Checking blocks for condition Pressure testing

[Ronnieroadster]

There's many steps involved in checking a blocks condition to be sure there's no hidden surprises. After checking the surfaces for cracks with the mag checker the next extremally important test takes place. Here's a picture showing this important next step.

Pressure Testing some recent arrivals in the shop. Here's how its being done this plate is universal can be used on 21 and 24 bolt blocks. No need to remove studs for this test on any 1948 and earlier blocks.
Ronnieroadster

[HopRod]

Yes, I learned that lesson the hard way. I now have my own testing plates too. I like the one you have there. Do you do a leak down test or are you using a soap bubble method too? How high do you pressurize the blocks?

[rockfla]

Ronnie
Here is the pressure plates and neoprene gaskets one of my good customers water jet cut for me for 21 stud, there shouldn't be a problem laying a 24 stud gasket over and drill holes for that as well, right??? That way I have both bases covered.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by rockfla

Ronnie
Here is the pressure plates and neoprene gaskets one of my good customers water jet cut for me for 21 stud, there shouldn't be a problem laying a 24 stud gasket over and drill holes for that as well, right??? That way I have both bases covered.

I thought about doing that with the Offenhauser 24 bolt plate I have but what I discovered is there's water holes along the front and rear edges of each block are in different locations. This is a problem where the 24 bolt pattern bolt holes locate over a water hole on the 21 bolt surface thus creating a big leak. So those bolt holes on the 24 pattern need to be closed to test the 21 stud block. And the same problem happens with the 21 bolt pattern water holes being located in the area of the 24 bolt pattern. Another big leak. Boy this is confusing to write down correctly hopefully its understandable.

The plate I use if you look closely has pipe plugs along the front and rear that close off the holes in the locations of the block water holes. The holes on 24 pattern on this plate in the water hole area have pipe plug threads so four plugs on the plate are moved to the four holes needing to be closed off.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by HopRod

Yes, I learned that lesson the hard way. I now have my own testing plates too. I like the one you have there. Do you do a leak down test or are you using a soap bubble method too? How high do you pressurize the blocks?

Soapy water bubble method works ever time I use 30 PSI I have found that's plenty to find any issues.

[rockfla]

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Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

I thought about doing that with the Offenhauser 24 bolt plate I have but what I discovered is there's water holes along the front and rear edges of each block are in different locations. This is a problem where the 24 bolt pattern bolt holes locate over a water hole on the 21 bolt surface thus creating a big leak. So those bolt holes on the 24 pattern need to be closed to test the 21 stud block. And the same problem happens with the 21 bolt pattern water holes being located in the area of the 24 bolt pattern. Another big leak. Boy this is confusing to write down correctly hopefully its understandable.

The plate I use if you look closely has pipe plugs along the front and rear that close off the holes in the locations of the block water holes. The holes on 24 pattern on this plate in the water hole area have pipe plug threads so four plugs on the plate are moved to the four holes needing to be closed off.

SO....short of the long, get another set cut for the 24 stud!!! Got it!!

[bobH]

Curiosity question here... Perhaps for Ronnie.... My example, 59A, and the leak (big leak) is in the exhaust port, right front, up in where you know the leak is there, but you can't see it. So, the conclusion here has been that it is 'fatal', non-visible, non fixable. Other opinions?

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by bobH

Curiosity question here... Perhaps for Ronnie.... My example, 59A, and the leak (big leak) is in the exhaust port, right front, up in where you know the leak is there, but you can't see it. So, the conclusion here has been that it is 'fatal', non-visible, non fixable. Other opinions?

Sadly if its up in the port there's no fix for that. The block would be good for a competition application where the block is filled solid for additional strength thus running a dry block only cooling would be in the head's.
Ronnieroadster

[bobH]

Thank You

[Mart]

Ronnie, would it be possible to post a bigger version of your block off plate picture? Even full size it is still not very easy to see the details.
If you could, that would be great.
Thanks.
Mart.

