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08-02-2010, 07:14 AM | #1 |
Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 7
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Mechanical Brakes
In the question I posted about Electrics I warned you that I also have a question about Mechanical Brakes. This is it …
I read an article (I think it was in the Model A Times about a kit for mechanical brakes by a fellow in New Zealand named Ted Spain aka "Flathead Ted". The article was a report of a work-in-progress. The magazine had acquired a kit, uncovered it's secrets and were installing it on a car. As I remember the secrets were impressive (the kit indeed made the braked fully floating and self-actuating) and the report was very positive (they expected stopping results on par with hydraulic conversions). The article warned that the kit was "pricey" and included a web address for Ted which I tried and the web address didn't work. I am asking anyone who has additional or later information about Mr. Spain and his magic brakes to please post it of send it to me directly. Thanks |
08-02-2010, 07:41 AM | #2 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern Tennessee
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
"Magic Brakes" ..... do you really believe there is such a thing as magic, --or sleight of hand?
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08-02-2010, 07:42 AM | #3 |
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
Try this link. www.flatheadted.com I just tried it and it works. A number of cars in our local club have his mods installed and the owners are pleased with the results. I personally had a kit and elected to not install it. It is my feeling that the kit does reduce pedal pressure but I see no other advantage. Gar Williams
Last edited by Aerocraft; 08-02-2010 at 07:44 AM. Reason: spelling |
08-02-2010, 07:56 AM | #4 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 264
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
people in my club like them!!!
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08-02-2010, 08:36 AM | #5 |
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Location: Minnesota
Posts: 198
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
I have them installed in my 4dr. numerous people in and out of our club comment on them. I do know it is IMPERATIVE they be installed to the letter. consequently, I hear either a very positive response, or the very opposite and they remove them. the floaters can not and will not make up for any deficiencies in your brake system.
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08-02-2010, 08:47 AM | #6 |
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
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08-02-2010, 11:01 AM | #7 |
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Location: santa cruz, calif
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
the earlier kits had hard to follow instructions and used a reversed roller pin that could be troublesome if not installed with the cotter pin exactly as designed. But the instructions made it difficult in determining what exactly that was. Consequently, many were installed incorrectly and were not working right. Add to that the general tendency of many guys not to read instructions at all and to "improve" on them, and there were many failures to perform as advertised. If installed correctly, they work very well on a good brake system, reducing the pedal pressure enough to make the brakes very responsive. Now the kit has been improved with the addition of a roller integrated pin to eliminate the cotter pin trouble and much better instructions. The kit will not, however, compensate for worn pins, rod eyes, sloppy pedal bushings, worn cam shaft bushings, un arced shoes , shoes not properly centered, thin or warped drums. I have the original Ford brake system on my station wagon, which has the shoes set up and centered by Bob Rentz, and they work remarkably well. The only difference in stopping power is the pedal pressure and even at that its a very small, but noticeable, difference. But some people want every advantage they can get and with brakes, a good argument can be made for getting that advantage.
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08-02-2010, 01:15 PM | #8 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Spooner, Wisconsin
Posts: 242
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
With Ted's floater kit, I can "lock-up" and skid all four wheels at 20 mph.
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08-02-2010, 01:48 PM | #9 |
Senior Member
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
Without Ted's floater kit on stock brakes, I can "lock-up" and skid all four wheels at 20 mph.
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08-02-2010, 02:20 PM | #10 |
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Location: Littleton, Colorado
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
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08-02-2010, 04:54 PM | #11 |
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
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08-02-2010, 05:15 PM | #12 | |
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Location: Eastern Tennessee
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
Quote:
FWIW; if you want less pedal pressure, disconnect one of the shoe springs just like Ted instructs you to do with his kit. . |
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08-02-2010, 05:27 PM | #13 |
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Location: Ontario, Canada
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
I never knew I could "lock-up and skid all four wheels at 20 mph", until I replaced all worn brake components and adjusted the rods to spec.
Same ol' original setup. Nothin' fancy.
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08-02-2010, 10:37 PM | #14 |
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: Houston Tx.
