Engine temp rises when I get to cruise speed

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by jrvariel48

Thanks again to all the responders!

I'll try to get the fan/shroud off this weekend if possible. and get another fan installed without a shroud to see how we do. I'll post the results as soon as I can.

Thanks, Joe

Joe you have gone well beyond trying to solve a problem that in my opinion based on my many decades of running supercharged flatheads on the street is being caused by a radiator that's never going to work.
Ronnieroadster

[solidaxle]

Originally Posted by JayChicago

The “coolant flows too quickly to cool” myth will never die.

It must be true, I read it on the internet!

[cadillac512]

Quote from the very first post on this thread:



" I've been trying to cool my car down a little for the past couple of months. When it's 50-60 degrees outside it's not a concern, but as we get into summer here in Jersey things really heat up. It seems that after I installed the radiator the problems started. I had a cheap Ebay aluminum P.O.S. it there last summer and I had no problems"

Now why in the world is this problem so damned hard to understand and correct ?



Terry

[The Brassworks]

Originally Posted by jrvariel48

Thanks to all that are responding to this post.

First off Lee I think all of this could've been avoided if you offered me a larger core. I did tell you this was for a supercharged flathead motor. I assume you know that flatheads have cooling issues without a supercharger so I'm a little baffled as to why this was not offered to me. As the expert, you should've told me or at least offered a suggestion that I needed the bigger core.

Second, I'm definitely not going to run two fans to try and solve the problem.

Third, I will try removing the shroud and fan, but I already explained to you that the fan motor is connected to the shroud so the motor can't be taken off and installed. I would have to go back to a pusher fan which we already know did not do the job. If you think the puller will do a better job than the pusher, I can try to fabricate some brackets to get it mounted. Tell me how far the fan blades need to be from the core. I have an older puller fan that may be too big, but I could also see if I could get that to fit.

I don't want to run the car without any fan with the coolant mixture I have in there now which is mostly water. I'm concerned with boil over.

It seems to me that the radiator itself is not doing the job.

I'm open to suggestions as to how we get this corrected.

I always recommend the largest core that fits. I always advocate pullers over pushers. There is no compelling reason anyone would elect for a thinner core except (1) the incremental cost e.g. $100 or (2) insufficient space. The fact that a pusher fan was used suggests we were told there was insufficient space. I did not measure the space. It was not my recommendation to build a thinner radiator; “expert” or otherwise.

I did check my emails prior to your build
> On Jun 16, 2021, at 4:36 AM, Joe V <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 
> I've had no problems with the flex a lite, but I remember you saying the Spal was the way to go.
> It's a model 396 S-blade 2500 cfm (if that cfm is true). If you think the Spal will perform better, I'll go with
> that, but it needs to be a push type.
> I don't have room for a fan to pull. I also already have the relay etc. so I won't need that.
> Thanks for your time
> Joe


At highway speeds 205 deg. “its okay but you're not happy”, you exit the highway and drive 30-40mph at 190 deg. but going back to 45mph you “start to heat up again.” It's not quite the data set I'd like to see but I have suggested you try two offset fans (without a shroud) to see if the additional 1,959 cfm helps below 40mph and free air flow from removal of that shroud reduces your situational overheating above 40mph. Fans matter at ~40mph and lower. You are telling me you will definitely not do this.

You removed a SPAL pusher and put a cooling components puller fan in. We recommend SPAL fans because we believe their products are superior to all others on the market. I would not have mounted the puller fan and shroud but since you spent considerable money, I suggest you remove the shroud and you may derive benefit from it. Its four bolts.

I am not advocating the removal of fans. I am also not supportive of your coolant changes.

There are plenty of good suggestions on this forum but as my particular suggestions do not seem of value to you I am at a loss.

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by The Brassworks

I always recommend the largest core that fits. I always advocate pullers over pushers. There is no compelling reason anyone would elect for a thinner core except (1) the incremental cost e.g. $100 or (2) insufficient space. The fact that a pusher fan was used suggests we were told there was insufficient space. I did not measure the space. It was not my recommendation to build a thinner radiator; “expert” or otherwise.

