep to find the module that leaks too much current to stop the battery from going dead every night.

Yes that was done on a newer Mercedes.

How about the main computer board is not reading a sensor properly so it set the check engine light and the car can not pass inspection cause the light is lit for a non-emissions sensor problem. So a new computer is installed but does not work because it will not marry with the security computer. Off to dealer and $7000 and 2 new computers later to turn off the check engine light so it can pass inspection.

Then there is replacing the ignition key decoder computer to find the door switches no longer responded properly. You know head rest up makes seat go down. It was supposed to be the correct computer.


The new cars can parallel park themselves. This means they control the throttle, steering, transmission and brakes. What could possibly go wrong?
The first production drive by wire car is being brought on to the market- do you feel safer?

[Special Coupe Frank]

"The first production drive by wire car is being brought on to the market- do you feel safer? "

Hell-no!!!

It's all been down-hill since Charlie Kettering and his damned self-starter !

[Tom Wesenberg]

"It's all been down-hill since Charlie Kettering and his damned self-starter!"


That's right, and what was wrong with hot tube ignition?

[FordMike]

I read the whole first post and thought "What the heck is he talking about sensors in a model A engine!?" but I missed the line about that being on your Jeep haha! Glad to hear your A is still going strong! I hope your done with your winter driving, we don't need anymore model As rotted up to the door handles in Pa, there's enough as it is!

[John Duden]

i had a 1994 Jeep gran cherokee larado. BEAUTIFUL CAR! NO rust onywhere!! from a minnesota car, interrior was mint body was stright and ran great, It had a transmisson problem and was cooking it, i bought it for $500 and another one that the crankshaft had broke for $100, it has prevously had a new transmission in stalled.........what can i do with these???.....swapped the trannyes and then it would not start!!!??? Worked and worked on it and the flywheel sensor came unpluged, so it was telling the computer that it was not cranking, so don't give it fire or gas. Pluged her back in and she fired right up!
I sold her for $1500,.....only thing that was wrong with it was the abs did not work,...tore it out wippin sh*tties in the back yard on the glaze ice.
Man how i miss that car!!

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Model A's ARE VERY dependable. Maybe I'll sell my truck & just have the Model A! As a kid, we put a kazillion "TOURING" miles on them dudes! Common small parts were available at gas stations, and sometimes even at small country stores. Wooten's, our small town grocery even stocked fast moving small parts, but ONLY for Model A's! (The rack was right beside the HUGE old brass cash register that made amazing sounds, R-R-UPH-KAPLING!) Bill W.

[700rpm]

I sold my 93 Miata and went to driving my Model A's full time. I can't fix the modern cars. I use my wife's 2007 Accord if I need to get somewhere in a hurry, or travel really long distances (over 100 miles in a day, except tours). Traffic scares me sometimes, but I love driving the A's.

And Fred, I thought the reason you got the 29 coupe was so you could drive in the Oregon rain!

[29ModelA]

CPS is a very common problem on that engine, I wish you had posted earlier, I would have told you to start with that. It can cause other trouble codes too if I recall correctly.


My other vehicles are jeeps.

[P.S.]

My other non-work car is a 2006 Jeep. Whenever something goes wrong, the plan is "Take it to the dealer". I was one of the lucky ones that ended up with the short-lived Jeep "Lifetime warranty". The bad news is, you have to have it serviced by a Jeep dealer. The good news is, you don't have to pay for it.

Can you imagine what would have happened if Ford offered a "lifetime warranty" on Model As??

Well, for you guys that can fix your own car, you are probably a lot better off with the Model A, that's true. But, 99% of the population these days apparently cannot even change a tire, so they would be lost with the "high maintenance" Model A. They're better off with a modern car that they can have towed to a dealer who can plug a computer into it before throwing high priced parts after part at it until it is "fixed".

If every car owner had even half of the abilities most of the people here on this forum have, there would probably be no such thing as Jiffy Lube.

I just changed the oil in my A again yesterday. It was actually a pleasure to be under the car doing the routine L.O. (notice I didn't say L.O.F.). Usually do oil change and lube in the Model A in like 20 minutes if I'm going real slow. I'll bet most of you guys can do it in less than half that time. Now, imagine the average car owner today, trying to service their average douchemobile.... Ha ha! Their idea of 'servicing' their car is reading the newspaper in the Jiffy Lube customer lounge!!