The Ford Barn

Logan · 06-23-2013, 04:21 PM

Well yesterday morning i tore apart my motor that has been giving me so much trouble from Taylor Made Motors in New Braunfels Texas. What i found was what i thought it was, piston slap. I took some photos, and i will share the link to the photo bucket album that i made for this motor. I for some reason can never get photos to upload on this website from my computer. If someone can take my photos from photo bucket and upload them to this thread, i give them full permission to do so.

Piston slap wasnt the only thing i found though. Some of the stuff in the motor, wasnt as it was suppose to be. James Taylor advertises that he only uses the top quality parts so that he can provide the best motor possible... Well what i had was a fiber timing gear, which is okay but not something you want in a motor you plan on driving across country in. He advertises that he installs aluminum timing gears, but i was told that i was getting a bronze gear because he liked those more at the time my engine was being built. I was also told several several times that he instals the new High pressure oil pumps in his motors. He wanted to be sure that all his motors had sufficient oil at all rpms. I can not physically prove that it was suppose to have a high pressure pump though. Because this was only told to me from him over conversations on the phone. He said he didnt raise his prices when he started using these pumps, because he felt like he didnt want to charge more, and by installing these pumps he was taking $200 out of his profit to ensure the quality of his motor. Well what i got was a stock rebuilt oil pump. Which works fine, but i expected to open it up and find one of the new pumps like i was told i was going to get.

As far as the bearings, some looked okay, and some i am concerned about. The rear main bearing has some weird pitting in it, and it doesnt seem to have a normal wear pattern. Some of the engine builders on here can take a look at it and tell me what they think. Also another thing i thought was kind of weird was the fact that there were no shims in this motor anywhere. The bearings that were used were from AER in skokie. I'm not sure if there are no shims because the bearings can come out, and be replaced with different sizes to compensate for wear, or if he just simply felt like building a motor with no shims in it.

This piston that failed was scared pretty badly. About the worst that i had ever seen. the piston pretty well fell out of the block without hardly any pushing on my part to force it out. when i took the piston and rod out, i held the piston and rod parallel to the floor, and the rod wouldnt fall with gravity if that makes sense. In order for the rod to move i had to forcibly flick my wrist as hard as i could, and the rod would fall about half way, then i would flick it again, and it would fall the rest of the way. also the wristpin had no side to side movements. it was frozen in place. I havent taken the pistons off the rods yet, but the wrist pin on piston 3 is as purple as it can get. Another thing that kind of concerns me is all the rods were discolored and some what purple by the wrist pins. I dont know if this is normal for these rods, since they are brand new, and made of a different material from originals. This is the first time ive messed with a motor using these rods, and AER bearings. So im not real sure of how everything is "suppose" to look after some wear and tear. I'm afraid that all the wristpin fits were to tight, and this is what is causing the discoloring in the rods.

As far as the rest of the motor, it was about as i expected. There was Gasket maker/sealer in every nook and cranny you could imagine. The valve chamber cover had a blob of the gasket maker about 3 inches long and probable 2 inches wide. Im not sure why there is a big blob of it in there, because it doesnt seem to have a crack. Also 2 of the 3 ears holding the threaded part for the oil return tube were cracked from over tightening the bolt. I'm one of those people who likes to use as little gasket maker/sealer as possible so that it doesnt get into the oil passages and clog them up. I also removed all the head studs with my fingers with the head still on the block. I know this is "okay" but i would feel more comfortable with the head studs snug in the block rather than loose. The camshaft also had some rust on it. Which pretty much just shows that it was sitting out for some time. And i'm pretty sure everyone will agree that there shouldnt be any rust inside a motor at all.

But thats pretty much it, i'm sure im forgetting some stuff but here is the link to the pictures. Like i said, if someone can take them and post them on this thread, i would appreciate it. I'm 20 years old, and i must have been playing with model a's to much growing up, because i understand less about computers than just about anyone i know. Anyways, all thats left is to get all the machine work checked, have the cylinders rebored, and i guess put it back together and hope it last longer than the first time... all of 1500 miles this past time after it lost piston #3 the first go around. The first time piston #3 failed was at about 200 miles on the motor.

Here is the link: just copy and paste into your website bar. http://s1317.photobucket.com/user/Lo...glass/library/

700rpm · 06-23-2013, 04:31 PM

Your photos have to be less than 575k each. jpgs work best.

Joe K · 06-23-2013, 04:37 PM

Sorta looks like it got warm.

Use the address under "Direct" Click on it to copy directly to your clipboard. Image insertion using the quick reply (2nd icon from right) works.