I did check my emails prior to your build
> On Jun 16, 2021, at 4:36 AM, Joe V <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 
> I've had no problems with the flex a lite, but I remember you saying the Spal was the way to go.
> It's a model 396 S-blade 2500 cfm (if that cfm is true). If you think the Spal will perform better, I'll go with
> that, but it needs to be a push type.
> I don't have room for a fan to pull. I also already have the relay etc. so I won't need that.
> Thanks for your time
> Joe


At highway speeds 205 deg. “its okay but you're not happy”, you exit the highway and drive 30-40mph at 190 deg. but going back to 45mph you “start to heat up again.” It's not quite the data set I'd like to see but I have suggested you try two offset fans (without a shroud) to see if the additional 1,959 cfm helps below 40mph and free air flow from removal of that shroud reduces your situational overheating above 40mph. Fans matter at ~40mph and lower. You are telling me you will definitely not do this.

You removed a SPAL pusher and put a cooling components puller fan in. We recommend SPAL fans because we believe their products are superior to all others on the market. I would not have mounted the puller fan and shroud but since you spent considerable money, I suggest you remove the shroud and you may derive benefit from it. Its four bolts.

I am not advocating the removal of fans. I am also not supportive of your coolant changes.

There are plenty of good suggestions on this forum but as my particular suggestions do not seem of value to you I am at a loss.

Lee. I have 40 plus years in the top of professional racing. I have worked with multiple engineers from Ford Motor Company to the exclusive builders of radiator’s for F1 and NASCAR. Again I may be wrong but I don’t believe so. This radiator is not up to standard. I have as a hobby built Ford flathead engines since I were 14. That’s 48 years From stock to hot rod. Not race flatheads like Ronnie Roadster ( a legend that knows his stuff).
Let’s stop the bs and either supply a radiator that will cool correctly or tell Joe you will not help him. I have read every comment on here. If straight water won’t cool you have a problem. If you need fans at cruise speed you have a problem. There are hundreds of blown flattys similar to Joe’s that run cool we all know HP = BTUs but even blown these engines in street form do no make excess BTUs. Let’s correct the root cause and get on with our fun lives. Thanks.
Cheers
Tony.

[Bored&Stroked]

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One additional comment: 205 degrees at highway speeds is too high in my mind . . . it tells me you have a cooling system problem, the timing is retarded, or the engine is running too lean - or some combination of the 3.

I would want a system that delivers a temperature between 180 and 190 - and NOT over 195 on a hot day (on the highway) - with your particular 7 lb cap.

Yes, you have a pressurized radiator - and that raises the boiling point, but it doesn't do anything about the total heat soak of the coolant.

Also, the hotter the engine, the easier it is to detonate it - and with a blown motor, this is even more of an issue.

[jrvariel48]

I always recommend the largest core that fits. I always advocate pullers over pushers. There is no compelling reason anyone would elect for a thinner core except (1) the incremental cost e.g. $100 or (2) insufficient space. The fact that a pusher fan was used suggests we were told there was insufficient space. I did not measure the space. It was not my recommendation to build a thinner radiator; “expert” or otherwise.

I did check my emails prior to your build
> On Jun 16, 2021, at 4:36 AM, Joe V <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> 
> I've had no problems with the flex a lite, but I remember you saying the Spal was the way to go.
> It's a model 396 S-blade 2500 cfm (if that cfm is true). If you think the Spal will perform better, I'll go with
> that, but it needs to be a push type.
> I don't have room for a fan to pull. I also already have the relay etc. so I won't need that.
> Thanks for your time
> Joe

Lets get something straight. I was NEVER offered a larger core. As the expert you should have offered or even insisted that I go with a larger core.
I told you, as per my above email, that I had a pusher because of no room for a puller. That DOES NOT say I don't have room for a larger core
I have over 15K in the set up and building of this motor. Do you think $100 would scare me away from a larger core. I always did things in excess when I put this car together
I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but it sounds like you're say I didn't want to go for the extra money for the larger core. I call B.S. sorry

[KiWinUS]

One more comment. A stock 36 radiator has 4 rows of tubes. Why would you build any less in a stock style radiator? Please answer that. I believe a correct stock radiator may cool this engine. Probably 85% of Joes driving produces near stock Mercury HP.

[The Brassworks]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

One more comment. A stock 36 radiator has 4 rows of tubes. Why would you build any less in a stock style radiator? Please answer that. I believe a correct stock radiator may cool this engine. Probably 85% of Joes driving produces near stock Mercury HP.

