Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Early V8 (1932-53)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-05-2021, 07:22 PM   #1
frnkeore
Senior Member
 
frnkeore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 782
Default Prony Brake Ideas

This is my concept of a simple Prony Brake Dyno.

It's probably a little over kill to use a 1 1/2 ton disk for a 150 HP engine but, it would be trouble free, I think to at least 250 HP.

The way I drew it, is with a screw, to activate the MC. That way you could leave it will doing initial break in and it would make it easier to hold a torque reading.

Again, with this type of brake, the HP, uses the formula, Torque x RPM Divided by 5252.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Prony Brake (2).jpg (37.3 KB, 102 views)
__________________
Frank
'35 Ford Model 51
'48 Ford F3
'54 Ford Tudor Mainline

Last edited by frnkeore; 01-06-2021 at 01:53 AM.
frnkeore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-05-2021, 10:20 PM   #2
GB SISSON
Senior Member
 
GB SISSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Orcas Island Washington
Posts: 4,843
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

OK, well this answers a lot of questions. But does the master cyl work on a 12" lever? I'm thinking so. Does the flywheel weigh 1 1/2 tons? I bet the engine idles real smooth at 150 rpms. Personally I wanted to just add a load to my engine stand for proper ring break in and not care much about how much horsepower my puny 221 cu in stock mill with new rings and valves was putting out. Your whole setup would work really well for me. I have 2 beater, untitled '47 truck frames I can cut off as far back as needed. Let's get started!
__________________
Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)
GB SISSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 01-05-2021, 10:25 PM   #3
cas3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sw minnesota
Posts: 4,541
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

GB, i like your oak plank better...less maintenance.
cas3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 12:07 AM   #4
51 MERC-CT
Senior Member
 
51 MERC-CT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: East Hartford, Ct
Posts: 5,898
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

Just wondering if an automatic transmission plus torque converter with output shaft locked would provide enough load for run-in purposes.
__________________
DON'T RECALL DOING SOMETHING FOR MYSELF BASED ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LIKES OR DISLIKES
51 MERC-CT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 01:37 AM   #5
frnkeore
Senior Member
 
frnkeore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 782
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by GB SISSON View Post
OK, well this answers a lot of questions. But does the master cyl work on a 12" lever? I'm thinking so. Does the flywheel weigh 1 1/2 tons? I bet the engine idles real smooth at 150 rpms. Personally I wanted to just add a load to my engine stand for proper ring break in and not care much about how much horsepower my puny 221 cu in stock mill with new rings and valves was putting out. Your whole setup would work really well for me. I have 2 beater, untitled '47 truck frames I can cut off as far back as needed. Let's get started!
The lever (or screw) pushing against the master cyl, only supply's line pressure to the caliper and that only loads the disk brake rotor. The advantage of the screw, is it will hold a steady pressure for a extended time. If a lever is used, it can be as long as you want. It only supply's PSI at the caliper.

I'm not sure what your saying about a 1 1/2 tons. I was saying that the disk brake rotor would come from a 1 1/2 ton truck, for it increased capacity over a car rotor.

I brighten the drawing, to make it easier to read. I also forgot to add a throttle lever to the panel, for the carb.
__________________
Frank
'35 Ford Model 51
'48 Ford F3
'54 Ford Tudor Mainline

Last edited by frnkeore; 01-06-2021 at 01:58 AM.
frnkeore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 11:18 AM   #6
GB SISSON
Senior Member
 
GB SISSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Orcas Island Washington
Posts: 4,843
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
OK, a rotor from a big truck. I get it. Thanks!
__________________
Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)
GB SISSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 11:48 AM   #7
tubman
Senior Member
 
tubman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys
Posts: 10,259
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

I am trying to ignore this subject because if I'm not careful, it'll get me into another project that I don't have time for. Given that, I was thinking big truck brake too.

The bad thing is that I already have an electronic high capacity load cell I'm not using.
tubman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 12:00 PM   #8
Ziggster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Ottawa, ON
Posts: 840
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

I remember a long time ago, one of business partners of the company I worked for built a water brake to put a load on the small diesel engine powerpack he was designing for Class 8 Trucks to generate heat to heat the cab as well as generate electricity.
Ziggster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 05:52 PM   #9
5851a
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: NE Iowa
Posts: 1,661
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

I have a neighbor that likes to smolder grass and leaves when the wind is blowing my direction. I have pondered long and hard about getting one of those airboat props and cages. It wound be perfect for breaking in an engine.
5851a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 07:38 PM   #10
Jim in Wisconsin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 247
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

It seems like that brake rotor would get really hot, like red hot. Maybe you could run a water jacket around it and make coffee.
Jim in Wisconsin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 09:25 PM   #11
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,373
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

In the late 50's our company got involved in building quarter midget engines and needed a dyno to develop them. There was nothing commercially available so we built one using a V12 Allison coolant pump for a brake. It was a total loss system with just a garden hose for water supply. We never did have an engine on it that got it hot. The engines we were working with made around 25 hp.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 09:28 PM   #12
cas3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: sw minnesota
Posts: 4,541
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

all these inventive thoughts, but you could just hook it up to a generator and sell the power back to the elec. co. and make AOC happy too!
cas3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 10:24 PM   #13
alanwoodieman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: upstate SC
Posts: 2,962
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

my Dad in the Navy during WW2. check the engine/dyno
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BTG_Flathead_Dyno[1].jpg (65.2 KB, 48 views)
alanwoodieman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 10:27 PM   #14
GB SISSON
Senior Member
 
