The Ford Barn

rjlester · 12-02-2023, 11:17 AM

Hey Guys,

I have a complete used PS system from a 54 Ford to convert my car to power steering. Bought a new seal for the ram, but I have a question about removing the old seal. I did find this link helpful:

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...+steering+seal

I was able to easily take out the snap ring, then the scraper. Now there appears to be a clear nylon ring holding the seal in place. I'm not worried about destroying the seal to remove it, but how critical is this nylon ring? I suspect it will also be messed up when I remove it, and the seal. Is it just a spacer of some kind?

The new seal is 1 inch outside diameter, 5/8 inside.

KULTULZ · 12-02-2023, 12:47 PM

Read Thru This - https://www.stangerssite.com/CanIPowerCylinder.html

If the inner seal needs to be replaced, the housing has to be cut and re-welded.

ALSO -

https://www.larescorp.com/toolbox/sk...-power-assist/

And an excellent write-up by one of the esteemed members here -

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...wer%20steering

In short, maybe consider having it professionally done and not buying a BOX STORE EXCHANGE incl FORTUNE COOKIE.

rjlester · 12-02-2023, 01:05 PM

Ok, I see what is happening here. I'm just attempting to change the "end seal" and there are more seals inside that require cutting the cylinder apart?

Maybe I should leave this alone for now. I will rebuild the pump and the control valve, I've rebuilt a control valve before and the pump is pretty simple.

If the ram leaks after it's installed I'll worry about it then. This car is just a driver so as long as it's not dripping and leaving puddles I'll be fine.

The rod looks absolutely pristine so that gives me some confidence.

I take it a typical hydraulic shop can cut it open and change the seals? They have built three sets of hoses for me so far for other cars and did good work.

KULTULZ · 12-02-2023, 01:15 PM

Quote:

I take it a typical hydraulic shop can cut it open and change the seals?

If she leaks after install, I would send it off to a specialty shop to know it was done correctly and offers a warranty.

But that is just me being CDO (correct alphabetical order of OCD).

Are you aware of all the different steering bushing kits that should be replaced also while under there?

Also, while everything is hanging, read the section on inspecting/adjusting the steering box.

rjlester · 12-02-2023, 02:01 PM

I've ordered a bushing kit for the ram, the idler arm seems surprisingly tight so I'll leave it for now and see how it steers when assembled.

The steering box I adjusted a bit a couple years ago, didn't need much adjustment at all. This car steers straight down the road and has no wander at all. I changed the idler arm two years ago thinking it was loose, the new one had the same amount of play and THEN I learned there is a spec on the amount of "slop" it should have lol.

Like you said, I will send it to a specialty shop if it does leak. I have a few options in the area, the closest shop does a lot of classic car hoses and such already. Wouldn't be surprised if they can cut open the ram and change the seals.

KULTULZ · 12-06-2023, 02:32 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rjlester

Ok, I see what is happening here. I'm just attempting to change the "end seal" and there are more seals inside that require cutting the cylinder apart?

Maybe I should leave this alone for now. I will rebuild the pump and the control valve, I've rebuilt a control valve before and the pump is pretty simple.

If the ram leaks after it's installed I'll worry about it then. This car is just a driver so as long as it's not dripping and leaving puddles I'll be fine.

Allow me to expound on this ...

There is a large main seal on the other end of the rod assy you see that controls/holds pressure on the rod from the pump. The end seals (where you are working) are there to protect the shaft/seal as it moves in and out of the cylinder assy (road dirt, etc.).

If that end is leaking, install the seal kit you have. If the cylinder refuses to work correctly with good pump pressure, that is when you would be concerned about the inner main seal.

I don't think FORD offered the inner seal as as a service part as the cylinder was replaced at that stage.

I have photo(s) but they will not show large enough to help.

Merc Cruzer · 12-06-2023, 03:07 PM

What car are you putting the PS system in? I think if you just replace the outer sea on the ram you should be good to go. The idler arm will be ridged, it helps return the steering back to center.

rjlester · 12-06-2023, 08:55 PM

Steering system is going into my 54 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 4 door. It looks pretty much like what you have in the picture, I'm just painting everything right now.

I did order a pair of bushings for the idler arm. You mentioned its ridged, is there a special way to install/orient the bushings? Or do you tighten everything down with the wheels straight? My 54 Ford manual does not cover power steering.

Merc Cruzer · 12-06-2023, 10:06 PM

You install and tighten everything down with the wheels straight. When you turn the wheel, the rubber lets the arm move but then pulls it back to straight. You shouldn't be able to move it by hand.

They are different from the manual steering idler arms.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/17542171297...Bk9SR-SBuqSIYw

rjlester · 12-07-2023, 12:52 AM

I do have the power steering idler arm, I put a new manual idler arm in my car two years ago so I did notice the difference with the PS system I removed from the donor car.