You're correct a 1936 Ford has 4 rows. Joe has a 1935 car radiator (of which there are two designs) and it also has 4 rows but they're 3/8" oval shaped pitched at an angle and a thicker wall. There are also two core designs for the truck and they too used a similar tube shape. Today we use what is commonly called a 3/4" flat tube or elliptical shaped tube as they have more wall surface area per tube. Ford began doing this in 1930.

We also increase the fin density for more copper and heat exchange points Ford began doing this in 1932 and again in 1939.

You are probably right, Joe should buy a stock radiator.

[KiWinUS]

Originally Posted by The Brassworks

You're correct a 1936 Ford has 4 rows. Joe has a 1935 car radiator (of which there are two designs) and it also has 4 rows but they're 3/8" oval shaped pitched at an angle and a thicker wall. There are also two core designs for the truck and they too used a similar tube shape. Today we use what is commonly called a 3/4" flat tube or elliptical shaped tube as they have more wall surface area per tube. Ford began doing this in 1930.

We also increase the fin density for more copper and heat exchange points Ford began doing this in 1932 and again in 1939.

You are probably right, Joe should buy a stock radiator.

Lee are you telling us the radiator you sold Joe is not as efficient as a stock radiator? And you are not prepared to accept accountability for your radiator that will not cool as needed?
Are you going to step up to the plate and correct this issue ?

[Bored&Stroked]

Joe: Do the removal of the fan/shroud test - then you'll know if the radiator can handle the engine heat at cruise speed. I'd richen the carb first - test it with that, then pull the fan/shroud and test again. Once you see the results, you'll have a good idea as to if you have "enough radiator" for the application.

If you don't then I'd suggest a conversation with Lee to come up with a solution you can both live with . . . versus a stalemate and exploring other vendors. If this doesn't work, then you at least tried.

Best of luck,
Dale

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by The Brassworks

You're correct a 1936 Ford has 4 rows. Joe has a 1935 car radiator (of which there are two designs) and it also has 4 rows but they're 3/8" oval shaped pitched at an angle and a thicker wall. There are also two core designs for the truck and they too used a similar tube shape. Today we use what is commonly called a 3/4" flat tube or elliptical shaped tube as they have more wall surface area per tube. Ford began doing this in 1930.

We also increase the fin density for more copper and heat exchange points Ford began doing this in 1932 and again in 1939.

You are probably right, Joe should buy a stock radiator.

Wow what a guy that last line tells us a whole lot about your overall concern.
Ronnieroadster

[The Brassworks]

Originally Posted by KiWinUS

Lee are you telling us the radiator you sold Joe is not as efficient as a stock radiator? And you are not prepared to accept accountability for your radiator that will not cool as needed?
Are you going to step up to the plate and correct this issue ?

I am telling you its more efficient based on Ramanujan approximation of ellipse circumference.

I am not sure how to "step up" and "chime in". I am leaving the forum to go home and yell in my closet. It just makes more sense to me.

[The Brassworks]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

Wow what a guy that last line tells us a whole lot about your overall concern.
Ronnieroadster

Think about the last line. Perhaps it means something more.

[Tinker]

I'm more interested in a gotcha scenario.


Big respect for responding. For me anyways.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Tinker

I'm more interested in a gotcha scenario.


Big respect for responding. For me anyways.

Yeah. Too bad; he probab;y won't be back.

[Tinker]

Originally Posted by tubman

Yeah. Too bad; he probab;y won't be back.

Not sure I'm out on them.


Mods have always been a trial and error system. From production to application.


One thing I am understanding this is the first time I've heard of this over the years. Talk to me in 2 years.






.

[ford38v8]

I find it unsettling that a reputation is worth less these days than a radiator. Then again, with Walker out of the picture, perhaps a reputation is not a prerequisite to selling radiators after all.

[Tinker]

Alan as the internet works. All I have to do is say something and people will gang up even if they have never bought or know what is happening.

Time will tell though. No reason to speculate or condemn a system that might be great for a lot of other applications that are not for some specific moded version. Kinda of limiting a player. But...


quick to condemn and slow to forgive. Cancel them? Time will tell. Remember this whole thread is based on one persons motor.



.

[Tinker]

Maybe every time things don't work out. We shut them down. Leaving us with our d!cks in our hand.


I think that's how Don Prudhomme did things. When it didn't workout he posted on social media.


If you are questioning what rads I run, They are re cores. Not sure I could find some one today that could do it now. Never have purchased or worked for Brassworks.


Probably the best bet is they can give him his money back and walk away. Just my opinion.


.