Don"t touch that bolt

[bwaii64]

I was searching for timing procedures for the oil pump gear to get the slot in the right place so distributor would line up. THEN I realized it doesn't matter where the slot is because the distributor cam is loose and you can put it where ever you need. (where's the smiley face with a palm smacking the forehead???)

BUT

In the process, I read you should not touch the bolt that I thought held the oil pump in place. Is that bolt with a jam nut in the block near the oil pump not to hold the pump in place?

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...+oil+pump+slot

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[Vin-tin]

Originally Posted by bwaii64

I was searching for timing procedures for the oil pump gear to get the slot in the right place so distributor would line up. THEN I realized it doesn't matter where the slot is because the distributor cam is loose and you can put it where ever you need. (where's the smiley face with a palm smacking the forehead???)

BUT

In the process, I read you should not touch the bolt that I thought held the oil pump in place. Is that bolt with a jam nut in the block near the oil pump not to hold the pump in place?

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...+oil+pump+slot

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If the bolt with jam nut you're referring to is on the "head", that one holds your distributer in. The other bolt down near the oil pan should just be a "plug" to close the hole up. The oil pan actually is what holds the oil pump up into the block. There is a special bolt people use in that lower hole to that replaces that plug. It holds the oil pump in place while dropping the oil pan. Remove and plug when pan is re-installed. Others will probably chime in.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by bwaii64

In the process, I read you should not touch the bolt that I thought held the oil pump in place. Is that bolt with a jam nut in the block near the oil pump not to hold the pump in place?

On the top of the block there is a bolt with a jam nut that holds the distributor in place.


Further down near the oil pan is a pipe plug with no jam nut.

[Brian T]

In the process, I read you should not touch the bolt that I thought held the oil pump in place. Is that bolt with a jam nut in the block near the oil pump not to hold the pump in place?

http://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showth...+oil+pump+slot

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[/QUOTE]

If there is a bolt in the block just above the pan rail, before you remove the bolt you should make sure that the spring isn't missing that holds the pump, if its missing the pump will fall down causing severe damage.

[J Franklin]

The spring needs to be on the bottom of the pump, and the pump needs to float on that spring because the assembly as Ford engineered it acted as the pressure relief. Don't use a bolt where the oil plug is.

[SeaSlugs]

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Originally Posted by J Franklin

The spring needs to be on the bottom of the pump, and the pump needs to float on that spring because the assembly as Ford engineered it acted as the pressure relief. Don't use a bolt where the oil plug is.

ohhh i wondered why it had that setup...learn something everyday!

[700rpm]

Mike used the correct term. It is a plug, and it has a pipe thread. Replacing it with or using a bolt or screw can damage the threads in the block, but "touching it" (whatever that means) doesn't hurt anything.

I've never had a pump fall down; if it's loose it just drops with the pan, and Unless you've got it on a lift, and it should happen to momentarily stick when the pan is dropped, I don't see how severe damage could occur, and even that seems unlikely.

[Brian T]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Mike used the correct term. It is a plug, and it has a pipe thread. Replacing it with or using a bolt or screw can damage the threads in the block, but "touching it" (whatever that means) doesn't hurt anything.

I've never had a pump fall down; if it's loose it just drops with the pan, and Unless you've got it on a lift, and it should happen to momentarily stick when the pan is dropped, I don't see how severe damage could occur, and even that seems unlikely.

Ray,
There was a change to the way the pump spring was retained --- SB Feb 30 , the reason was Ford were concerned that if an oil pan was replaced and the spring which originally was clipped to the oil pan (not the pump) and forgotten, the lock bolt once removed, the pump falls down resulting no oil pressure or worse tangled up in the crankshaft.
Only the plug as a pipe thread, a fine thread bolt can be used snugged up lightly.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

The spring needs to be on the bottom of the pump, and the pump needs to float on that spring because the assembly as Ford engineered it acted as the pressure relief. Don't use a bolt where the oil plug is.

I'm scratching my head on this one. Can you explain further?

I can't see of a way the pump would go over pressure and need relief. It basically pumps oil under very low pressure to the valve chamber. From there, the oil flows out the "window" on to the timing gears and/or out the oil drain back pipe back to the pan. There is no restriction that I can see that would build pressure. Under what circumstances is too much pressure obtained?

If it does for some reason go over pressure and the pump drops and depresses the spring, where does the oil then go? If it drops down too far, won't it become disconnected from the drive pawl for an instant, then try to reengage with much clatter and busting of parts?

[Benson]

Someone sells a threaded fitting that screws into the lower hole which has an internal thread and bolt for the purpose of retaining the oil pump ONLY when removing / installing the oil pan.

If you choose to use this device DO NOT tighten the bolt too much ... the engine casting is thin in this area and might break if too tight.

Old Fart Society: charter member,

[DaWizard]

Originally Posted by Benson

Someone sells a threaded fitting that screws into the lower hole which has an internal thread and bolt for the purpose of retaining the oil pump when removing / installing the oil pan.

If you choose to use this device DO NOT tighten the bolt too much ... the engine casting is thin in this area and might break if too tight.

