9" rear in a jailbar truck

[GB SISSON]

I have been reading a thread tonight that goes into quite a discussion about the problematic axles in a banjo rear end. I have read tales of sphincters tightening as nuts are twisted, wheels with drums flying into oncoming traffic, threads stripping, cracks appearing, keys shearing and then going through it all again if you'd like to check out your brakes...
Ever since I built and installed a 276 flathead mated to a T-5 in my truck based woodie wagon I have been thinking about completing this powertrain 'upgrade' with a 9" 4:11 rear from a '57-'72 Ford 1/2 ton pickup. IIRC this is a simple and direct 'bolt in' to my jailbar springs and driveshaft. I see there are quite a few guys on CL and Marketplace who sell these and seem familiar with inspecting and general overhaul. Since my woodie is far from being an original anything, why would I Not want to go this route? Right now, all seems fine, but I can now go 70 on the interstate and seems like a good move for piece of mind as I venture further from home in my 'semi-retirement' phase. Thanks, Gary

[Scotty's 52 F3]

Sounds like a good plan to me. Safer for you and yours and that truck you built is the only one like it on the planet. Axle failure at 70 MPH would be bad.

[ford38v8]

Gary, I hear tell, (no experience myself) that a 9" is overkill for a flathead, an 8" being more appropriate. Perhaps a comparison of options here would benefit your goal? I believe they both have the common ratios of 3.27, 3.55, and 3.73, the 9" being used for F250/F350, the 8" for F150. more info than that is above my paygrade.

[petehoovie]

[Bored&Stroked]

I think it comes down to what do you have available and at what price? A 9" rear is definitely overkill from a strength perspective, but there are more parts available for 9" Ford rear ends than probably any other made.

However, a good 8" Ford rear is lighter, has all the ratios you could want and there were definitely some that were 5 x 5.5 bolt pattern. Either one will work - just find a good one at a fair price. . I think a gear ratio of 3.73 or 4.11 would work out fine with your overdrive setup. I would probably choose a 3.73 if I had a choice.

[tom1948]

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I'm using A 1999 8.8 from a merc mountaineer in my 1948 merc coupe. It has 3.73 gears, posi. and is 1/2" narrower than the original unit. I think a pre-1999 unit w/o disc brakes would work fine with your set up. they're pretty stout rears. just my useless opinion. lol, tom

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Gary, I hear tell, (no experience myself) that a 9" is overkill for a flathead, an 8" being more appropriate. Perhaps a comparison of options here would benefit your goal? I believe they both have the common ratios of 3.27, 3.55, and 3.73, the 9" being used for F250/F350, the 8" for F150. more info than that is above my paygrade.

The F-250 and F 350 would be full floaters with 8 lugs. There were some F250s with semi-float but still 8 lug. These 3/4 amd 1 tons would typically have a dana 60, or in later years a sterling 10 1/4. The 4:11 is absolutely perfect for the island with so many hills and really 60 is more comfortable on the rare freeway trips. My rear tires are a bit over 30" tall so there's a little 'rubber overdrive' as well. Most of the 8 and 8.8 seem to be set up for the springs being under the axle, and mine are above. I have moved and welded spring pads before but the '57-'72 seem the best fit. I'm glad I have received a favorable response on this subject and thanks for the input. And I do kinda like a bit of 'overkill' sometimes. I will continue my research!

[pistonbroke]

Hi Gary, Back in the day when I put a 9" out of a 64 thunder bird in my 42 jail bar. the width was good as in it looked right and the pinion yoke length worked as well. I did it for the 3.00 gears back then. The only issue was the lugbolt pattern but I just put on a set of custum wheels and all was well. Tim

[Karl Wescott]

I think something missing in this discussion is the weight on the axle. Engine torque and thrust are not the only considerations, the load carrying ability of the rear end structure and bearings should be considered as well as the braking torque on the axle housing (related to total weight of the vehicle). If Gary is not going to carry more weight than the 1/2 ton pickup at full capacity he should be just fine. If the rear end will be overloaded then think bigger. The 8" is a great little rear end (emphasis on LITTLE) and should be reserved (and preferred) for roadsters, coupes, and pre 1935 sedans.

[TomT/Williamsburg]

I think it is a great idea - with parts, brake shoes, and the complexity of changing anything in a banjo rear, it really is a no-brainer, 9 or 8”. There are more readily available junk yard pumpkin gearsets for the 9 vs 8” rears so 9” overkill - yes - practicality the 9” is a clear winner in my book. Oh - if you are running a 5.5” bolt pattern go 9”.
Go for it!

[37 truck]

I went the 9" route with 3.73 ratio and a t-5 transmission behind a warmed-over flathead, and love the result.

[51504bat]

A rear end from an earlier Bronco would be a good choice with 5 on 5 1/2 bolt pattern but they are more $$ than 1/2 ton units IIRC. Plus the springs are on top of the axle tubes, again IIRC. An 8 inch out of a Maverick would be a good choice based on it's 56.25 WMS to WMS but it's 5 on 4 1/2 and most are high 2's or low 3's ratios.