So, my gut instinct was right about having the wheels straight. Will it matter if the car is on the hoist, and the wheels are hanging down? I do have a service pit beside the garage, so if I need to tighten everything down on the pit, I'll do it out there. I'm still waiting for a couple of rockauto shipments and then I can do those bushings.

Could I tighten it down as close as I can on the hoist, then drive it outside and on the pit to loosen/retighten the bushings with the wheel perfectly straight?

Merc Cruzer · 12-07-2023, 09:29 AM

"Could I tighten it down as close as I can on the hoist, then drive it outside and on the pit to loosen/retighten the bushings with the wheel perfectly straight?" The answer is yes.

rjlester · 12-07-2023, 11:02 AM

Thanks,

Although, that looks like the manual steering install, no? Does the same apply to PS?

Merc Cruzer · 12-07-2023, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjlester

Thanks,

Although, that looks like the manual steering install, no? Does the same apply to PS?

Here are a few pages from the 1953 Ford manual, for Power steering. The system being essentially the same.

rjlester · 12-07-2023, 12:34 PM

Those pages are excellent, thanks so much. A bit fuzzy, but I am able to read it all. I have a hydraulic press so I can swap those bushings without too much trouble I'm sure. The parts should arrive by the weekend so I will tackle this soon.

I would LOVE to find one of those manuals!

Merc Cruzer · 12-07-2023, 01:21 PM

If you send me an e-mail, i will scan the manual and send it to you in PDF's. That way you can print it.

[email protected]

rjlester · 12-07-2023, 01:26 PM

Major thumbs up here lololol

Merc Cruzer · 12-07-2023, 03:05 PM

Okay, let me know is you have any further questions, during the installation process. Like you, I bought the set up and installed it myself about 10 years ago.

Merc Cruzer · 12-07-2023, 04:43 PM

Could you post a picture of the plate that mounts on the frame on the passenger side. Not sure but you might need a couple of these.

On my Mercury, it took two bolts and nuts and two nutserts in the frame with bolts. I think the Fords only used two bolts and nuts and one nutsert in the frame for a bolt.

rjlester · 12-07-2023, 07:29 PM

Good question. I know the side two holes are there (manual steering uses them, they are through bolts/nuts) but I didn't check underneath on my Meteor. I was actually going to look at this myself as I noticed on the donor car there is a washer under there that appeared to be stuck to the frame. Must be a nutsert?

So yes, the Ford/Meteor only use 3 bolts. One nutsert underneath.

rjlester · 12-07-2023, 10:47 PM

First picture is from the donor car, might be hard to tell but that is a nutsert of some kind from the factory.

20231207_201847.jpg

Second picture shows the hole on my 54 Meteor, looks like a six sided hole, not threaded. I'm thinking I could just weld a nut in there, easy peasy!

20231207_202055.jpg

Third picture is the bolt that goes in there, its a fine thread.

Attachment 531600

Not sure if I'm doing these pictures right. I'm an IT guy by trade and this is the strangest way of attaching pictures lol.

Edit: ok, ya it looks like I can only attach two pics per post. Maybe pic size is still too big.

12-02-2023, 11:17 AM	#1
rjlester Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 247	New seal for PS ram. Hey Guys, I have a complete used PS system from a 54 Ford to convert my car to power steering. Bought a new seal for the ram, but I have a question about removing the old seal. I did find this link helpful: https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...+steering+seal I was able to easily take out the snap ring, then the scraper. Now there appears to be a clear nylon ring holding the seal in place. I'm not worried about destroying the seal to remove it, but how critical is this nylon ring? I suspect it will also be messed up when I remove it, and the seal. Is it just a spacer of some kind? The new seal is 1 inch outside diameter, 5/8 inside.

12-02-2023, 12:47 PM	#2
KULTULZ Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: IN A 'GALAXIE' FAR FAR AWAY Posts: 6,475	Re: New seal for PS ram. Read Thru This - https://www.stangerssite.com/CanIPowerCylinder.html If the inner seal needs to be replaced, the housing has to be cut and re-welded. ALSO - https://www.larescorp.com/toolbox/sk...-power-assist/ And an excellent write-up by one of the esteemed members here - https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...wer%20steering In short, maybe consider having it professionally done and not buying a BOX STORE EXCHANGE incl FORTUNE COOKIE. __________________ *** - WHY IS IT ... - ... that everything you buy in the grocery store is either wrapped in or contained in plastic but the government doesn't want you to carry it out in a plastic bag? WONDERING IN W(BY GOD)V ... DIAGNOSED CDO** - (OCD In Correct Alphabetical Order)

12-02-2023, 01:05 PM	#3
rjlester Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 247	Re: New seal for PS ram. Ok, I see what is happening here. I'm just attempting to change the "end seal" and there are more seals inside that require cutting the cylinder apart? Maybe I should leave this alone for now. I will rebuild the pump and the control valve, I've rebuilt a control valve before and the pump is pretty simple. If the ram leaks after it's installed I'll worry about it then. This car is just a driver so as long as it's not dripping and leaving puddles I'll be fine. The rod looks absolutely pristine so that gives me some confidence. I take it a typical hydraulic shop can cut it open and change the seals? They have built three sets of hoses for me so far for other cars and did good work.

