Water showed up in oil today!

[66miles]

Hi all.
Just been through a few older threads on this to see if I could get a few clues but I thought I'd outline this particular case in a new thread cos it seems a little strange. Here goes... I have had this old flattie running for about a year now, though it has spent next to no time on the road until just recently, as I have been working through the basics first. The only decent run she had was a week ago when I took her for a gentle 6-mile jog. The rest of the time though (over the last year), I have started and idled her regularly, checking the oil and water each time also. The oil has always showed up dead clean. Until today that is! Seems like all of a sudden something has gone bang. Iv'e just pulled one head off. The top of the block doesn't look all that bad, same with the head. As for the gasket though, I'm just not that much of an expert to tell. It seems to be a metallic gasket, but not copper cos it is silver! I hope it's a blown gasket. Maybe the other side will turn out real bad. Just seems strange to end up with water in the oil so sudden like this when there's never been even a hint of a problem before. Any thoughts?

[Mr 42]

Have you lost coolant?
There is often water in the oil, and modern oil can absorb/store up to 20% water without problem, and the water is boiled off when you drive.

I left my Roadster stored cold over one winter and the oil looked really bad, but when I got home it was normal again.

With that said if the oil is light brow like coffee with milk , you have a problem.
there is not many places water can get into the oil from a gasket. If its not going thru a cylinder should be easy to spot, otherwise check for cracks.

[Bolts]

Sorry to hear that 66. Losing coolant, cocoa colored oil, steamy exhaust and bucking when the engine is being started are symptoms of water getting into the combustion chamber which gets past the rings into the oil. Is the gasket showing a breach where the water has gone where it shouldn't have? Could be happening on either head. As a kid I saw this a few times. Been away from flatheads for MANY years and don't really know that much about them, but my dad told me warped heads was not uncommon. I believe one cause of this is improper torquing sequence and inconsistent torque on the fasteners.
If the block didn't get real hot, it may not be that it is cracked. I would wait for others to tell you how to diagnose it before you tear it down.

[66miles]

Mr 42. Last time I checked which was only a couple of days ago, the oil was as clean as when it came out of the container I bought it in. Today it looks like the coffee with milk you described. I have read posts on the barn which suggest anything from blown head gaskets to freeze plugs to cracks in the block, even water pump faults. The engine does loose a little water but it has a leaky water pump. Whatever has blown it has happened all of a sudden. Would a crack appear out of nowhere like this? PS: This car lives in a temperate climate where things don't freeze. Was this any help?

[66miles]

Thanks Bolts! I'm sure you know as well as any with these old machines. We can never know what abuse they have suffered at the hands of others. Only thing to do is pull the other head tomorrow, then off to the shop for a couple gaskets, and hope for the best.

[66miles]

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Come to think of it... This morning was the first time in a while she was reluctant to start. I had the hood up as I was cranking her, and I noticed she was kind of kicking back against the rotation of the starter. Could a pot have filled up with water over night causing a fluid lock sort of thing? Just another random thought.

[Tom RSA]

Which motor do you have? Aluminum or Cast Iron heads? The early aluminum heads are very porous and corrode easy. I had that problem on a 1934 Coupe with the 21 stud motor. The water escaped down the cylinders and also causes a hydraulic lock. The RH side head was the culprit in my case.

[66miles]

These are iron heads. It is the right hand side that I haven't removed yet. I ran out of time before supper, then couldn't face pulling another head until tomorrow. That is the side that always seemed to spit a little water from the exhaust tailpipe (twin exhaust system). Being a complete novice with flatheads, I just assumed the spits of water were due to our high humidity environment. Maybe water has been creeping into one of the pots for a while, and has now ended up in the oil for some reason.

[66miles]

Folks, I'm beat. Tonight I pray to the gods of the flathead. Let this be a blown head gasket! Should know by this time tomorrow if my prayers have been answered. If not, then this motor's comin out. Damn it!

[mercman from oz]

A few years ago, my Oil had water in it. Traced the problem to a leaking Freeze Plug that is hidden by the Sump. Pulled the Sump off while still in the car, removed the leaking Plug. While we were at it we removed the other 3 Freeze Plugs also, & while they were all out, gave the block a good cleaning with a screwdriver & water to wash it clean inside.
Recently we were working on another Flathead & knowing how gunk builds up in the Block, we removed the Sump, just so that we could clean out the Block.
The attached pictures show just some of the rubbish that we got out of the recent motor that we worked on.

[ken ct]

Before I did anything up top I would check the 2 freeze plugs on each pan rail.Remove engine and turn upside down an remove oil pan and you will see them. 3/4" round. I had a hole in 2 of them. Very common problem with these blocks,good luck. ken ct usa

[alan]

in the future pull the plugs and rig up a way to put air pressure into the cylinder, it will find the leak really fast if it a blown headgasket or ? I use a compression tester with a air coupling, move the engine over till it is at bottom of compresion stroke-actually it will do it by itself so stay out of the way of the fan, and leave out of gear

[scooder]

Don't be surprised if yours ain't got freeze plugs on the pan rail, not all of them have. Some of the middle years have the bumps visible at the pan/block join but not drilled for the plugs, got one here like that, if I recall its a 221 24stud with the thin steel replaceable sleeves. Late has no bumps or plugs.
Hope yours is an easy fix.
Good luck.
Martin.

[66miles]

Thanks folks. I'm about to lift the second head. That could reveal good news or bad. If the heads and block surfaces look ok I'll fit new gaskets and hope for the best. I'll use a gasket sealant and seal around the studs too. If the problem persists, I thought I'd try dropping the pan with the engine in the car, as Mercman suggests, then pressure-fill the cooling system and if there's a leak through the block somewhere it should show up pretty quick. Might just be a blown freeze-plug. I gotta hope for the best cos I have very limited tools and equipment to work with right now.

[66miles]

2 days after finding my oil has turned into coffee with milk, I have pulled both heads and cleaned up the surfaces ready for new gaskets (with sealant). Last night I had another one of those "newbie" ideas. Having pulled the bottom hoses off prior to pulling the heads, I reconnected the radiator hoses and filled the water jacket to the top. It can only be filled as far as the rearmost water passage while in the car before it just runs out on the floor. I figure, if there is a leak below that point it will slowly loose water through the block or freeze plugs and into the oil pan. So far, 2 hours later no water has been lost at all. I'm now thinking that the leak was either through a bad head gasket (they didn't look great), or through a crack higher up such as a port or the lifter galley. What do you guys think?

[52merc]

66miles yours is a 46 is it not? they don't have the plugs in the rails

[66miles]

Good question merc! The car is a '47 Merc but I'm not 100% sure about the motor. The 24-stud bore is 3-3/16" with 3-3/4" stroke (ie 239 ci). It has a crab dizzie but requires the spacer for the dizzie to be fitted which has been suggested, means the motor would originally have had a helmet dizzie. I dunno. Were the early 39/40/41etc Mercs 239ci with those bore n stroke numbers?

[Twinspinner]

Your cooling system may not leak until it is warmed up to operating temp and put under pressure.
Neil.

[66miles]

Very true Twinspinner. I'm tryin to look on the bright side right now. That said, the head gaskets looked pretty crappy, and there was signs of rust on the top of the block in one place and the adjacent pot had maybe 1 or 2 drops of water sittin on the piston. Though I suppose that could've leaked in there when I pulled the head.

[Brian]

Most of those Canadian 239's had the plugs in the pan rails, up to and including C59A's. The C69A blocks are the only ones of the cast bell housing series engines that don't. Easy to tell by seeing if there are 'bulges' along the rails where the plugs go.