[cas3]

I think its a good idea. The rear that was popular with those darn kids was the 57 -59 ford car 9" rearend as it was the best match in width for the old Ford bodies.

61 1/4". 57-72 f100
57.1/4" 57 -59 car
I can't remember, is your open drive banjo wider than 48 cars?

[Als48]

Gary, This sounds like a good idea to me, from reading how much work is involved in working on brakes or axles, etc on a banjo-style rear. This may be a more HAMB related discussion, but there may be another option. Don't know if it would be much if any cheaper, but there is an outfit in California (Where else?) that can provide 9" axles, bearings, and such for your existing rear. It would probably involve a complete rebuild of the assembly anyway, tho. to get to where you would like to be.

Al Hook

Don't forget: "Murphy's law is one of the natural laws that you don't read about in the psysics books"

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by cas3

I think its a good idea. The rear that was popular with those darn kids was the 57 -59 ford car 9" rearend as it was the best match in width for the old Ford bodies.

61 1/4". 57-72 f100
57.1/4" 57 -59 car
I can't remember, is your open drive banjo wider than 48 cars?

Skip, probably so. The pickups got a 2 1/2" increase in width in '42. This was also true of the tonners. My '38 tonner express had 46 1/2" between rear fender wells in bed. Imagine what I went throgh as a cabinetmaker running that thing all those years. The jailbar tonner express has 49" clear! The tailgate closes too.

[cadillac512]

I've never seen an 8" with 5.5 bolt pattern. 8.8 sure...but not 8". A 9" from a pickup would be perfect. That's a good plan, GB, and you'll be glad you did it.

[expavr]

Gary
I would definitely stick with the 4.11 ratio. When driving the local rural roads in 3 speed standard drive, I’ve found it useful on the Tonner in combination with the engine compression to assist braking. Also useful when pulling a trailer or a parade float.
Les

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by cadillac512

I've never seen an 8" with 5.5 bolt pattern. 8.8 sure...but not 8". A 9" from a pickup would be perfect. That's a good plan, GB, and you'll be glad you did it.

I had one out in SoCal about 40 years ago (was going to use the axles in a banjo build) . . . I believe I still have the 28 spline axles in my Mom's garage.

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by expavr

Gary
I would definitely stick with the 4.11 ratio. When driving the local rural roads in 3 speed standard drive, I’ve found it useful on the Tonner in combination with the engine compression to assist braking. Also useful when pulling a trailer or a parade float.
Les

Last time I was in Hansville I didn't notice any superhighways! As far as the 4:11 goes, I have learned through 48 years on this giant rock that it's as tall as I want here. Keep in mind I'm partial to tall narrow tires, and HP just north of 100 at best. It's that Borg Warner OD that keeps me truckin' on Interste 5

[TomT/Williamsburg]

A 9 or 8” is alot easier to work on, parts are still readily available, and it’s a much stronger than a banjo, 8 or 9”, for a 1/2 ton truck. For me, I think 75 mph at 2500 rpm - there are calculators out there to figure this out w/5th gear ratio, tire diameter, gearset - a flathead’ needs hesat and its sweetspot is 22-2800 rpm. My avatar w/stock flathead can run 85 mph at 2800 rpm and never missed a beat and never overheated. Stick in the 8 or 9” - you won’t regret it!

[GB SISSON]

Proving to be harder to find than I thought. While I have never used facebook for 'socializing' have to say their marketplace is surpassing craigslist in any catergory I go to. But still nothing coming up. Thought I'd call some wrecking yards today, but really I would not be too surprised to find one on the island. It's expensive to get rid of vehicles here when scrap is so low. Pickups have long been a mainstay and older vehicles are still viable for a dd or work truck because of speed or distance. I can put out some feelers here on the island too. Maybe a want ad on FTE site.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Proving to be harder to find than I thought. While I have never used facebook for 'socializing' have to say their marketplace is surpassing craigslist in any catergory I go to. But still nothing coming up. Thought I'd call some wrecking yards today, but really I would not be too surprised to find one on the island. It's expensive to get rid of vehicles here when scrap is so low. Pickups have long been a mainstay and older vehicles are still viable for a dd or work truck because of speed or distance. I can put out some feelers here on the island too. Maybe a want ad on FTE site.

The important part is to make sure you can pull the pumpkin and inspect the gears and bearings. If you can't do that, you have no idea as to what you're getting into. It is not a hard job . . . just a bit messy! LOL

[slowforty]

IF you get an 8 inch rearend be careful putting it back together. If yopu put the Pig in upside down you will ha 3 speeds in reverse. Dont ask how I know this

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by slowforty

IF you get an 8 inch rearend be careful putting it back together. If yopu put the Pig in upside down you will ha 3 speeds in reverse. Dont ask how I know this

That could come in very handy in a demolition derby!

