Go Back   The Ford Barn > General Discussion > Model A (1928-31)

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-28-2012, 05:21 AM   #1
norway
Member
 
norway's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: norway
Posts: 40
Default High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

Hey, i have one old ford 1929 pickup, and i need 12v starter.
my engine is converted to 12v.
so I searched for a new starter motor to a ford which is 12v.
and then I found this starter at autoelectricsupplies.co.uk



this is the information about the starter.
Ford Model A


High Torque Starter Motor to fit Ford Model A from 1920's/30's. Available in either 12V or 6V. Spigot diameter 95mm, gear diameter 40mm.
  • Original starter weight 7kg
  • Powerlite starter weight 3.8kg
  • Power 1kW
  • 10 Teeth
RAC464 Ford Model A - 12V £150.00 each


has anyone tested this starter? or do you see that this is not going to fit.
Regards, ford model a boy from norway.
__________________
i'm stuck in norway
norway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 07:52 AM   #2
Logan
Senior Member
 
Logan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Fort Worth, Texas
Posts: 1,055
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

You can use the stock 6 volt starter on the 12 volts. It won't hurt it, it'll just spin twice as fast
__________________
Cowtown A's
Logan is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Old 10-28-2012, 08:32 AM   #3
Purdy Swoft
Senior Member
 
Purdy Swoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8,099
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

Logan is right on. I've been running my roadster on 12 volts with the original starter and generator for years with no problem. As long as you leave it positive ground, the biggest thing is just installing a twelve volt battery and either useing a 3.0 ohm coil or a ballast resistor on the six volt coil. If you chose to run negative ground, you will need to reverse the wires behind the ammeter and on the coil.

The original starter is very robust , It will pull the car along in high gear much like a golf cart, even with six volts, you just can't go very far.
Purdy Swoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 08:53 AM   #4
MikeK
Senior Member
 
MikeK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Windy City
Posts: 2,919
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan View Post
You can use the stock 6 volt starter on the 12 volts. It won't hurt it, it'll just spin twice as fast
Twice as fast? I don't think so. Given 6V and 125A cranking draw, that works out to 0.048 Ohms and 750 watts. 746 watts = one horsepower, so that's what you have on 6V. That same 0.048 Ohm starter motor on 12V will draw 250A, but the output power, calculated as Amps squared x Ohms, = 3000. Divided by 746 that's a bit over FOUR horsepower. Four times as much as the same starter on 6V. Some guys do it, but it really slams the starter drive and ring gear. Also, a 5/8" shaft is pretty weenie for 4 HP.

Changing the starter field wiring from two parallel coils to series is not a big deal, and you'll still end up with way more power. After this conversion you will draw a bit over 150A @ 12V, giving you 1800 watts, about 2.4 horsepower. That's way more than those spendy, fancy gear drive converts.

You can get away with using a 6V starter on 12V if you use a 4' x 6ga lead wire to the starter. Your draw will be about 165A, ~2.6 hp. You'll have to fold up and wire-tie the excess. The disadvantage here is you can only crank 20-30 seconds. That 6ga wire will get hot! Of course, that's not a real problem 'cause A's are known for starting right up on the first crank.
MikeK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 09:03 AM   #5
Cajun
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Plano, Texas
Posts: 104
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

I think what Purdy was saying that it works well.
Cajun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 09:03 AM   #6
BCCHOPIT
Senior Member
 
BCCHOPIT's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Torrington, CT
Posts: 609
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
Save your money...
I drive mine weekly and have has O problems with 12 volts to the 6 volt starter. Its been this way for 4+ years now. My dads willys jeep has been using 12 volts on his 6 volt starter for over 30 years

I have even driven my car into the shop on the starter in a jam
__________________
WAC that banger in the A$$ and drive it home hard
http://waccustoms.com
BCCHOPIT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 10:27 AM   #7
2manycars
Senior Member
 
2manycars's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Eastern CT
Posts: 2,732
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

Using 12 volts on the 6 volt starter will eventually damage the starter drive. The starter drive slams into the ring gear at a greater force with 12 volts. Other than that, it will work fine, negative or positive ground, as the starter is series wound, and will only turn one way, regardless of polarity.
2manycars is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 12:43 PM   #8
Jim Brierley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 4,066
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

I've been running 12 volts on the stock starter since the 50's, guess I'm too dumb to know better, but have had no problems with it. Having said that, starters like you show are available over here too, and work well.
Jim Brierley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 12:53 PM   #9
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,374
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

To answer the ORIGINAL question.
Gear drive starters work very well on "A's" or early Ford V8's.
I use them on all the engines I build.
They are around $100 over here.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 02:15 PM   #10
Bob C
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: So Cal
Posts: 8,713
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

With the gear drive starter do you have to do anything to the flywheel gear since
the starter gear is coming in from the other side??

