3.54 and a Columbia?

[Steve in Denver]

My ’36 has a 3.54 rear end. At 60 mph I am taching 3000 RPMs and the engine sounds like that is all it has. It sounds like it wants a 4th gear to keep up with modern traffic at 70 mph.

But all the old timers say I need a 3.78. Sounds like that will defeat the purpose. I don’t drive it in the mountains or anything like that and it does just fine unless I am on the interstate. I just need a 4th gear.

[drolston]

I had the same the same feeling about the engine working too hard above 60 on the Interstate. Considered the Columbia or Mitchell overdrive but took the cheap and easy way out, with 3.25 rear end gears and bigger tires on the back. RPM about 2300 at 65 on the highway, which is comfortable. With a 284 inch engine with lots of torque, there is no problem in traffic or starting on hills. I would not go to 3.25 gears on a 221 inch engine, and borderline with a 239 inch engine.

[Bored&Stroked]

The real question for me is whether or not you'll have enough torque to pull the resulting 2.54 gear - that is a very steep gear to pull unless you have a lot of torque. I'm sure you'd have a lot of difficulty trying to pull any real hill (I don't see it as possible with the Columbia).

I'm curious what size tire you're running in the rear? Doing some basic calcs, seems to me you'd be going faster than 60 mph at 3000 rpm with a 3.54 gear (but I don't know you tire size).

[deuce_roadster]

I have a 3.63 in the Columbia in my 40 coupe. It is has a 59 series engine, 3 3/16 bore with 4" crank, mild cam and Holley 4bbl. It works very well in this area (lots of hills). I found a NOS 3.63 R&P and decided to try it, slightly lower then a 3.54. That ratio is for a 41 6 cylinder car.

[blucar]

My '36 has a 3.78 with a Columbia, 600 X 16 tires. The engine is a well built 59 AB that has always ran very well, especially on the open road. I would think that a 3.54 would be a little high for a stock 221 and or 239, especially in the mountainous areas.
I have always loved my Columbia, I have good gearing options for my street racing days and good cruising options for the open road. In my younger years I put a lot of miles on the car on the open road cruising at 65/70 mph.

I have my Columbia hooked up so I can chose what ratio I want, low, low-over, second, second-over, in other words, I have six ratios available to me.

[Tim Ayers]

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Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I have a 3.63 in the Columbia in my 40 coupe. It is has a 59 series engine, 3 3/16 bore with 4" crank, mild cam and Holley 4bbl. It works very well in this area (lots of hills). I found a NOS 3.63 R&P and decided to try it, slightly lower then a 3.54. That ratio is for a 41 6 cylinder car.

Interesting. That ratio does sound like a good 1/2 way between the two ratios.

I also agree that the RPM's sound to be on the high side @ 60 with a 3.54 ratio.

[solidaxle]

If you like the way it pulls the way it is. The 3:54 in the Columbia would only improve things.However, if you do venture west of Denver the 3:74's or 4:11's might be more suited for the climb up Rt 70. and still give you more top speed on the flats then what you have now. According to the Columbia chart, using the transmission 28 tooth count and High gear columns. The direct drive High ratio is 3:54 with 3:54 gears. Now compare that to the 2:73 ratio with 3:78 gears in overdrive. You are still way ahead of the game with the 3:74's for more top end.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

I found a NOS 3.63 R&P and decided to try it, slightly lower then a 3.54. That ratio is for a 41 6 cylinder car.

That sure 'learned' me somethin' I didn't know! DD
.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by blucar

My '36 has a 3.78 with a Columbia, 600 X 16 tires. The engine is a well built 59 AB that has always ran very well, especially on the open road. I would think that a 3.54 would be a little high for a stock 221 and or 239, especially in the mountainous areas.
I have always loved my Columbia, I have good gearing options for my street racing days and good cruising options for the open road. In my younger years I put a lot of miles on the car on the open road cruising at 65/70 mph. I have my Columbia hooked up so I can chose what ratio I want, low, low-over, second, second-over, in other words, I have six ratios available to me.

blucar has the winning combination in my book! > 3.78 with a Columbia, 600 X 16 tires

[Ford Freak]

I have a 221 stocker w/ 3:54 & 27 in. tall rear tires. I know that @ 3000 rpm I am doing 68-70 mph.