[glennpm]

[flatjack9]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

There's many steps involved in checking a blocks condition to be sure there's no hidden surprises. After checking the surfaces for cracks with the mag checker the next extremally important test takes place. Here's a picture showing this important next step.

Pressure Testing some recent arrivals in the shop. Here's how its being done this plate is universal can be used on 21 and 24 bolt blocks. No need to remove studs for this test on any 1948 and earlier blocks.
Ronnieroadster

It's nice to test the early blocks with the studs still in. It's nasty to remove the studs and find out it is no good when you pressure test it.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by Mart

Ronnie, would it be possible to post a bigger version of your block off plate picture? Even full size it is still not very easy to see the details.
If you could, that would be great.
Thanks.
Mart.

Hi Mart I certainly can post a better picture. At the moment its still on the block pictured once I have it off I will take some pictures and post them.
Ronnieroadster

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

It's nice to test the early blocks with the studs still in. It's nasty to remove the studs and find out it is no good when you pressure test it.

Great point, Jack.

[Ronnieroadster]

Here's some pictures of the universal Ford flathead pressure testing plate for 21 and 24 stud blocks. Note along the front and rear edges the various holes required to accommodate the differences of the water holes and bolt patterns between the 21 and 24 stud blocks. Three holes on each end require a pipe plug thread to seal the plate correctly against the water hole differences.
Ronnieroadster

[GB SISSON]

The blocks I need to test are all 24 stud blocks. Would a plate made for 24 studs work for both 59ab style as well as 8ba? If not, what would I need to address? A friend of mine has a plasma table and can cut up to 1" plate. I'm guessing 1/2" would be plenty.

[38 coupe]

There is the difference in the front water passages on the 8BA, but if you make the plate to cover that it probably would work on both 59A and 8BA. A cardboard template and a block of each type should tell the tale.

[deuce5wndw]

Have him use a 8BA head gasket to cut your plate and you can do both 8BA blocks and 59a blocks.

[deuce5wndw]

First photo is a 59a head on a 8BA and the second is the speedway plate that has the tab on the front to cover the 8BA extra hole or use on a 59A block.

[GB SISSON]

Excellent, thanks guys. His wife runs the table and does all the programming. Once it's in the computor can she make a bunch more by pushing a few buttons? Also what's a good thickness plate?

[deuce5wndw]

Mine is 3/8 with 1/8 rubber glued to it. While they are cutting do the water pump plates also.

[GB SISSON]

Thanks all! I feel this is a very important topic to be discussing on the forum. With these blocks, testing is Everything. With today's labor rates a couple of cracks means a throw away, but success on a proper mag test, pressure test, and good bores, and you have something!

[Mart]

The extra hole on an 8BA is a simple passage from the head face to the water pump face. It doesn't go to the water jacket as such, so shouldn't need blocking. You don't need coolant holes so it should be universal 59A/8BA.

[Ronnieroadster]

Mart is correct that small hole on the deck at the front edge of the block is simply a bypass hole to the water pump housing. So if you pattern the plate from the 59 type head gasket the pressure plate will work perfectly.

[Bored&Stroked]

Hey Ronnie, I like the "universal" idea of a plate that does both 21 and 24 stud blocks. Thanks!

Another idea would be to make a thicker aluminum plate that could also be used as a honing plate when the bores are honed. I have about a 3" think one that we made for the FlatCAD - though when we recently used it, the bores showed no signs of distortion (shadowing) in the stud locations - so not really sure that it provides value. What it did help us find was some weak stud threads! Yikes! We were fortunate to find them before the block was assembled and was still at the machine shop.

We used "RockMount" inserts in a couple locations - really a cool product. They are harder than Hell and really should be put in on a big Mill. But, they also would be ideal for aluminum situations.

https://rockmountwelding.com/product...l/?sku=90402-2

Do you use a honing torque plate - what have you seen with shadowing when you first start the hone process?

