Power Steering Make Up 56 Wagon

[Jwawhite]

Hello K and others, I've ordered the aftermarket kit and will respond as to its quality. We have a source for old 50s parts from Jim out of Paradise, CA. I gave him a call the other day and he's sending a pair of steel washers that may work for me. I'll apply silicone grease to the new rubbers and install when the parts come in. What poor quality of work on this molested but improving vehicle.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

Jwawhite

Did you get my PM?

Originally Posted by Jwawhite

Hello K and others,

I've ordered the aftermarket kit and will respond as to its quality. We have a source for old 50s parts from Jim out of Paradise, CA. I gave him a call the other day and he's sending a pair of steel washers that may work for me. I'll apply silicone grease to the new rubbers and install when the parts come in. What poor quality of work on this molested but improving vehicle.

I found a NOS kit and sent a Private Message to you (hoping you would get access first).

Did you get the PM?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

dmsfrr...I don't know if you are aware of this or not, but the original cast iron idler arm bracket that also holds the ram cylinder shaft end utilized the same frame bolt holes that your manual steering idler arm bracket uses and also bolts to one or more "crush-nuts" inserted into those hexagon holes in the bottom of the frame. In other words, the manual steering idler arm bracket is NOT used on cars that have power steering. The power steering idler arm bracket is a cast iron idler arm and ram cylinder holding bracket all in one piece.
One bolt to hold the ram cylinder shaft end is not enough. That's partly why it failed along with someone trying to attempt to weld cast iron.
.....

The one piece PS & Idler arm bracket on this '55 project was originally held on with three bolts, but the bottom one failed.

Bolt heads - they were originally inserted from the outside of frame with nuts & washers on the 'bracket' side. In photos 1 & 2 they are temporarily inserted backwards, to hold the bracket up in place.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

The one piece PS & Idler arm bracket on this '55 project was originally held on with three bolts, but the bottom one failed.

Correct. The bottom bolt (20649-S) is designed to not allow the actual bracket 3511 to flex or fail due to the strain @ the point the PS cylinder exerts pressure on it (as evidenced by the fastener failure). The upper two bolts just mounts and stabilizes the bracket for the idler arm.

BTW- The mounting bracket B5S 3351-A is used on all three BIRD model years.

That tack weld was ugly...

[Jwawhite]

Wealth of Knowledge that's what I see...I note on my frame the Nut insert hole for the T Birds, not used on my set-up.

Remember when I wrote about cars that have been somewhat messed up over time?

Today I was able to remove the nut on the Ram Rod. The threads are a bit messed up, a die was used but still the nut hangs up part way down. (Was the shaft held here last assy?).

This is what I discovered, the length of the shaft is too short to hold the aftermarket grommets for my car. These 2 grommets measure 5/8" each, but the mounting shaft width is only 1" in length. Also my shaft threads are 7/16 by 20, the nut in the kit appears to be a 3/8". Only the inboard grommet was available and in its tore up condition about 5/16"

What system/year do I have on this car?

[dmsfrr]

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Don't assume the bushing kit is correct for the car.
Yes the original PS cylinder may have been changed but it's also very possible you were sent / sold a kit that isn't the right one. See if they have something better.

If that doesn't work out and since you need replacement parts to get it working, go for the next easiest thing and look for curved washers & rubber bushings that fit the steering cylinder rod you have.
Misc. steady rest, control arm or shock absorber bushing parts may fit???
And they don't have to be from a '55/'57 Ford, as long as they fit well.
.

[KULTULZ]

...the length of the shaft is too short to hold the aftermarket grommets for my car. These 2 grommets measure 5/8" each, but the mounting shaft width is only 1" in length.

Also my shaft threads are 7/16 by 20, the nut in the kit appears to be a 3/8". Only the inboard grommet was available and in its tore up condition about 5/16"

What dmsfrr said... Your rubbers are too large...

The cylinder sounds to be correct by the threaded stem size but after all of these years, it might be off a Studebaker.

The kit with a 3/8" nut sounds like the kit is 57/ .

[miker98038]

I’m with dmsfrr on that, find what fits. I might also look at urethane bushings, especially if you end up needing something thin. It will probably give enough of a cushion and still hold up, where a cut down rubber one might fail sooner.

[dmsfrr]

.KULTULZ could well have found what you need.

But if you can't find oem style parts that fit, parts you can use could be almost anywhere.

Example...
Baby Bird oil pans have an uncommonly large drain plug. I was in a hurry looking for a replacement gasket and a very accommodating fellow behind the counter at the closest NAPA store found one that fits 100% perfectly. I bought 4 of them.
IIRC they're actually for a recent Dodge 3/4 ton pickup with a big diesel engine.

.

[KULTULZ]

Performance Polyurethane End Link Set, Grommets and Washer Set

HERE- http://www.energysuspension.com/prod...-Bushings.html

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

The one piece PS & Idler arm bracket on this '55 project was originally held on with three bolts, but the bottom one failed.