Bob
Bob C is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2012, 02:34 PM   #11
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,374
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

No, the gear on the starter is beveled.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 01:22 PM   #12
Farrell In Vancouver
Senior Member
 
Farrell In Vancouver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pitt Meadows BC
Posts: 1,003
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

Does this type of starter stay engaged at all times? There does not seem to be much room on the saft for the gear to move in or out.
Farrell In Vancouver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 01:26 PM   #13
Pete
Senior Member
 
Pete's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Wa.
Posts: 5,374
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrell In Vancouver View Post
Does this type of starter stay engaged at all times? There does not seem to be much room on the saft for the gear to move in or out.
No.
It is shifted with a solenoid.
Pete is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 04:45 PM   #14
Crazydaddyo
Senior Member
 
Crazydaddyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Orange, Ca.
Posts: 197
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post
To answer the ORIGINAL question.
Gear drive starters work very well on "A's" or early Ford V8's.
I use them on all the engines I build.
They are around $100 over here.

Were can you get them for $100?

Thanks.

.
Crazydaddyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-29-2012, 11:30 PM   #15
Dodge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Sonoma, CA.
Posts: 1,491
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

I've been using 12volts on 6 volt starters for years with an old bendix spring bolted
to the post on the starter and the battery cable on the other end, it acts like a big
restistor and gives about 8 volts to the starter makes em start real well and doesn't
beat up the starter.
Dodge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 11:16 AM   #16
norway
Member
 
norway's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: norway
Posts: 40
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

I got my ford starter yesterday.
I made a movie of how it fit/work. I have not tested it.
youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1QSlwaUm3I
__________________
i'm stuck in norway
norway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 01:42 PM   #17
Jordan
Senior Member
 
Jordan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Ft. Worth
Posts: 1,006
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by norway View Post
I got my ford starter yesterday.
I made a movie of how it fit/work. I have not tested it.
youtube video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1QSlwaUm3I
Let us know how it works. I'm not into judging so I don't care if it looks original because I never open my hood up. For $100, that's cheaper than shipping one and having it rebuilt, and this thing is a whole NEW unit. Does it come with a warranty?
__________________
Cowtown A's
Jordan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 01:47 PM   #18
Purdy Swoft
Senior Member
 
Purdy Swoft's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Alabama
Posts: 8,099
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cajun View Post
I think what Purdy was saying that it works well.
That is what I was saying. I just couldn't resist pointing out how the original generator also works well on 12 volts and how to set it up. The starter doesn't care whether it is hooked up positive or negative ground. If the original generator is hooked up positive ground, it will run 12 volt with no modification and all of the original wireing will work without any modification.
Purdy Swoft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 02:41 PM   #19
Farrell In Vancouver
Senior Member
 
Farrell In Vancouver's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pitt Meadows BC
Posts: 1,003
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

I am a little confused (as usual), the video shows the solenoid action (by hand) will push the drive into the unbeveled side of the ring gear. The bendix on the Model A starter will pull the drive gear back to the beveled teeth on the ring gear. Would it not be smart to reverse the ring gear on the flywheel?
Farrell In Vancouver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-22-2012, 02:52 PM   #20
norway
Member
 
norway's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: norway
Posts: 40
Default Re: High Torque Starter 12v to Ford Model A

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farrell In Vancouver View Post
I am a little confused (as usual), the video shows the solenoid action (by hand) will push the drive into the unbeveled side of the ring gear. The bendix on the Model A starter will pull the drive gear back to the beveled teeth on the ring gear. Would it not be smart to reverse the ring gear on the flywheel?
It can be smart, but I will test the starter with a battery and see how the starter turns out.

starter has warranty I think.
__________________
i'm stuck in norway
norway is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:03 PM.