Bearing on King Pins question

[Houdini]

I am re-doing my king pins and bushing. Currently, they are all dis-assembled. I ordered a complete king pin kit from Bratton's.

My question is with regard to the new bearings they sent me. The brand is not Timkem but something called Art Tech H-10s. I'm not particularly impressed in that the metal is slightly stained, like a rust color, versus nice and shiny metal. One of the bearings seems to have a tight spot, when rotated by hand (loose, not installed), so Brattons's sent me a replacement for it. The replacement was in a new bag, but its really stained or discolored , like a used bearing would look with aged grease or a bit of rust.

The more important concern is how they are made. These new bearings consist of balls versus the Timken that I removed, which have roller bearings inside. It would seem for an application where the force is on the face or surface of the bearing, that the roller type bearings would be more suitable, in that there is more bearing surface to carry the weight.

I'm putting all this time and effort, plus money into the project to do it right, but I wonder if using these new bearings is wise, or should I try and buy Timken brand bearings locally. I'm new here, but I've seen many folks state that Bratton's is a quality supplier, but I wonder why they didn't supply Timkens.

The old bearings (Timkens) look good, but then, there could be wear spots internally, so again, while its all apart, I would prefer ot put in new components.

If any of you have used these other style bearings or have advice on which bearings I should use, I would appreciate it.

Frank

[Houdini]

I should have done my research before I posted this, as I just found that there was a 2011 thread on the subject. I didn't realize that Timken doens't make the T 83 bearings any longer and that the ball type bearing has been used for this application for a whiile.

So I still wonder if I would be better off using the Timken's that I just removed, or putting in these new bearings. The old ones look ok and don't seem to bind, but I would think I need to put some weight on them to see if they bind or have flat spots. not sure how old these are.

[Mitch//pa]

MO (my opinion) don't reuse any old bearings in any assembly on the car....except for maybe front wheel bearings which can be inspected and easy to get to... Other bearings such as diffs, trans etc are just to much work to redo over

[Rowdy]

Definately agree that good NOS and NORS bearings are plentiful. I have not looked at the current repops so I can not comment on the quality. I would scrap the new repop bearings and look on ebay for vintage NORS bearings. I will be looking for NOS A kingpins soon, but do not need the bearings or bushings. I seem to find alot of the 35-36 kingpins locally, but not many Model A. Rod

[Houdini]

I don't know what NOS or NORS is. Is it an abbreviation or acronym or a brand? It would be useful to know what it is and if a brand, are they still in business?

The bearings that I got from Bratton's, say they are made in the USA.

[Rowdy]

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NOS = New Old Stock made by Ford in this case.
NORS= New Old Reproduction Stock. Echlin,Western Auto etc.

Rod

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Houdini

I don't know what NOS or NORS is. Is it an abbreviation or acronym or a brand? It would be useful to know what it is and if a brand, are they still in business?

The bearings that I got from Bratton's, say they are made in the USA.

Use them

I purchased the kits from Brattons also, everything worked as planned

[180 a]

NOS new old stock

NORS New old replacement stock

[Tom Endy]

A friend and I went through the same drill last summer. We ordered a repair kit from Bratton's expecting to receive Timken thrust bearings, but instead received an inferior bearing that seemed to bind. We tried to purchase Timken bearings from a local bearing store. They tried to order them for us, but were told they are no longer available.

This is reminiscent of the poor quality Aetna throw-out bearings that flooded the market a few years ago. Federal Mogul, though made in Mexico, began producing them and they are good quality. Bratton's carry them.

We went ahead and used the king pin bearings we received from Bratton's and they seem to perform ok.

Tom Endy

[redmodelt]

Unless someone tells me I am wrong, the thrust bearing used on the king pin is and has been a ball bearing not roller whether it's Timkens or what ever brand. If it's a roller bearing maybe someone was "trying something different".

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

Unless someone tells me I am wrong, the thrust bearing used on the king pin is and has been a ball bearing not roller whether it's Timkens or what ever brand. If it's a roller bearing maybe someone was "trying something different".

Ball bearings on king pins is all that I have ever seen. Did not know that some were roller bearings

[J Franklin]

Balls are usually used in thrust applications. I would trust what Brattins sells unless they make notation as to good, better,or best.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I've seen originals with short rollers, but the balls will work fine.

[Roger V]

To my knowledge, Ford used roller bearings and I've seen these upon taking apart axles. At some point (?) Ford changed to ball bearings probably due to cost cutting. I have bought NOS Ford ball bearings for this application (obviously for service) and they have the "B" prefix. I never found the roller bearing in NOS Ford which I also thought was better. So, has anyone, Vince?, have a NOS Ford in-the-box version of this bearing with an "A" prefix?

[Houdini]

I really appreciate all the responses. Thank you. Now I know what NOS etc means.

The bearings that I took out were Timken T83 and had rollers, not balls in them. Based on the comments, I wonder if they were originals, or replaced some time but with these type bearings.

From the advice I've been given here, I'll use the new bearings that Bratton's supplied.

[George Miller]

If rollers are used they would have to be tapered. If not one end would have to slide, because you are going around a curve. Rollers were never meant to do that. Other words it is a loner distance around the out side of the bearing than the inside. So to work right they would have to be tapered the right amount.

I would just use ball bearings like all the trucks and cars used years ago.

[Rowdy]

The Timken T83's are likely NORS and were likely from a spindle bolt kit installed many years ago. I am not sure when Timken stopped making the T83's, but would think some time in the 90's. Almost all of the NORS 28-48 Ford kits regaurdless of the brand all used the Timken bearings from what I have seen. There was one Toledo set I had that had Bower brand bearings, but still used the T83 part number. Rod

[RonC]

Have used Brattons bearings without any complaints. They will probably out live the king pin bushings at which time you would replace them anyway.

[neds29]

Hi- I know this is an old thread, but I've been redoing the brakes and king pins on my '29 pu, and happened to find the "new" ones I'd bought back in 1971 for my since-sold '29 roadster. Turns out the existing thrust bearing has rollers for bearings, not balls. The "new" have balls and are much less substantial than the old. The old or "existing" thrust bearings were completely frozen full of dirt and grease but with a little Kroil penetrating oil I freed them up. But they don't turn smoothly and one is actually falling apart so I won't reuse them. The top surfaces show wear so obviously they've been that way for awhile- no wonder steering was so stiff. The new bearings have "Made in the USA" stamped on them, but no manufacturer. Curious. Oh, the metal on the "new" is stained- but I am too after 50 years!
Ned .

[CT Jack]

US made Timken bearings are quality bearings but not the only quality bearing manufacturer. You should continue to make a case about your poor quality experience with Brattons. They should rectify the problem. If you have the Timken bearing number any bearing supplier should be able to cross reference this number with another bearing manufacturer. Your problem is solvable but you shouldn't have to go and look for an alternative. You should be able to take the kit out of the box and install it without having to do what you have described. You could go to one of the other parts suppliers and try them. This might not solve your problem though as most of our parts suppliers buy from the same resources