Throw out bearing noise

[bmwillia]

I am getting a noise when I am engaging the clutch. I have taken a video and you'll see its when the throwout bearing is first coming in contact with the PP fingers. Once the bearing is full engaged, it is quiet. It is only when the initial contact is made, prior to any inward movement of the fingers.

Do I have something out of adjustment, or a bigger problem?

I have just put in this 59ab and 39 tranny. The old 33 tranny and 35 motor were quiet when engaging the clutch.

Here is a video:

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/KfJzQBMrVhs

[Kube]

Brad, That sounds like a TO bearing in the midst of failure.

[bmwillia]

That would be a bummer since it is a new bearing from Mac VP.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by bmwillia

That would be a bummer since it is a new bearing from Mac VP.

I have found many of the new bearings are poop. I won't use one, period.
NOS or NORS are the only bearings I will use.

[cadillac512]

I wonder if it's hitting one finger before the other two. It looks like it shakes the T.O. assembly as it just touches the finger. It doesn't sound like a bearing noise to me. Did you happen to measure the finger heights when installing the clutch? Maybe you can see enough through the inspection hole to check...


Terry

[Flathead Fever]

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Originally Posted by cadillac512

I wonder if it's hitting one finger before the other two. It looks like it shakes the T.O. assembly as it just touches the finger. It doesn't sound like a bearing noise to me. Did you happen to measure the finger heights when installing the clutch? Maybe you can see enough through the inspection hole to check...


Terry

I was thinking exactly the same thing. I've replaced hundreds of T/O bearings at work and that one doesn't sound like the typical T/O bearing noise. It's almost like one clutch finger is hitting it, instead of spinning it. Then the noise goes away when the other two fingers contact. Is it spinning at the same speed when it first contacts compared to when it is pressed further? Like Terry said see if you can see those fingers contacting the bearings with an inspection mirror, without the engine running. This is why it is so important to measure the clutch finger height after it's bolted to the flywheel, especially the adjustable ones. It's fast and a lot easier than having to pull it all apart again. We used Timken and BCA bearing at work on a fleet of 400 vehicles, 75% of them manual transmissions. I'd trust either one of those bearings, especially the Timken bearings. It could very well be a faulty T/O bearing, but it sounds different than what I was used to hearing. It's strange you say it only makes noise at it just contacts, normally, a bad bearing would be making noise the entire time it's spinning. A bearing that noisy would be really rough spinning it by hand. I don't know if you can get in there with your fingers or maybe a tool and see what it feels like. The bearing should have a manufacturer name and bearing number stamped into it. I'm curious what manufacturer it is. Your engine sounds really nice if that makes you feel any better.

[bmwillia]

The motor is a turn key from H&H so the clutch and pressure plate were installed by them.

In person it does sound like the fingers hitting against the bearing before it fully engages. Once it’s fully engaged it quiet.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bmwillia]

After further inspection, it appears that one of the fingers is farther back than the other two. It's hard to be completely sure working through the small inspection hole. Could it be that two of the fingers engage before the 3rd and that may be what is causing the noise?

[cadillac512]

Originally Posted by bmwillia

After further inspection, it appears that one of the fingers is farther back than the other two. It's hard to be completely sure working through the small inspection hole. Could it be that two of the fingers engage before the 3rd and that may be what is causing the noise?

Yes, it could be.The fingers should be very close to the same height. Certainly worth investigating although the process may well involve removing things you'd rather not have to remove . At least the parts are clean. (small consolation).


Terry

[tubman]

I have been through this. Check this thread out, especially post # 16 : https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...highlight=shim.

[Flathead Fever]

Originally Posted by bmwillia

After further inspection, it appears that one of the fingers is farther back than the other two. It's hard to be completely sure working through the small inspection hole. Could it be that two of the fingers engage before the 3rd and that may be what is causing the noise?

This noise is a new one for me so I don't know what two fingers engaging first would do. We know two fingers engaging first is not correct so it's good place to start. The clutch might also chatter if all three fingers are not evenly releasing the pressure plate. It still might just be a new defective bearing. Sometimes we start imaging all kind of exotic problems (me included) when the simplest most obvious answer is the correct one.

Remember the Shell answer man with the white lab coat that had an answer for every car problem. I have yet to meet a real mechanic like that guy. I've worked with some brilliant mechanics, and they all had weird problems kick their butts. No matter how long you work on this stuff you will see things.
you have never seen before. I almost hate to give advice because I know that there is a good chance, I might be wrong even with 30-years of doing this every day for a living. I don't want to cause somebody unnecessary work and money. The best thing you can do is get as many ideas from as many people as you can and see what makes the most sense to you.