Old Fart Society: charter member,

Thanks, I was going to ask if I could make my own just like that since I have a brass plug and who knows what kind of screws layin around to do it with.

Da Machinist Wizard

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Brian T

Ray,
There was a change to the way the pump spring was retained --- SB Feb 30 , the reason was Ford were concerned that if an oil pan was replaced and the spring which originally was clipped to the oil pan (not the pump) and forgotten, the lock bolt once removed, the pump falls down resulting no oil pressure or worse tangled up in the crankshaft.
Only the plug as a pipe thread, a fine thread bolt can be used snugged up lightly.

Brian, I am familiar with that service bulletin, but it says nothing about a locking bolt. As Vince noted, Ford never used a locking bolt for the oil pump on an A.

[J Franklin]

Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp

I'm scratching my head on this one. Can you explain further?

I can't see of a way the pump would go over pressure and need relief. It basically pumps oil under very low pressure to the valve chamber. From there, the oil flows out the "window" on to the timing gears and/or out the oil drain back pipe back to the pan. There is no restriction that I can see that would build pressure. Under what circumstances is too much pressure obtained?

If it does for some reason go over pressure and the pump drops and depresses the spring, where does the oil then go?

Thirty wt oil in the early morning is quite viscous The pump tries to pump lots of oil and sometimes needs a relief. the oil spills back into the pan. This is why most oil pumps incorporate a spring loaded relief valve. Something would have to already be seriously wrong to press hard enough to uncouple the pump.

When I place the pump I use a piece of paper to shim the pump to block and it holds the pump up while replacing the pan.

[Brian T]

Originally Posted by 700rpm

Brian, I am familiar with that service bulletin, but it says nothing about a locking bolt. As Vince noted, Ford never used a locking bolt for the oil pump on an A.

Your correct, NOBODY on this thread including myself said that FORD used a locking bolt to hold the pump in place, the original poster stated there was a bolt he believes was holding the oil pump in place, I had the same thing when I got my truck, and was advised by someone on this board not to remove it until I was sure the pump retainer spring was in place, if the spring is missing the pump falls down and can cause severe damage, yes and can hit the crankshaft.
Some on this Forum have opinions that are outright there way and no other, and are rude to boot, absolutely no reflection on you Ray, Happy New Year.

[Tom Wesenberg]

And be sure to check the oil pump spring for any signs of rust or pits. Replace it if any pits or rust is found.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

Thirty wt oil in the early morning is quite viscous The pump tries to pump lots of oil and sometimes needs a relief. the oil spills back into the pan. This is why most oil pumps incorporate a spring loaded relief valve. Something would have to already be seriously wrong to press hard enough to uncouple the pump.

It looks to me like the oil is pumped to the rectangular slot near the top of the shaft then travels up to the valve chamber via the groove in the shaft. The pump would still have to pump oil the same distance dropped or not dropped. I don't see how this would be a "relief" for the pump. If it does drop, how does the oil travel back to the pan? It doesn't look like there is a path to do so.

I'm sure there is an explanation, I just can't see it yet.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Dick Steinkamp

It looks to me like the oil is pumped to the rectangular slot near the top of the shaft then travels up to the valve chamber via the groove in the shaft. The pump would still have to pump oil the same distance dropped or not dropped. I don't see how this would be a "relief" for the pump. If it does drop, how does the oil travel back to the pan? It doesn't look like there is a path to do so.

I'm sure there is an explanation, I just can't see it yet.

What the............... Is that a Philips screw I see holding the cover in place?

[Joat1000]

Originally Posted by Brian T

Ray,
There was a change to the way the pump spring was retained --- SB Feb 30 , the reason was Ford were concerned that if an oil pan was replaced and the spring which originally was clipped to the oil pan (not the pump) and forgotten, the lock bolt once removed, the pump falls down resulting no oil pressure or worse tangled up in the crankshaft.
Only the plug as a pipe thread, a fine thread bolt can be used snugged up lightly.

I wondered why mine had the spring in the pan, something else that I learned on the Barn that I hadn't seen anywhere else.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Brian T

Your correct, NOBODY on this thread including myself said that FORD used a locking bolt to hold the pump in place, the original poster stated there was a bolt he believes was holding the oil pump in place, I had the same thing when I got my truck, and was advised by someone on this board not to remove it until I was sure the pump retainer spring was in place, if the spring is missing the pump falls down and can cause severe damage, yes and can hit the crankshaft.
Some on this Forum have opinions that are outright there way and no other, and are rude to boot, absolutely no reflection on you Ray, Happy New Year.

It seems I have very little to contribute here. Sometimes the written word in a forum is not the best or clearest way to communicate. I need to step away for a while.

[bwaii64]

Wow. You guys really get into it. what a passionate group!

Yes the plug has been replaced with a regular bolt and nut - though I didn't realize it had been a plug. It was holding the pump in place. 1) the mechanic that dismounted it said so and 2) there are bolt bite marks on the flat that looks like it was made to hold the pump in place.

it will be backed off or replaced when re-installed.