12-02-2023, 02:01 PM	#5
rjlester Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 247	Re: New seal for PS ram. I've ordered a bushing kit for the ram, the idler arm seems surprisingly tight so I'll leave it for now and see how it steers when assembled. The steering box I adjusted a bit a couple years ago, didn't need much adjustment at all. This car steers straight down the road and has no wander at all. I changed the idler arm two years ago thinking it was loose, the new one had the same amount of play and THEN I learned there is a spec on the amount of "slop" it should have lol. Like you said, I will send it to a specialty shop if it does leak. I have a few options in the area, the closest shop does a lot of classic car hoses and such already. Wouldn't be surprised if they can cut open the ram and change the seals.

12-06-2023, 08:55 PM	#8
rjlester Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 247	Re: New seal for PS ram. Steering system is going into my 54 Meteor (Canadian Ford) 4 door. It looks pretty much like what you have in the picture, I'm just painting everything right now. I did order a pair of bushings for the idler arm. You mentioned its ridged, is there a special way to install/orient the bushings? Or do you tighten everything down with the wheels straight? My 54 Ford manual does not cover power steering.

12-07-2023, 12:52 AM	#10
rjlester Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 247	Re: New seal for PS ram. I do have the power steering idler arm, I put a new manual idler arm in my car two years ago so I did notice the difference with the PS system I removed from the donor car. So, my gut instinct was right about having the wheels straight. Will it matter if the car is on the hoist, and the wheels are hanging down? I do have a service pit beside the garage, so if I need to tighten everything down on the pit, I'll do it out there. I'm still waiting for a couple of rockauto shipments and then I can do those bushings. Could I tighten it down as close as I can on the hoist, then drive it outside and on the pit to loosen/retighten the bushings with the wheel perfectly straight?

12-07-2023, 11:02 AM	#12
rjlester Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 247	Re: New seal for PS ram. Thanks, Although, that looks like the manual steering install, no? Does the same apply to PS?

12-07-2023, 12:34 PM	#14
rjlester Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 247	Re: New seal for PS ram. Those pages are excellent, thanks so much. A bit fuzzy, but I am able to read it all. I have a hydraulic press so I can swap those bushings without too much trouble I'm sure. The parts should arrive by the weekend so I will tackle this soon. I would LOVE to find one of those manuals!

12-07-2023, 01:21 PM	#15
Merc Cruzer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Conifer, Colorado Posts: 2,429	Re: New seal for PS ram. If you send me an e-mail, i will scan the manual and send it to you in PDF's. That way you can print it. [email protected]

12-07-2023, 01:26 PM	#16
rjlester Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 247	Re: New seal for PS ram. Major thumbs up here lololol

12-07-2023, 03:05 PM	#17
Merc Cruzer Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Conifer, Colorado Posts: 2,429	Re: New seal for PS ram. Okay, let me know is you have any further questions, during the installation process. Like you, I bought the set up and installed it myself about 10 years ago.

12-07-2023, 07:29 PM	#19
rjlester Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 247	Re: New seal for PS ram. Good question. I know the side two holes are there (manual steering uses them, they are through bolts/nuts) but I didn't check underneath on my Meteor. I was actually going to look at this myself as I noticed on the donor car there is a washer under there that appeared to be stuck to the frame. Must be a nutsert? So yes, the Ford/Meteor only use 3 bolts. One nutsert underneath. Last edited by rjlester; 12-07-2023 at 07:54 PM.

12-07-2023, 10:47 PM	#20
rjlester Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2022 Posts: 247	Re: New seal for PS ram. First picture is from the donor car, might be hard to tell but that is a nutsert of some kind from the factory. 20231207_201847.jpg Second picture shows the hole on my 54 Meteor, looks like a six sided hole, not threaded. I'm thinking I could just weld a nut in there, easy peasy! 20231207_202055.jpg Third picture is the bolt that goes in there, its a fine thread. Attachment 531600 Not sure if I'm doing these pictures right. I'm an IT guy by trade and this is the strangest way of attaching pictures lol. Edit: ok, ya it looks like I can only attach two pics per post. Maybe pic size is still too big.