Joe K

zzlegend · 06-23-2013, 04:41 PM

That piston,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well,,,,,,,, ,it looks rather beat.
Wish you well resolving this Logan.

WTSHNN · 06-23-2013, 04:41 PM

Teach you to fish...

Go to photobucket, hover over the thumbnail of the picture, a little star appears in the top right thumbnail. Click it, select "get links", copy the "Direct" link.

Come back to Fordbarn, click on the icon above the "Reply" part that looks like this...

Paste the link into the window that pops up. You'll get this and it is all done.

-Tim

Gary in MN · 06-23-2013, 04:55 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Here are a few more of your pictures. Gary in MNLogan's pics (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 2 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 3 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 4 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 5 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 6 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 7 (Medium).jpg

Gary in MN · 06-23-2013, 05:11 PM

And a few more pictures. Gary in MN

Logan's pics 8 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 9 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 10 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 11 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 12 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 13 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 15 (Medium).jpg

Gary in MN · 06-23-2013, 05:13 PM

This should be all of them. Gary In MN.

Logan's pics 14 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 16 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 17 (Medium).jpg

Logan's pics 18 (Medium).jpg

George Miller · 06-24-2013, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary in MN

This should be all of them. Gary In MN.

Attachment 135012

Attachment 135013

Attachment 135014

Attachment 135015

That one main bearing looks like it was not getting much oil. That is not a high pressure pump in the picture.

deuce5wndw · 06-23-2013, 04:51 PM

Logan, I think the pistons used are press fit instead of the floating pins and the blue on the rods is from heating them to press the pins in. Dale

Ed H. · 06-23-2013, 05:36 PM

Certainly troubling when you put your trust and money into someone only to find out it was the wrong decision.
I hope this issue can be resolved without a hassle.
Wishing you good luck.

James Rogers · 06-23-2013, 06:23 PM

Insert motors are always built without shims just like a modern engine. The blue on the top of the rods is from the rod heater they used to install them. As for the piston, I will reserve an opinion on that till later. I will say I have seen this 3 other times and can probably tell you what happened. The bearings look pretty good for inserts and if you tear down a rebuilt 350 chevy with 500 miles on it, the bearings will look much like these.

James Rogers · 06-23-2013, 06:54 PM

I believe you need to have someone look at this motor that knows how inserted motors are done and knows about engines in general. As far as this "he said, she said", if you don't have his comments on paper and it signed BY HIM, these comments are moot. I don't believe, from your comments here, you know much about how an inserted engine is done and need some experienced help with eyes on suggestions. No matter what kind of guarantee you may have gotten from him, it is over now since you dismantled the engine without his consent.

Logan · 06-23-2013, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Rogers

I believe you need to have someone look at this motor that knows how inserted motors are done and knows about engines in general. As far as this "he said, she said", if you don't have his comments on paper and it signed BY HIM, these comments are moot. I don't believe, from your comments here, you know much about how an inserted engine is done and need some experienced help with eyes on suggestions. No matter what kind of guarantee you may have gotten from him, it is over now since you dismantled the engine without his consent.

I've done plenty of motor work before, just never any with this style of rod and insert. Although i am by no means an "expert" in the motor field. And trust me when I say, I voided no warranty by taking this apart because there is no warranty with his motors. He advertises a warranty, and even told me "as long as you keep oil and water in it I will warranty it for life". But he wouldnt warranty it the first time the piston failed. So after it did it a second time, I didn't even call him. Not to mention he's just a pain in the butt do business with, he doesn't want to do anything on any type of timeline. Just when he's good and ready to do it. I'm going to have all of the machine work checked by a guy here in Texas, and have him re-bore the cylinders and then I'll get new pistons for it. Then put it together again, and hopefully it last longer than it has the last two times. The reason I posted these pictures were because people asked for them once I took it apart. If anybody wants to know the story behind this thread. They can search the motor builders name in the search option above and find my thread from last week.

Bob C · 06-23-2013, 07:32 PM

Are those Chevy pistons?

Bob

Tom Wesenberg · 06-24-2013, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

Are those Chevy pistons?

Bob

Yes

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 06-24-2013, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob C

Are those Chevy pistons?

Bob

Not any more!!

Logan · 06-24-2013, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Not any more!!

I got a good chuckle at this

columbiA · 06-23-2013, 11:03 PM

It appears the pistons were fitted with not enough clearance & the bores picked up metal from the pistons.I dont think the cyls are scored but just need the aluminum removed & the cyls honed to give correct clearance for new pistons.In my opinion,a properly rebuilt stock engine makes a great "touring" engine.My stock,except for 5.9 head 33 B engine still runs the original babbit & has been a great long distance driver.

