Pulling my hair out over this misfire

[KULTULZ]

I WONDER

Did FORD continue LOAD-O-MATIC on the HT engine(s) after the 1957 PASS CAR changeover? I used to have all of this info but got rid of most of it years ago. FORD did continue LOAD-O-MATIC on it's inline six cylinder engines up to 1968.

Unfortunately the "Load-O-Matic" distributors were designed for simplicity and economy, rather than performance. The primary reason for this, is that the "Load-O-Matic" distributors have no provisions for mechanical advance. Instead they rely solely on relatively weak vacuum signals to sense changes in load and speed (rpm). As a result the distributors are very slow to provide spark advance when the engine is accelerated under load, making them a poor choice for performance applications.

This is also why we don't like the Petronics Ignition for anything other than stock applications. While the Petronics Ignition may improve spark quality, your still stuck with the poor operation of the "Load-O-Matic" distributor, and your carburetor choices are limited to those that are equipped with a "Spark Control Valve", such as the Autolite 1100. Bottom line, if you want to improve throttle response and overall performance, you need to ditch the early "Load-O-Matic" distributor, swapping it for a late model or aftermarket distributor with mechanical (centrifugal) advance.

SOURCE- https://fordsix.com/ci/Loadomatic.html

runmikeyrun-

You mentioned in an earlier post you found DISTRIBUTOR TECH (shop manual) on a reference site. I could never source it. Do you have the URL by any chance?

If this dist is LOAD-O-MATIC and/or a variation, it could also explain the dist cap differences.


MAYBE- https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...butor-cap.html

[big job]

Gettin old a terrible thing. I keep maint. records for every thing. My dump truck a 1953
F900 last time it got points or a tune up was 1997 and it works for its keep. shame on
me. lol sam

[runmikeyrun]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I WONDER

Did FORD continue LOAD-O-MATIC on the HT engine(s) after the 1957 PASS CAR changeover? I used to have all of this info but got rid of most of it years ago. FORD did continue LOAD-O-MATIC on it's inline six cylinder engines up to 1968.


SOURCE- https://fordsix.com/ci/Loadomatic.html

runmikeyrun-

You mentioned in an earlier post you found DISTRIBUTOR TECH (shop manual) on a reference site. I could never source it. Do you have the URL by any chance?

If this dist is LOAD-O-MATIC and/or a variation, it could also explain the dist cap differences.


MAYBE- https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...butor-cap.html

I believe it is not a load-o-matic distributor. Based on the number stamped on it (12102 C0TF) it’s from a 1960 292 cu. in. HD truck engine. This is the link to the 1960 Ford Truck service manual (thumbnails of every page) starts here:

http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/m...ks/index1.html

Group 2 has ignition/distributor info. A couple of the relative pages regarding the distributor are the following.

This is an exploded view. It is mechanical advance only.


This one shows/explains how the governor system for that distributor worked, however I do not have the factory carb so I plugged these vacuum lines. The vacuum doesn’t have an effect on ignition timing, only to regulate the governor operation.






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[KULTULZ]

THANX!

I could not find that anyway I tried ...

[runmikeyrun]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

THANX!

I could not find that anyway I tried ...

You’re welcome. Even though it’s hosted on their website, it’s hard to find the link for it.


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[runmikeyrun]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Ok, time for an update.

I checked intake and carb baseplate nuts, all are tight. Haven’t sprayed any wd-40 yet to see if there are leaks.

Vacuum gauge at idle is reading about 14 (manifold vacuum) and the needle is bouncing. From what I’ve read it’s not just a low reading but it also means there is a problem with one or two cylinders and not all of them.

Still blowing blue smoke out of the passenger exhaust pipe.

When I pulled plugs on the pass side today #2 was wet and plug #4 had oil pooled inside of it (pic).

Head gasket? Cracked block? I’m gonna have to do a compression test.


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[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by runmikeyrun

. . Vacuum gauge at idle is reading about 14 (manifold vacuum) and the needle is bouncing. From what I’ve read it’s not just a low reading but it also means there is a problem with one or two cylinders and not all of them.
. . . I’m gonna have to do a compression test.

Bouncing can be from leaking intake valves.
Compression test, yes.
Remove all the spark plugs so the engine can turn over easier, and block the throttle butterfly open too.

Oil on plug #4 could easily explain the blue smoke on that side.

>edit<
Have the valves been adjusted recently? Some of them may be too tight.
.

[Daves55Sedan]

A vacuum reading of 14 is too low for a Y-block. Should be around 20. Could be a number of different issues responsible; leaky intake gaskets or carb base gasket, valves not seating all the way, could be internal to the carb.
Oil in the spark plug could be caused by bad piston rings.
Blue smoke....she's an oil burner.