Posts: 31
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
Hi,
I installed Ted's kit on my 29 Coupe using new cast iron drums and original type lining material. The brakes on my car work very well driving the busy streets of Houston, Texas. They stop as well as my late model Dodge truck even without having a power booster. Maybe needing a bit more pedal pressure. The trick with the setup is to adjust with the fronts to stop before the rears, balanced the way todays cars are set. Ford's original balance was with the with the rears stopping first. This has been illustrated with cars having disc rotors in the front and drums at the rear. This has worked for me. John Wing, Houston, Texas |
08-03-2010, 06:21 AM | #15 |
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Location: New York
Posts: 158
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
Why would anybody want to lock up all four wheels? Isn't this the reason for anti lock brakes on modern cars and aircraft? IMO your not really stopping if your skidding. There is nothing wrong with the stock set up if you set them up the way you're supposed to. Sounds like a poor excuse not to fix your brakes the right way.
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08-03-2010, 09:16 AM | #16 |
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Location: Eastern Tennessee
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
IMO, being able to lock up a set of brakes is the first step to be able to stop because it proves you have capability to excerpt enough pressure on the linings and still have pedal travel available. I will concur that being able to lock the brakes does nothing to allow for brake pedal fade as components become warm after repeated braking however having a Flathead Ted kit does nothing to compensate in that area either.
I guess the biggest thing that FT braking kits have done is caused Model A owners to examine their braking system and learn how the system works. With this added awareness and understanding has brought along the ability for hobbyist to have better brakes whether they use the kit, or just learned how to rebuild what they had. I still remember the night back when I was a kid some 40+ years ago when someone showed the Varco brake bands at a Model A club meeting. I remember the "old men" passing them around the room during the meeting causing a commotion, dropping them on the floor during the meeting making a loud ringing sound, ...and the men being skeptical and/or confused. What a difference they made as these guys started using them. It did put me out of a "job" though, as it was my job prior while we were driving to always keep my hand on the emergency brake and pull it back quickly in case my Dad needed a little more stopping ability. . |
08-03-2010, 09:30 AM | #17 |
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
Brent wrote:"I guess the biggest thing that FT braking kits have done is caused Model A owners to examine their braking system and learn how the system works. With this added awareness and understanding has brought along the ability for hobbyist to have better brakes whether they use the kit, or just learned how to rebuild what they had."
I think you are on to something. For years during the 60's and 70's all I heard about Model A brakes was how bad they were. Well, given the terrible shape they were in after years of neglect, sure they were. But as people correct and set them up as originally designed, many are finding they work pretty darn well. Frankly, after driving my Model A's for thousands of miles with good mechanical brakes, I now get rather nervous when I am in an old car with single master cylinder hydraulics. |
08-03-2010, 07:13 PM | #18 | |
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Location: Savannah, GA
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
Quote:
ABS is the best thing for braking in history, except on gravel where you want to skid the tires to dig down through the loose material to firmer material underneath. Much of America was unpaved in the time the Ford system was designed. The rears grab first, so when they skid, you can threshold brake the pedal to keep the fronts from locking, hence the ability to steer in a panic stop.Without the magic of modern electronics, your best bet to panic stop in 1930 was a skid. Also, Ted's system mimics much of what is stock in the rear brakes of the car. The rear's float, and Ted's system improves on this float, and brings 1937 Bendix full floating technology to the front brakes. BTW, I installed Ted's system 2 years ago. Along with a leakless water pump they are the best money I've spent on my car. Ted was very helpful (I had the old, unimproved, directions) and answered my emails overnight. The story in MODEL A TIMES is also very useful in considering this addition to your car. Remember, the brakes stop the wheel, the tire tread stops the car. |
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08-14-2010, 04:50 PM | #19 |
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Location: Torrington, CT
Posts: 609
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
How do your mechanical brakes work after the 3rd or 4th stop light at 40-45mph? I have had my car for 4 years now. In the past I was happy with the brakes if I used my head But this year I have a little more power and a lighted flywheel and my brakes suck not bad on the flat stops but a big down hill with that bumb ass stop light at the bottom they suck big time. I hate to change the look of my car but I am thinking of going with juice brakes
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08-14-2010, 05:10 PM | #20 |
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Location: Elwood, NY
Posts: 299
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Re: Mechanical Brakes
I recently converted my old steel drum brakes to the cast iron drums with new/old type linings on the shoes. Boy, what a difference! The old, steel drums would start to fade on a hot day and after a number of brake applications. So far, no fading with the cast iron drums. I'm a lot more confident stopping with the cast iron drums.
Rog |
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