40 Deluxe · 06-24-2013, 12:33 AM

I'd say the piston damage was caused by a seized wrist pin. This causes the rod to jam the piston into the cylinder wall with high force, squeezing out the oil film and scoring the piston. I've seen this on late model engines where the pin was either too tight or assembled dry or sat a long time before being started. It takes some running time before any oil is splashed onto the pin area and finds its way into pin bore.

06-23-2013, 04:21 PM	#1
Logan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fort Worth, Texas Posts: 1,055	Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty Well yesterday morning i tore apart my motor that has been giving me so much trouble from Taylor Made Motors in New Braunfels Texas. What i found was what i thought it was, piston slap. I took some photos, and i will share the link to the photo bucket album that i made for this motor. I for some reason can never get photos to upload on this website from my computer. If someone can take my photos from photo bucket and upload them to this thread, i give them full permission to do so. Piston slap wasnt the only thing i found though. Some of the stuff in the motor, wasnt as it was suppose to be. James Taylor advertises that he only uses the top quality parts so that he can provide the best motor possible... Well what i had was a fiber timing gear, which is okay but not something you want in a motor you plan on driving across country in. He advertises that he installs aluminum timing gears, but i was told that i was getting a bronze gear because he liked those more at the time my engine was being built. I was also told several several times that he instals the new High pressure oil pumps in his motors. He wanted to be sure that all his motors had sufficient oil at all rpms. I can not physically prove that it was suppose to have a high pressure pump though. Because this was only told to me from him over conversations on the phone. He said he didnt raise his prices when he started using these pumps, because he felt like he didnt want to charge more, and by installing these pumps he was taking $200 out of his profit to ensure the quality of his motor. Well what i got was a stock rebuilt oil pump. Which works fine, but i expected to open it up and find one of the new pumps like i was told i was going to get. As far as the bearings, some looked okay, and some i am concerned about. The rear main bearing has some weird pitting in it, and it doesnt seem to have a normal wear pattern. Some of the engine builders on here can take a look at it and tell me what they think. Also another thing i thought was kind of weird was the fact that there were no shims in this motor anywhere. The bearings that were used were from AER in skokie. I'm not sure if there are no shims because the bearings can come out, and be replaced with different sizes to compensate for wear, or if he just simply felt like building a motor with no shims in it. This piston that failed was scared pretty badly. About the worst that i had ever seen. the piston pretty well fell out of the block without hardly any pushing on my part to force it out. when i took the piston and rod out, i held the piston and rod parallel to the floor, and the rod wouldnt fall with gravity if that makes sense. In order for the rod to move i had to forcibly flick my wrist as hard as i could, and the rod would fall about half way, then i would flick it again, and it would fall the rest of the way. also the wristpin had no side to side movements. it was frozen in place. I havent taken the pistons off the rods yet, but the wrist pin on piston 3 is as purple as it can get. Another thing that kind of concerns me is all the rods were discolored and some what purple by the wrist pins. I dont know if this is normal for these rods, since they are brand new, and made of a different material from originals. This is the first time ive messed with a motor using these rods, and AER bearings. So im not real sure of how everything is "suppose" to look after some wear and tear. I'm afraid that all the wristpin fits were to tight, and this is what is causing the discoloring in the rods. As far as the rest of the motor, it was about as i expected. There was Gasket maker/sealer in every nook and cranny you could imagine. The valve chamber cover had a blob of the gasket maker about 3 inches long and probable 2 inches wide. Im not sure why there is a big blob of it in there, because it doesnt seem to have a crack. Also 2 of the 3 ears holding the threaded part for the oil return tube were cracked from over tightening the bolt. I'm one of those people who likes to use as little gasket maker/sealer as possible so that it doesnt get into the oil passages and clog them up. I also removed all the head studs with my fingers with the head still on the block. I know this is "okay" but i would feel more comfortable with the head studs snug in the block rather than loose. The camshaft also had some rust on it. Which pretty much just shows that it was sitting out for some time. And i'm pretty sure everyone will agree that there shouldnt be any rust inside a motor at all. But thats pretty much it, i'm sure im forgetting some stuff but here is the link to the pictures. Like i said, if someone can take them and post them on this thread, i would appreciate it. I'm 20 years old, and i must have been playing with model a's to much growing up, because i understand less about computers than just about anyone i know. Anyways, all thats left is to get all the machine work checked, have the cylinders rebored, and i guess put it back together and hope it last longer than the first time... all of 1500 miles this past time after it lost piston #3 the first go around. The first time piston #3 failed was at about 200 miles on the motor. Here is the link: just copy and paste into your website bar. http://s1317.photobucket.com/user/Lo...glass/library/ __________________ Cowtown A's