[KULTULZ]

Did they include an illustrated diagnostic guide with the gauge?

[runmikeyrun]

Update:

Did a compression test on all the cylinders on the pass side since that’s the side blowing oil smoke. 120-125 on cyl 1-3 and 70 on #4. Then 0. Then 110. Then 0. Figured I had a valve sticking open since sometimes I had it and sometimes I didn’t.

Pulled the valve cover and I had a push rod sunk down into the head:


Slid the rocker arm to the side, pulled the pushrod out. Not bent and all there. Put it back in, loosened the rocker shaft to get the rocker arm back on, and tightened the rocker shaft hold down bolts.

Turning it over by hand (with all the plugs out) and it definitely gets hard to turn when that pushrod is moving. So I’m thinking the lifter and/or valve is sticking. I put a good dribble of seafoam on both and had it sit about an hour before reassembly.

Ran home to grab my torque wrench and goin go fire it up with the cover off to see what happens.


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[runmikeyrun]

Ok. Buttoned back up and cranked it over a few times to see what would happen. Either the intake valve is sticking open or lifter is sticking and holding the valve open.

When I had the pushrod loose, I could not push it down at all even when turning the motor over by hand. I knew the cam was turning underneath it. I had to loosen the rocker shaft to get the pushrod seated back into the rocker arm adjuster because the pushrod was up too high. Makes me think the lifter is sticking.

I also could not budge the valve by hand, but I know those springs are very strong.

If it’s the lifter am I looking at running some Marvel to see if it will free up? Or will I have to pull the intake and valley pan and yank it out?

Thanks guys for all your help so far!

https://youtu.be/wpu7ulExw0o




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[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by runmikeyrun

. . .
Either the intake valve is sticking open or lifter is sticking and holding the valve open.

If it’s the lifter am I looking at running some Marvel to see if it will free up? Or will I have to pull the intake and valley pan and yank it out?

Thanks guys for all your help so far!

https://youtu.be/wpu7ulExw0o

Back in post #1, did you say the engine was rebuilt last winter?

After looking at your 6 sec video the lifter seems to be sticking in it's 'up' position, or I'd expect the pushrod to drop. It's possible that surface tension of the oil is holding the pushrod up, so it could be a stuck valve.
If it's a sticky lifter the MMO might loosen it up, but whatever is causing it to stick is not a good thing.

For a pushrod to have fallen out without it being bent the valve would be sticking open, unless the adjusting screw on that valve was very loose to start with.

Taking off the intake manifold and valley pan will let you see the top of the lifters.
To remove the lifters the cam has to come out.
.

[40cpe]

If you want to try to get the lifter down, take the distributor cap off and point the rotor to the cylinder's spark plug wire terminal on the cap. This will put the heel of the cam to both lifters on that cylinder. Use a wooden dowel on the push rod end of the rocker and tap it firmly with a hammer. If it moves down, turn the engine and see if it sticks again.

The only caveat I see is that if the lifter is fractured, pieces might line up and create enough force to break the cam or the block. Proceed at your own risk.

[runmikeyrun]

What about putting a little tranny fluid or marvel mystery oil down the pushrod journal? Let it sit for a day and then try cranking it over again?


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[CrownVic55]

Make sure you have the push rod in the lifter and not sitting on the block itself. Then when you turn the engine by hand you should feel it move. If for sure it is in the lifter then previous posters are probably correct and lifter is binding.

[runmikeyrun]

Originally Posted by CrownVic55

Make sure you have the push rod in the lifter and not sitting on the block itself. Then when you turn the engine by hand you should feel it move. If for sure it is in the lifter then previous posters are probably correct and lifter is binding.

Yup, it’s in there... we spent a little time figuring out which is wrong vs right lol. I will check again though. Kinda hard to see, but the pushrod is moving a little, just all the way at the end of its travel.


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[runmikeyrun]

Thought: can I snake a boroscope down the oil fill tube and visualize the lifters? You can get them pretty cheap on amazon that fit right into my phone. If the Marvel oil doesn’t unstick things I’d like to see if it’s broken before just tearing it down.


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[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by runmikeyrun

Thought: can I snake a boroscope down the oil fill tube and visualize the lifters? . . .

Probably?
How about removing the rocker arm shafts & pushrods and looking at the lifters straight down thru each hole?

[runmikeyrun]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

How about taking out the rocker arms & pushrods and looking at the lifters straight down thru each hole?

I could see the top, I’m thinking more if it’s broken in the middle. I might pick up one of those boroscopes regardless, I’ve got a bunch of old bikes that could an inspection haha


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[runmikeyrun]

I just dribbled some MMO down the pushrod journal. Going to let it soak 24 hours then dribble a little oil down there tomorrow and give it a few cranks.


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