[deuce5wndw]

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Well. I'm not as smart as I thought!!! lol

[glennpm]

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

Here's some pictures of the universal Ford flathead pressure testing plate for 21 and 24 stud blocks. Note along the front and rear edges the various holes required to accommodate the differences of the water holes and bolt patterns between the 21 and 24 stud blocks. Three holes on each end require a pipe plug thread to seal the plate correctly against the water hole differences.
Ronnieroadster

Ronnie, how was this plate made? Is it an actual head with portions cut away? If I had one cut from plate and had a handful of spacers like hex nuts or pipe cuttoffs, I should be able to leave the studs in place when necessary, correct?

[Mart]

GB, if you have any scrap steering boxes, the column shaft tube would make good standoffs. It's 3/4" diameter and the bore should clear a 7/16" stud. You'd have to check and maybe drill it a bit, but I think it clears.

Mart.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Mart

GB, if you have any scrap steering boxes, the column shaft tube would make good standoffs. It's 3/4" diameter and the bore should clear a 7/16" stud. You'd have to check and maybe drill it a bit, but I think it clears.

Mart.

Or just order some DOM steel tubing - cut to length and finish the ends.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Ronnie, how was this plate made? Is it an actual head with portions cut away? If I had one cut from plate and had a handful of spacers like hex nuts or pipe cuttoffs, I should be able to leave the studs in place when necessary, correct?

No this plate was made for the testing it may be by KR Wilson but I'm not sure the name and part number are not readable. Its cast iron and very heavy.
Ronnieroadster

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Hey Ronnie, I like the "universal" idea of a plate that does both 21 and 24 stud blocks. Thanks!

Another idea would be to make a thicker aluminum plate that could also be used as a honing plate when the bores are honed. I have about a 3" think one that we made for the FlatCAD - though when we recently used it, the bores showed no signs of distortion (shadowing) in the stud locations - so not really sure that it provides value. What it did help us find was some weak stud threads! Yikes! We were fortunate to find them before the block was assembled and was still at the machine shop.

We used "RockMount" inserts in a couple locations - really a cool product. They are harder than Hell and really should be put in on a big Mill. But, they also would be ideal for aluminum situations.

https://rockmountwelding.com/product...l/?sku=90402-2

Do you use a honing torque plate - what have you seen with shadowing when you first start the hone process?

Hi Dale
We definitely use a torque plate for the competition flathead blocks there's definitely shadowing around the bores where the threaded holes are located. Considering the bore we run 3-5/16 that's enough to cause the distortion when tightening the torque plate.
Ronnieroadster

[Bored&Stroked]

Thanks Ronnie! Was wondering what you saw with the torque plate and hone - appreciate the info.

[KiWinUS]

I too use my Honing Torque plate to pressure test.

[supereal]

Our shop is equipped with a device that tests the cylinder bores with ultrasound to determine the thickness between the cylinder bore and the surrounding water jacket, and any "sand" spots that may cause failure. It has saved us from spending time on blocks that are likely to fail.

[Yoyodyne]

Here's my combination 21 and 24 stud plate. I use a 1/16 rubber gasket, it holds 60 psi in open bolts holes no problem. You can see where it stretched but it hasn't failed. I didn't put every hole in the rubber gasket so I didn't need to put a bolt or stud in every hole.


For the pump blockoff plates I tried 3/16 plate, that bent and leaked at under 30 psi. So I grabbed a thick piece of aluminum, faced it and put holes in it. You don't need pretty to be effective.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by Mart

GB, if you have any scrap steering boxes, the column shaft tube would make good standoffs. It's 3/4" diameter and the bore should clear a 7/16" stud. You'd have to check and maybe drill it a bit, but I think it clears.

Mart.

Scrap steering box? Funny you should ask. I replaced the jailbar steering box on my shop built snow plow today. You'll have to stay tuned for that in a seperate thread. Back to our regular scheduled feature, pressure testing.