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Old 11-11-2017, 12:57 PM   #1
Charlville
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Default Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

I thought I'd share this video from SimonLewsBooks on YouTube.

Various Model A's tackling the trial course!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSDQ4BcIiWc&t=44s
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Old 11-11-2017, 01:43 PM   #2
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

Great! Nice to see the younger folk and women behind the wheels.....
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Old 11-11-2017, 05:19 PM   #3
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

By the sound of the motors they are all the UK under-powered version?
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Old 11-11-2017, 05:49 PM   #4
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

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By the sound of the motors they are all the UK under-powered version?
Are they still trying to save on tax?

Must be because of Brexit.
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Old 11-12-2017, 04:59 AM   #5
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

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....by the sound of the motors they are all the UK under-powered version?
No, I can assure you all these are the standard 3.875 inch bore (3285cc) engine. Very few of the small bore engines are still around over here... (we reckon only 40-50) see the club website www.mafcgb.org.uk for the archived data base of known Model As in the UK.
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Old 11-12-2017, 08:03 AM   #6
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

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I noticed several cars were left hand drive. I also noticed the red phaeton appeared to have dual SU carbs, which I have often thought of fitting. Maybe a pair from a A-H 3000, or from a Rover 3.5.
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Old 11-13-2017, 05:00 AM   #7
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

As John rightly says the majority of A's over here have the larger engine as they are imports, including mine. As for Brexit we've got about as much idea as our government which = 0
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Old 11-13-2017, 06:52 AM   #8
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

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I noticed several cars were left hand drive. I also noticed the red phaeton appeared to have dual SU carbs, which I have often thought of fitting. Maybe a pair from a A-H 3000, or from a Rover 3.5.
FWIW, I think if you do that, you will be over doing the carburation. Those engines are close to the same size as the Model A but rev MUCH higher. As a guide, when I was looking for a down draught carburetor for my A, I multiplied the engine capacity by the max revs for the two and compared that.
I chose a Stromberg from a 1950's Holden. The Holden motor was about 2.3 litres and revved to about 5K 2.3x 5000= 11,500. The Model A motor is 3.3 litres and revs to say, 3,000 rpm. 3.3x 3000=9,900. The Holden carby was PLENTY big enough but not so over sized that the lower end of the rev range was compromised. Many people use a carby that is too large and spoil the "driveability" of the car
It's a quick and simple way to determine whether a carby is suited to a different motor.
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Last edited by Synchro909; 11-13-2017 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 11-13-2017, 07:27 AM   #9
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

You've peaked my interest So would that Holden be a six similar to the Chevy Stovebolt or even a Vauxhall over here?
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:08 AM   #10
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

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FWIW, I think if you do that, you will be over doing the carbonation. Those engines are close to the same size as the Model A but rev MUCH higher. As a guide, when I was looking for a down draught carburetor for my A, I multiplied the engine capacity by the max revs for the two and compared that.
I chose a Stromberg from a 1950's Holden. The Holden motor was about 2.3 litres and revved to about 5K 2.3x 5000= 11,500. The Model A motor is 3.3 litres and revs to say, 3,000 rpm. 3.3x 3000=9,900. The Holden carby was PLENTY big enough but not so over sized that the lower end of the rev range was compromised. Many people use a carby that is too large and spoil the "driveability" of the car
It's a quick and simple way to determine whether a carby is suited to a different motor.
Thanks for that info. I have noticed that problem when people have fitted a weber progressive 2 barrel carb to their MGB. They fall flat until RPM is at mid range.
Perhaps a pair of MGB SU carbs would be enough. 1.8 x 5000 comes to 9000, which should work fine.
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:43 PM   #11
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

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You've peaked my interest So would that Holden be a six similar to the Chevy Stovebolt or even a Vauxhall over here?
Never heard of a Chev Stovebolt but I think the Vauxhalls were similar. They were a 2.3 litre six cylinder OHV motor used by Holden from 1948 till about 1963. Being a GM product, I wouldn't be surprised if the Stovebolt was very similar.
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Old 11-13-2017, 03:55 PM   #12
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

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Thanks for that info. I have noticed that problem when people have fitted a weber progressive 2 barrel carb to their MGB. They fall flat until RPM is at mid range.
Perhaps a pair of MGB SU carbs would be enough. 1.8 x 5000 comes to 9000, which should work fine.
As soon as I posted, I thought I should have mentioned that a progressive carby shouldn't be so bad but still to be watched. An engine being "flat" till higher revs are attained can be due to the cam grind also. One often sees an inexperienced "go fast" car owner over do it with both carb and cam, an easy mistake for the over zealous but to be avoided.
Perhaps a member who has competed in a Model A could confirm that, maybe Jim Brierly?
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

" ... I have noticed that problem when people have fitted a weber progressive 2 barrel carb to their MGB. They fall flat until RPM is at mid range."

Maybe the intake manifold is too big? I thought the idea of the side draught was to remove the bends in the intake manifold and make it more responsive.

My understanding, from nowhere in particular, was that the Holden 6 was just a variation of the Chevy 6 (stovebolt?) from the late 20's.

However, the font of all knowledge Wikipedia, says:

" The engine was based on a Buick pre-World War II design, and saw only minor changes throughout its 15-year life."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_straight-six_motor

An advert from 1964 with the new redesigned "red" engine:

https://www.uniquecarsandparts.com.a...Red_Motor.webm
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:37 PM   #14
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

I thought it was a fun video and would have no idea on how to drive my car in the mud. But, I assume all of the bouncing was to gain traction-or just for fun.

Mike
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Old 11-13-2017, 11:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

Those were the types of roads the "A" was built for..... AMEN!
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:24 AM   #16
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

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I thought it was a fun video and would have no idea on how to drive my car in the mud. But, I assume all of the bouncing was to gain traction-or just for fun.
Mike
If the bouncing is correctly synchronised it helps traction a lot, also the tires are generally dropped to about 12 psi ;glue on the rims helps the tire from slipping round. All good ( but not clean!) fun
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:18 AM   #17
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

Some more trials background:

http://www.vscc.co.uk/page/trials

Here's a Model A Special Trials Car

http://teamtwirp.co.uk/the-cars1/for...al-trials-car/

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Old 11-14-2017, 07:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

John is quite correct about bouncing to aid traction but bouncing also slows the car down so a delicate balance is needed to achieve forward motion and speed. After many years of trialing I realise its a black art perfected by few but enjoyed by many, certainly the greatest fun available on four wheels and includes all the family if they willing to get down dirty on a wet weekend.
Picture attached of last weekend's fun in The Lake District.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 37653006074_826d15d414_z.jpg (164.3 KB, 36 views)
File Type: jpg 38366883801_3b47faa87b_z.jpg (157.4 KB, 35 views)
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Old 11-14-2017, 07:53 AM   #19
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

Hi Nosbod

How do you set the cars up spring/shocker wise or is it all standard stuff?

Cheers

Kevin
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:02 AM   #20
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Default Re: Vintage Fords on VSCC Welsh Trial 2017

Hi Kevin,

There are basically two classes, standard and modified. I run in the standard long wheelbase class which allows no changes from original including tyre and wheel sizes, engine suspension etc. This class is virtually a Model A benefit which is a great challenge as only 27 points covered the whole class last weekend on The Lakes. the green Phaeton next to mine is modified so can leave off the bumpers, use bigger tyres, tune the engine and add ballast etc. This for me is not the spirit of the event but its whatever turns you on. Long may it continue!

John
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