$250 for switching R&P in banjo rear

[BillyBobsSpeedShop]

I have an open drive 3:54 ring gear and pinion that I want to put in a 39 ford banjo rear. I have never done any type of rear end work and never switched the R&P before. I have read a few tech write ups on here but just dont feel confortable doing it. So I called a shop who does rear end work and they priced switching the R&P for me and it would be around $250. Does that sound reasonable?

[Dale Fairfax]

Maybe. 5 hours at $50/hour? From what I've seen in the Ford Service bulletins and Motor's Manuals, I wouldn't want to promise it in anything less than 5 hours. The bigger question would be: Is the shop REALLY familiar with that style rearend and will all bearing loads, clearances, and backlash be right when it's done.

[BUBBAS IGNITION]

I have done a few of these and i am not sure i would do it for $250.
Dale hit the nail on the head in the respect of "does the shop know this rear axle" the kid down the street thats been building chevelles and mustangs rear axles might not be the guy for this job.
We have qiote a few shops around here that could get er done and have tons of experiences with these older units......

[Bassman/NZ]

I agree. This is not a job for the average shop.
I recommend you do the job, even if you're not confident. I did exactly the same thing and just followed all the procedures I could find. It's actually not difficult, just time consuming. I took about 7-8 hours.

[B-O-B]

Why don't you R&R the rearend & just have a shop do the setup on the R&P. It's not rocket science BUT you do need to get the gears setup with the correct tolerances. Should only take them less than half the time to just set up the gears.

[Bruce Lancaster]

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Well, I understand the new gears, meaning just about all the 3.54's available, are harder to get set up than OEM. Ford held reallydamntight tolerances, and pinion depth was usually fine and often everything would be fine with the standard side gaskets on first shot.

[Lawrie]

I fitted a 3.54 to my 34, it was a new reproduction gearset,
It WAS NOT as easy as setting an original ford set,
The pinion depth was not right and I had to make spacers to get the contact right.
Lawrie

[Pete]

Originally Posted by Dale Fairfax

Maybe. 5 hours at $50/hour? From what I've seen in the Ford Service bulletins and Motor's Manuals, I wouldn't want to promise it in anything less than 5 hours. The bigger question would be: Is the shop REALLY familiar with that style rearend and will all bearing loads, clearances, and backlash be right when it's done.

Most shops that are in business to make a living are closer to $90 an hour.

[Charlie ny]

What Jim Lindner and Dale said. You'll need a dial indicator, a banjo
gasket set and some good grade grease crayon to check pinion tooth
contact. A good view of what the contact should look like is in the latest
Rod & Custom...the issue with the blue '32 roadster on the cover.
It's sort of like everything 'Flathead'....just don't overlook the obscure
details or you'll get BIT !!!
Charlie ny

[Pete Fl/Wi]

What the others have advised but also setup a work bench and chain hoist or cherry picker to move the parts around. I did my 39 last year and found it was a physical job. I took my time and it works fine.
Pete

[Shadetree]

I did this swap in my `35 a couple of years ago and like Billy Bob I just didn't feel comfortable doing it. I have a neighbor that can do anything mechanically and has the tools to do it. After we got into it I am glad I didn't try it by myself.

I remain a Shadetree mechanic.

[Straightpipes]

I got everything ready to go and brought my friend and Flathead tranny and rearend Guru over to show me how it's done. Thats Neal Evans who used to build all of Early Ford V8s stuff before they moved south.
Anyway, it took all of 4 hours to set it up properly. I would have probobly took twice as long.
I wouldn't take it to a non-flathead guy.

[jimTN]

While you are in there, replace the internal seals on the outer end of each housing.

[Ralph Moore]

What seals? As far as I know(which is very little) about banjo's they have no outer seal on the axle. Just the hub.

[PeteVS]

Originally Posted by Ralph Moore

What seals? As far as I know(which is very little) about banjo's they have no outer seal on the axle. Just the hub.

There ARE axle seals way out at the ends of the axle housings, on the inside. They're the same part as the seal up at the front of the torque tube. Install them with the lips pointed in towards the center of the car. I don't remember how I got mine out, but MAC's has a nifty little tool for putting the new ones in. It's basically a big washer welded onto a 1/2" pipe coupling. You supply a length of pipe long enough to reach way down in there.

[Stenny]

Don't know if I'm reading your post wrong but you cannot put an open drive pinion in a closed drive axle. The open drive pinion is threaded to accept the U joint and the closed drive pinion is splined to accept the driveline. I made my own seal installer for the axle housing using a 3/4" water pipe, and spot welding SAE 3/4 flat washer 1 " in from the end. The lip seals point towards the hub. I put 1936 3:54's in my '39 using a spline adapter to join the two different types. Not a difficult job but as everyone notes, it is time consuming. I probably had 8 hours total time in the job.

[Hoop]

"Install them with the lips pointed in towards the center of the car."

"The lip seals point towards the hub."

( ... I'm getting light-headed.)

[BillyBobsSpeedShop]

I have a whole center section out of an open drive truck that had 3.54 R&P in it and swaping the center out of my 39 rearend, and putting 40 brake drums on the rear also. I have everything for the rebuild when it comes to open drive.

[jerry grayson]

Originally Posted by BillyBobsSpeedShop

I have a whole center section out of an open drive truck that had 3.54 R&P in it and swaping the center out of my 39 rearend, and putting 40 brake drums on the rear also. I have everything for the rebuild when it comes to open drive.

If you have the center section with the pinion in it, then you are home free!! Just swap center for center and assemble. Put some heavy grease on the ring gear and turn the pinion after assembly, then remove the bell and check the pattern and if good put every thing back together.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by jerry grayson

If you have the center section with the pinion in it, then you are home free!! Just swap center for center and assemble. Put some heavy grease on the ring gear and turn the pinion after assembly, then remove the bell and check the pattern and if good put every thing back together.

I agree. That is the ticket for the backyard mechanic for sure.

[Fe26]

There was an excellent and very informative article (with many pictures) posted on The Hamb a while ago.

[PeteVS]

Originally Posted by Hoop

"Install them with the lips pointed in towards the center of the car."

"The lip seals point towards the hub."

( ... I'm getting light-headed.)

It's my opinion that the inner axle seal is intended to-
1: Keep differential oil out of the rear wheel bearings and-
2: Giving the wheel bearing grease (if overpressurized from heat or ill advised use of the zerk fitting) a place to go other than out to the brakes.

IMHO

[jimTN]

The lip seals point towards the center of the rear end, their purpose is to keep the lighter liquid grease from going into the hubs and diluting the heavier wheel bearing grease there. The hub seals keep that heavy grease from getting out on your brake drums but will not do a good job of stoping the lighter liquid grease if it gets out there.

[Ralph Moore]

Well I guess I learned something new! I have yet to tear into my rear end because it came from a running car. Although I would love to upgrade it to later splined axles as depicted in the latest R&C magazine.