Is this a battery problem?

[debra nanlu]

I start the model A after it has been sitting in the garage for a week. It starts right up. I drive it to the mall, three miles away, and after the car sits while I am shopping, the battery is down so low I have to use jumper cables to start it. I drive it home, let it sit for three days and it starts. I drive it to the mall........and the story repeats itself. The light switch is in the off position and the lights are not on. Can a starter pull considerably more amps because it gets hot? Car has a Ron Kelly rebuilt engine, Webber downdraft and a fourspeed. It drives beautifully when it starts. Is my battery bad?
Thanks for your thoughts,
Scott

[Farrell In Vancouver]

Sounds like your genny maybe motoring when your not driving. Check the cutout.

[Kurt in NJ]

what happens if you go for a 3 mile drive, leave the car parked in the driveway for the same amount of time you shop?

Give more of a description of your electrical system ---generator, alternator, 6V, 12V

When you come out and try to start it does it crank slow, or is it seemingly totally dead?

When you park at home do you leave it on a charger (a battery maintainer charger?)

Have you tried different shopping centers, maybe the car doesn't like the one you go to.

[PDXCougfan]

Sounds to me like your starter is on its way out and needs rebuilt. I had the same trouble on my corvette. New starter... no problems since. I think it has something to do with the brushes on the motor shorting out and swelling.. but im not sure.

[J Franklin]

It could be a battery problem. If your battery is marginal it will crank a cold starter easier than a hot starter. Make sure the cut out is working properly. An easy test to check for something draining the charge is to drive it and when you go the required distance shut it off and then try to restart without waiting to walk thru the mall.

[Bob A.]

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"Can a starter pull considerably more amps because it gets hot?"

Yes!

[Purdy Swoft]

When it happens, if the generator is hot to the touch, the points in the cut out is sticking. Reproduction cut outs are mostly junk. I use a Fun Projects voltage regulator.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

the cut out is sticking. .

That's my vote.

[debra nanlu]

Thanks guys. I'm a female and depend on my male neighbors to keep the 'A' running. They are pretty good mechanics but don't know a lot about model As. The electrical system is 6V stock model A. I will try all of the suggestions you have given me. Thank you so much. Don't know what I would do without you.

[Tom Wesenberg]

If the cutout is sticking, then it should be sticking when you drive home, and the battery would be completely dead in a few hours. When you stop the car look at the amp guage. It should be on "0". If the cutout is sticking it would be 5 to 10 amps on the discharge side. That's if the guage is working OK. Some repro guages act very sticky and don't always indicate too well.

If the engine starts within a couple compression strokes, like it should, then it doesn't take but a few minutes to have the battery recharged to full power. If you have to crank the car for several seconds, then a 3 mile drive won't be enough for the battery to fully recover, but a good battery should still start the car.

If cranking draws 150 amps and you have to crank for 3 seconds to start the car, then it would take 150 seconds ( 2 1/2 minutes) of running at a 3 amp charge to replenish the battery. So, you can see if you had to crank for 15 seconds, you'd have to drive for 2 1/2 minutes at 15 amp charge, or 12 1/2 minutes at a 3 amp charge. A 15 amp charge is overloading the generator an would be too much for the battery anyway. This is why I only run a generator with an EVR. It takes care of the proper charge at all times. As soon as the engine starts the generator will put out about 8 to 10 amps, then quickly tapper back as the battery is recharged.

If you're unsure when the starter was last taken apart, now would be the time to do it to make sure the brushes and bushings are good, and to replace them as needed. Also have the battery load tested to make sure it's good.

[TedG]

Originally Posted by PDXCougfan

Sounds to me like your starter is on its way out and needs rebuilt. I had the same trouble on my corvette. New starter... no problems since. I think it has something to do with the brushes on the motor shorting out and swelling.. but im not sure.

Don't know about the Model A starter but from personal experience with Chevies with the Hot start problem it's usually because the brushes are worn down so badly once the springs get warm they don't have enough tension to press them against the commutator, new brushes generally fix the problem..

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by TedG

Don't know about the Model A starter but from personal experience with Chevies with the Hot start problem it's usually because the brushes are worn down so badly once the springs get warm they don't have enough tension to press them against the commutator, new brushes generally fix the problem..

Luckily the ground brushes usually wear out faster than the field brushes, so you may get by with just replacing the two ground brushes and not have to cut and solder the field brushes. I often see the ground brushes wear almost twice as quickly as the field brushes, so if you're lucky enough to get by with just replacing the 2 ground brushes you'll get by for many years, and the next rebuild will require all 4 brushes be replaced.

[Rusty Homestead Fl]

I've had weak batteries that would fire up a cold engine but fail to turn over a warmed up one. Maybe you could pull the battery and have it tested.

[Purdy Swoft]

Here is another real possibility. If the timing is just a LITTLE fast or advanced it will cause the starter to kick back when the engine is warmed up and it will act like the battery is too weak to turn the engine over. This condition will also bend the starter armature. I have a small box of bent armatures that was caused by my daughter forgetting to retard the spark on her model A when she was a kid.

[Benson]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

Here is another real possibility. If the timing is just a LITTLE fast or advanced it will cause the starter to kick back when the engine is warmed up and it will act like the battery is too weak to turn the engine over. This condition will also bend the starter armature. I have a small box of bent armatures that was caused by my daughter forgetting to retard the spark on her model A when she was a kid.

Debra,

The next time the engine balks at starting ... turn off the ignition and if it cranks normally with ignition off then the problem is just what Purdy says!

[johnbuckley]

poor performance from starter when hot could also be a poor earth connection to/from battery/starter.
And just as an added extra I reckon all Model A should have a battery master switch fitted.

[Preacher]

all really good info above. If I can add to them: remove and clean the battery terminal connections & load test the battery while disconnected.

[Bill Steiner]

Does not sound like cutout problem. It would do it at home to. The first thing is to have a very good batt. If that is done the next thing is the condition of the starter. Bill