GB SISSON's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Orcas Island Washington
Posts: 4,843
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5851a View Post
I have a neighbor that likes to smolder grass and leaves when the wind is blowing my direction. I have pondered long and hard about getting one of those airboat props and cages. It wound be perfect for breaking in an engine.
Easiest idea of them all ! I have an outboard motor from 1926 that really puts a strain on it's two stroke ,2 cyl opposed air cooled motor. I have run it at the antique steam, gas, threshing meet at Lynden many times. I have two Vietnam era belly tanks about 21' long... A catamaran with a v8 prop engine? And what's a 'cage'? BTW, not my first rodeo with a prop. At 18 years of age I built this ice craft with a 1 1/2 hp briggs. The police kicked me off the ice with a bullhorn, because of endangerment to all the skaters....,and it was the town's water supply. No gas engines. Sheesh, spoil all the fun.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg aerothrust.jpg (94.9 KB, 39 views)
File Type: jpg misspent icecraft.jpg (50.7 KB, 39 views)
__________________
Owner/Operator of 'Jailbar Ranch' on the side of Mt. Pickett. Current stable consists of 1946 1/2 ton pickup turned woodie wagon with FH V8, 1947 Tonner Pickup (red) mostly stock with exception of a cummins 6at turbo diesel, 1946 Tonner Pickup (green) with 226 cu in 6 cyl flathead, 1979 Toyota landcruiser wagon, completely encased in 1947 Ford Jailbar sheet metal. Ok, cornbinder rear fenders..... 'Rusty ol' floorboards, hot on their feet' (Alan Jackson)

Last edited by GB SISSON; 01-06-2021 at 10:36 PM.
GB SISSON is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-06-2021, 11:30 PM   #15
1952henry
Senior Member
 
1952henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 1,611
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

Not sure of flywheel weight, but there is one at Rollag, MN that is used constantly to measure both PTO and belt HP of gas, diesel, and steam tractors during the three days of the steam threshers reunion. The wheel is run in a band that can be continually tightened for resistance. The lower part is in a water bath. Watched a Case 110 steamer get belted up. HP was 125, torque calculated to over 4,000 ft lbs.

At night a steamer is belted up and really made to shake the ground with its draft. Then, grocery bags stuffed with sawdust and ground corncobs are fed into the firebox. Sparks are belched 30-40 feet into the air, it is quite the show.

I wish I could have seen Kory Anderson's 150 Case belted to the brake in 2019, the year he debuted it. Only 9 of these steamers were built. He got the blueprints from CaseIH, and proceeded to build one from scratch. The only surviving piece to be found was the remains of an original boiler.
__________________
I dig coal, which provides motivation for EVs.

Last edited by 1952henry; 01-07-2021 at 11:51 AM.
1952henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 02:31 AM   #16
frnkeore
Senior Member
 
frnkeore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 782
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim in Wisconsin View Post
It seems like that brake rotor would get really hot, like red hot. Maybe you could run a water jacket around it and make coffee.
As I said in my initial response, on the other thread, you can spray water into the center of the rotor.

I checked the heat transfer rate and the heat transfer coefficient of water is about350 times that of air.
__________________
Frank
'35 Ford Model 51
'48 Ford F3
'54 Ford Tudor Mainline
frnkeore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 06:38 AM   #17
john in illinois
Senior Member
 
john in illinois's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Illinois
Posts: 2,181
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1952henry View Post
Not sure of flywheel weight, but there is one at Rollag, MN that is used constantly to measure both PTO and belt HP of gas, diesel, and steam tractors during the three days of the steam threshers reunion. The wheel is run in a band that can be continually tightened for resistance. The lower part is in a water bath. Watched a Case 110 steamer get belted up. HP was 125, torque calculated to over 4,000 ft lbs.

At night a steamer is belted up and really made to shake the ground with its draft. Then, grocery bags stuffed with sawdust and ground corncobs are fed into the firebox. Sparks are belched 30-40 feet into the air, it is quite the show.

I wish I could have seen Kory Anderson's 150 Case belted to the brake in 2019, the year he debuted it. Only 9 of these steamers were built. He got the blueprints from CaseIH, and preceeded to build one from scratch. The only surviving piece to be found was the remains of an original boiler.

here is a video of that tractor. I have never seen a plow that wide.

https://truebluesam.blogspot.com/202...-fires-up.html

John
__________________
Welcome each day
john in illinois is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 07:23 AM   #18
1952henry
Senior Member
 
1952henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 1,611
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

Thanks for the video post. I have seen it in person, just not on the brake. The story is impressive. His goal from childhood was to have one of these extinct tractors. I dont think he is much past 40.
__________________
I dig coal, which provides motivation for EVs.
1952henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 08:29 AM   #19
RKS.PA
Senior Member
 
RKS.PA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Marana, AZ
Posts: 1,192
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

John, that was amazing!!! I tried to listen when he said how many "bottoms" that plow had and couldn't quite make it out. Think my maximum plowing experience with our John Deere's was maybe a two bottom by comparison!!


That is an also an amazing project, considering they had to make everything from scratch, based on the Case blueprint.


Thank you for posting!!!
RKS.PA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2021, 08:40 AM   #20
1952henry
Senior Member
 
1952henry's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 1,611
Default Re: Prony Brake Ideas

36 bottom plow. It is amazing to watch it steam along in person.

This is not an advertisement. Just a link to the industry he created to build the Case. Now it makes him a living. Kind of like a modern day Henry Ford.

https://anderson-industries.com/
__________________
I dig coal, which provides motivation for EVs.

Last edited by 1952henry; 01-07-2021 at 08:45 AM.
1952henry is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:02 AM.