Bolt heads - they were originally inserted from the outside of frame with nuts & washers on the 'bracket' side. In photos 1 & 2 they are temporarily inserted backwards, to hold the bracket up in place.

KULTULZ Sticking His Nose Where It doesn't Belong...

dmsfrr-

I was looking through this thread this morning and looked closely at your photo above.

It seems (to me anyways) that the retaining bracket cap screws lost their torque value allowing the bracket to move on the frame as evidenced by the cap screw heads wallowing and digging into the frame rail and the bottom fastener pulling out of it's retainer.

Maybe a couple of GRADE 5 flat washers under the heads to distribute and maintain torque value?

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

... It seems (to me anyways) that the retaining bracket cap screws lost their torque value allowing the bracket to move on the frame as evidenced by the cap screw heads wallowing and digging into the frame rail and the bottom fastener pulling out of it's retainer.

Maybe a couple of GRADE 5 flat washers under the heads to distribute and maintain torque value?

No telling how long it's had that problem, and the idler arm bushings are shot as well. I was barely able to put 100 miles on the car before I had to pull the engine. All the suspension bushings need to be replaced too, once the engine is running again.

Yes, the bracket will get better hardware when it goes back on.

.

[Jwawhite]

K looking at the kit you posted, the washer ID appear to be different, also the ID of the grommets appear to be too large. The grommets may hang down on the shaft and one washer may slip over the shoulder of the Ram shaft. But we're getting closer, I need a kit with more slender grommets with proper washers. Looking at dmsffr pics the grommets appear to be slender. I've determined there are two differing Ram shaft dimensions wherein one needs the sleeve and the other 7/16" does not. I am concerned about the OD dimension cut into the inside and outside of the bracket. I think the grommet would be cut by the edge. I am trying to find urethane ones, perhaps I should look for a 56 Thunderbird kit.

[Jwawhite]

dmsffr and K:

https://www.larrystbird.com/product/...ting-kit-5556/

Perhaps my source?

Check out page 13, will call them (and above) on Monday

https://www.classictbird.com/pdf/CASCO-webalog.pdf

[dmsfrr]

Talking w/ them on the phone so they can double check the size of what you need before ordering is a plus.
Good luck in your search.

ps: Casco should have a fair sized inventory of good used oem parts.

.

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

The blind nut inside the frame pulled thru and someone tack welded the casting to the frame, which of course didn't stay put at all. Had to open up the frame to put in a replacement nut.

I forgot to mention this, but there is a replacement fastener whereas you don't have to go into the rail itself-

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I forgot to mention this, but there is a replacement fastener whereas you don't have to go into the rail itself-

Thanks, I thought of that but the cast bracket on the car doesn't have a recess in it for the outer lip of the nut, and I didn't want a spacer between the bracket & frame.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by KULTULZ

I forgot to mention this, but there is a replacement fastener whereas you don't have to go into the rail itself-

Yes, they are called "crush-nuts" and they are available at most of your favorite resto parts suppliers in the power steering section.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

Thanks, I thought of that but the cast bracket on the car doesn't have a recess in it for the outer lip of the nut, and I didn't want a spacer between the bracket & frame.

dmsfrr....If I were you, I would get rid of that piece of scrap iron bracket and get the original T-bird idler arm power steering bracket if you can. You are going to have trouble holding that bracket to the frame no matter what you try to do. It does not have enough surface area at the bottom to give it leverage and stability.
I would also urge against using polyurethane shock bushings for the power steering ram cylinder. The rubber bushings squeeze and flex a great deal more than you realize when making turns. Using harder bushings like polyurethane will stiffen the assembly, reducing shock absorbing quality and flexibility and place a great deal more tension and compression between the bracket and frame (causing MORE stress at the bolts). You don't want that when "crush-nuts" are being used.
The original T-bird bracket has the round recesses in the bottom flange to accommodate the bottom of the crush nuts.

[Daves55Sedan]

Here is a brand new kit for a '55/56 ram cylinder I bought many years ago.
The rubber bushings and inner washer have 1/2 inch hole so they can slide onto the ram cylinder shaft. The rubber bushings are each 5/8 inch thick and 1-1/4 inch outside diameter, but that expands when the nut is tightened at the end of the shaft. The washers are both 1-9/16 inch outside diameter.
The small end of the ram cylinder shaft (where the washers and bushings go) is one inch long (not including the threaded end) which is a little over 3/4 inch long.
When you first assemble the ram cylinder together with the kit into the idler arm bracket, it will look like there is barely room to put on the first nut. Once you get the nut started on the threads, turn the nut to crush the rubber bushings down enough to get the locknut on securely.


JWA, if your measurements do not match the ones I have given on your ram cylinder shaft, you probably have a ram cylinder that came off a later year car.