[jimTN]

I tried a 3:78 with a columbia several years ago with a good 60 over 59AB and it worked fairly well with 750 15s in a 40 cpe. Engine was truly extremely quiet. That was before interstates so there were hills to climb.

[HDowse]

Steve, try this calculator: http://www.advanced-ev.com/Calculators/TireSize/
If you put in 3.54, 28.3” for 600x16 tires and 60 mph, you'll get around 2500 rpm. Try working some additional numbers. My 40 Fordor came with a 4.11 and I bought the Mitchell 26% and it’s pretty good at 60. Fine for here in NH. 3.54 and 26% would give you a comfortable 70, if you want to go that fast. ;-)

[flatmotor40]

I have a 36% Mitchell in mine and a 378 rear gear works fine

[blucar]

Rereading the original posting by Steve, wherein he stated, " my '36 has a 3.54 rear end. At 60 mph I am taching 3000 rpm"...
Reading the Columbia Chart posted by 'Pertehoovie' it would appear that Steve's '36 has 4.11 ratio and or smaller tires than 600 x 16 28.3" tires, it is also possible that the trans in the '36 has a lower ratio than 28-29.
I know the trans ratio in my '36 is 28 tooth, the trans is a '47-48 column shift. In years gone bye I played with the trans ratio, even tried 25 & 26 tooth gear sets, bad idea. The ring pinion in my car is the original 3.78 that came in the car.
Another variable is that Steve's car has the wrong speedo gear sender.. a 3.78 is 9-34 a 4.11 is 9-37. and a 3.54 is 39-11.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by blucar

Rereading the original posting by Steve, wherein he stated, " my '36 has a 3.54 rear end. At 60 mph I am taching 3000 rpm"...
it is also possible that the trans in the '36 has a lower ratio than 28-29.
.

The transmission ratio for 1st and 2nd gear will not influence the top-speed or RPMs in 3rd - as it is straight through (1 to 1) at that point.

[Ford Freak]

When I had 4:11's in my car w/27 in. tall tires I was going about 58 mph. @ 3000 rpm's.
I think he might have 4:11's in his car, too. - F F

[Steve in Denver]

I am going to take the rear end apart in a week or two and I will find out exactly what gears I have. I know the gears could have been changed but the numbers on the rear axle housing look like 11-39. 39/11=3.5454

I have been in a '36 with a 4.11 and mine sounds completely different at 60 than his did. I also have 6.50 tires on the back and an 8BA.

[SUHRsc]

I have a 35 Roadster that was marked 4.11 and had the speedometer drive for a 4.11, I had never driven a bigger Ford car like this when i bought it and was surprised at how slow it seemed. It was pushing harder then i expected at 65mph. Turns out once I checked with a GPS speedometer that it actually had 3.54 gears but nothing else changed. Its such a nice driving car that it just felt slow based on the speedometer reading. I still have no idea of the RPM's but it will easily drive a "real" 65mph and has no problem accelerating to 90mph on occasion. The car has a stock .030 over LB engine and 6.00x16 tires. Just some perspective that may help.

Zach

[Ford Freak]

My banjo had numbers stamped on the bottom that indicated that it had 4:44's. I found it had 4:11's in it. Lots of things got changed around over the years, particually on non-original cars. I really like the 3:54's I have in it now! - F F

[Ol' Ron]

The only problem I see with the Columbia is, cost and reliability. Buying one is expensive. If it doesn't need any work done, your golden. However if it must be rebuilt and improved for reliability . more cost. Now you have a very old rear axle system and bearings. ETC. I spent 3 weeks with Paul Garagan in the Colorado mountiand with his 284ci 34 roadster with a Columbia. We went places mountain goats feared to thread, including a trip up independence pass (12,000 ft) . Without a problem, I commuted on that. He said never again, shudda gone with a Mitchel in the first place, allot cheaper. Several years lathe I went to Bvill with JWL. 40 sedan and a Mitchel , 5000 total miles, not a problem. so you take your choice.
ramps