[deuce_roadster]

I have posted this before, but I had a brand new named brand T.O. bearing last 7 miles before it sounded like a coffee can full of ball bearings. Like Kube, I now won't install a NEW manufactured one.

[bmwillia]

Thanks Tubman for pointing me to that post. very informative.

I just got this car back on the road after waiting a year for the new motor. Man I really don't want to take this thing apart again.

If the noise is just the unevenness of the fingers and by the time there is any movement of the clutch, the fingers are all engaged so that the clutch is disengaging the flywheel evenly, is there any major damage that can be done here?

I am asking out of ignorance, and out of genuine disgust at the thought of pulling the engine or dropping the rear end and pulling the transmission.

[cadillac512]

Brad, I can't see any major damage resulting from this situation especially if you monitor it for any increased noise or symptoms. Any real damage that might occur will be to parts that are already defective so running it,at least as long as you're willing to put up with the noise, is likely ok. I'd keep a close ear on it though, and stop if anything gets worse. The fact that the bearing is quiet when the clutch pedal is fully depressed is a good sign. I understand not wanting to take it back apart...not a lot of fun.



Terry

[Mac VP]

I’m not sure when you purchased the bearing from us but we’ve been selling mostly the BCA bearings that were made in the USA. we’ve also had a few Timken and other USA made bearings come through our stock. Prior to this, our bearings were the Timken/National versions that were made in their plant in Mexico. I’ve been very happy with the BCA bearings. It’s always possible for a defective bearing to make it out into the field but I rarely see that from the afore mentioned sources. The fact that it’s only making the noise when it first comes into contact with the pressure plate does suggest a problem with the fingers of the plate being out of spec. Certainly, if our bearing is defective we’ll replace it under warranty. Can you advise when you purchased it from us?

[Mart]

I've had bearings that made noises but not that noise. I would suspect finger height adjustment rather than faulty bearing. The bearing is silent once seated on the fingers. A bad bearing makes a different noise , and does it all the time the clutch is released. (foot on the pedal).
Coincidentally this is what a bad bearing sounds like: https://youtu.be/PC_1gKwSrZE

[Gene1949]

Perhaps there is a reason auto manufacturers discontinued using Borg/Beck and Long clutches many years ago. When my old clutch gave up (yes because of the fingers out of adjustment) I went to a diaphragm style. Centerforce has complete assemblies (flywheels, pressure plates and discs) for our old fords. .

[3twinridges]

I wonder, instead of a bad throwout bearing, do you have a worn bearing hub, or snout, or both? When the bearing first engages, maybe the catch causes vibration on a worn or poorly fitted hub on the snout. That tolerance should be pretty tight with hardly any play.

JB

[bmwillia]

Originally Posted by Mac VP

I’m not sure when you purchased the bearing from us but we’ve been selling mostly the BCA bearings that were made in the USA. we’ve also had a few Timken and other USA made bearings come through our stock. Prior to this, our bearings were the Timken/National versions that were made in their plant in Mexico. I’ve been very happy with the BCA bearings. It’s always possible for a defective bearing to make it out into the field but I rarely see that from the afore mentioned sources. The fact that it’s only making the noise when it first comes into contact with the pressure plate does suggest a problem with the fingers of the plate being out of spec. Certainly, if our bearing is defective we’ll replace it under warranty. Can you advise when you purchased it from us?

Mac VP,

The bearing was bought within the last year. I do not think it is the culprit. You have been excellent to deal with. We have spoken on the phone several times and you have also helped me through several problems via email. I appreciate all of your help and have no doubt you will stand behind anything you sell. Thanks for your input!

Brad

[bmwillia]

Originally Posted by 3twinridges

I wonder, instead of a bad throwout bearing, do you have a worn bearing hub, or snout, or both? When the bearing first engages, maybe the catch causes vibration on a worn or poorly fitted hub on the snout. That tolerance should be pretty tight with hardly any play.

JB

The bearing is tight on the hub. I am fairly certain it is the PP finger causing the noise.

I think the bearing is contacting two fingers and the third is just grazing the bearing until it is pushed a little farther in. I don't see any clutch disc movement until well after all three fingers are contacted. Also there is no other noise or vibration past the initial noise that is present in the video. Other than that noise, it behaves like a normal clutch should.