06-23-2013, 04:31 PM	#2
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,906	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty Your photos have to be less than 575k each. jpgs work best. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

06-23-2013, 04:41 PM	#4
zzlegend Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Reseda, Calif. Posts: 2,188	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty That piston,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,well,,,,,,,, ,it looks rather beat. Wish you well resolving this Logan.

06-23-2013, 04:41 PM	#5
WTSHNN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,413	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty Teach you to fish... Go to photobucket, hover over the thumbnail of the picture, a little star appears in the top right thumbnail. Click it, select "get links", copy the "Direct" link. Come back to Fordbarn, click on the icon above the "Reply" part that looks like this... Paste the link into the window that pops up. You'll get this and it is all done. -Tim

06-23-2013, 04:55 PM	#6
Gary in MN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 192	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Here are a few more of your pictures. Gary in MNLogan's pics (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 2 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 3 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 4 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 5 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 6 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 7 (Medium).jpg

06-23-2013, 04:37 PM	#3
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty Sorta looks like it got warm. Use the address under "Direct" Click on it to copy directly to your clipboard. Image insertion using the quick reply (2nd icon from right) works. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

06-23-2013, 05:11 PM	#7
Gary in MN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 192	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty And a few more pictures. Gary in MN Logan's pics 8 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 9 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 10 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 11 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 12 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 13 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 15 (Medium).jpg

06-23-2013, 05:13 PM	#8
Gary in MN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 192	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty This should be all of them. Gary In MN. Logan's pics 14 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 16 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 17 (Medium).jpg Logan's pics 18 (Medium).jpg

06-23-2013, 04:51 PM	#10
deuce5wndw Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Liberty, KY Posts: 901	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty Logan, I think the pistons used are press fit instead of the floating pins and the blue on the rods is from heating them to press the pins in. Dale

06-23-2013, 05:36 PM	#11
Ed H. Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Milton NH Posts: 148	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty Certainly troubling when you put your trust and money into someone only to find out it was the wrong decision. I hope this issue can be resolved without a hassle. Wishing you good luck. __________________ If you see a bomb technician running, do everything in your power to keep up with him. United States Navy

06-23-2013, 06:23 PM	#12
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty Insert motors are always built without shims just like a modern engine. The blue on the top of the rods is from the rod heater they used to install them. As for the piston, I will reserve an opinion on that till later. I will say I have seen this 3 other times and can probably tell you what happened. The bearings look pretty good for inserts and if you tear down a rebuilt 350 chevy with 500 miles on it, the bearings will look much like these. __________________ http://www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com/

06-23-2013, 06:54 PM	#13
James Rogers Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Asheville,NC Posts: 3,104	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty I believe you need to have someone look at this motor that knows how inserted motors are done and knows about engines in general. As far as this "he said, she said", if you don't have his comments on paper and it signed BY HIM, these comments are moot. I don't believe, from your comments here, you know much about how an inserted engine is done and need some experienced help with eyes on suggestions. No matter what kind of guarantee you may have gotten from him, it is over now since you dismantled the engine without his consent. __________________ http://www.model-a-ford-4bangers.com/

06-23-2013, 07:32 PM	#15
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,755	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty Are those Chevy pistons? Bob

06-23-2013, 11:03 PM	#19
columbiA Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: B.C. Canada Posts: 1,746	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty It appears the pistons were fitted with not enough clearance & the bores picked up metal from the pistons.I dont think the cyls are scored but just need the aluminum removed & the cyls honed to give correct clearance for new pistons.In my opinion,a properly rebuilt stock engine makes a great "touring" engine.My stock,except for 5.9 head 33 B engine still runs the original babbit & has been a great long distance driver.

06-24-2013, 12:33 AM	#20
40 Deluxe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: now Kuna, Idaho Posts: 3,779	Re: Motor UPDATE!!! It aint pretty I'd say the piston damage was caused by a seized wrist pin. This causes the rod to jam the piston into the cylinder wall with high force, squeezing out the oil film and scoring the piston. I've seen this on late model engines where the pin was either too tight or assembled dry or sat a long time before being started. It takes some running time before any oil is splashed onto the pin area and finds its way into pin bore.