[Newc]

Swap meet season is here. Found a real old wrecking yard nr Elma , Wa; got my Olds eng there two weeks ago. you want a 1/2ton Ford PU rear diff complete 57 thru 72. Auto adj brakes in the later ones. Thru town on north side, just a fence and all blackberries. Across street is a junkie living with all sorts of wrecks. Pm me for phone to that junkie- he was at Early Bird swap this yr. Newc

[rich b]

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Stay with your '57-'72 F-100 9" plan; it checks all the boxes. Right width, good gear ratio, correct bolt pattern, and decent 11" brakes.

In any case it might be a good idea to update your front brakes if you are still running Lockheed brakes.

[GB SISSON]

Things looking up! Rebuilt and unused 4:11 28 spline 3rd member located and another guy that has a complete rear axle he pulled from a '56 half ton that is definately a 9", He pulled the third member out of it for another project with a 9" rear. The axle is about an hour's drive from the ferry dock on the mainland. I will keep you posted. Both sellers are very knowledgable ford enthusiasts from the old school. Yay! Details to follow.

[GB SISSON]

The guy no longer has the one from the '56 but turns out his son has one at his shop from a '71 F100. He took the pumpkin out and put it in a customer's '67 mustang. He said axles are 28 spline. Son sent me the pics. Gonna try to get down there next week.

[cas3]

Thats a good one, I think they got wider brakes in 67 or so

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by cas3

Thats a good one, I think they got wider brakes in 67 or so

The drums look to be wider than my stock setup. I think they might be 11" diameter.

[cas3]

They are 11" x 2", self adjusting, Bendix. My new 61, 11x1 3/4, manual adjusters.

[GB SISSON]

So I scored on this one Skip? Best part is I have met and had detailed phone conversations with two super nice and helpful 79 year old Ford experts. Sure, some of the details have been about our families, hobbies, work, weather, health etc, but it reminds me of the days of collecting early gas engines and parts in the 80s when you'd read an ad in 'Gas Engine Magazine', or car parts in Hemmings, and you'd 'meet' some guy in Nebraska (or 49 other states) that actually had the part or knew how to make one or find one. I'll never forget a call to Oklahoma where the wife answered and said "He's out Chorin' ". I had her repeat it 3 times and finally she yelled... "He's out DOIN' his CHORES, he'll call you when he gets in."

[cas3]

Good humor GB, Hillbilly is one of the more difficult languages to master. I'm sure the old feller had a notion that if he quit chorin to talk about old junk he may get a whoopin.

Next, you will have to "figger" the brakes. That may take some cypherin as you got 3 1/6 lines in the new rear, and...the old single master and 1/4" in the woody? Rich B the brake guru will hopefully come in and sort this all out.

[GB SISSON]

I'm sure I will need plenty of help getting the brakes working correctly and as usual will be looking to those who have been down that ol' road before me for advice. I am trying to train myself to be happy with my three current old trucks instead of every year dragging home another beater to get running and stopping. My new path is to finish the three keepers I now have with good headlights, wipers, heaters etc. Piece by piece I am now doing that with help from lots of you 'Barners, And thanks!

[Bored&Stroked]

I wonder how wide that new housing is? It just looks wide to me . . . but who the heck knows from just a picture. You might have him measure drum face to drum face as well as center of spring pad to center of spring pad.

But, if it needs to be narrowed, that can be done (with the right equipment). The axles can be shortened and resplined as well. The only issue is that "that all takes money"!

[GB SISSON]

All good Dale. Keep in mind the jailbars are 2 1/2" wider than the prewar pickups and like today's pickups haul 4x8 plywood between the wheel wells, so yes it would look wide to most here. Extensive research assures me that any housing from an F100 1957-1972 is a direct bolt in to a '42-'56 1/2 ton. Spring perches as well as housing width, which is 61.25 would be spot on. This housing was not offered up anywhere or listed for sale, but the father of the axle's owner referred me to it. The dad has been a die-hard ford truck collector for many years and from talking to the son, he learned much from dad. Sellers daughter drives a '72 f100. Needed sheet metal. They followed a lead to Prosser Wa on the dry side of the Cascades and bought a comp;ete and rust free parts truck '71. Upon arriving home the truck was parted out. At some point the 3rd member went to that mustang. I checked body styles and '71-72 are same, so I know it isn't from a '73. Guy was super helpful and friendly and said I could have the complete setup seen in the photos for 200 bucks. The completely rebuilt 4:11 pumpkin is coming from a Barner we all know, so I have great confidence in these transactions!

[Bored&Stroked]

Great news . . . I've never built or owned a later truck, so it is good to know that I've finally heard of the a part that actually "bolts in" . . . versus having to cut, splice, cuss, swear and massage it to fit! It will be perfect for your setup and the brakes are easy to work on and will be a great improvement to the old Lockheed stuff. As others noted, you might consider changing the front brakes to a later setup . . . then you'd really have the "Cat's Ass". Keep us posted on your progress!

[GB SISSON]

Thanks for the vote of confidence Dale. I just now read a thread on the Hamb detailing a '57-'72 9" from an f100 under a jailbar 1/2 ton. This afternoon I whipped up a crate made from 1" and 3/4" scrap plywood that fits a 9" third member. It is glued and screwed, will have a screwed down plywood lid, then banded with steel banding. This empty crate will head to Minnesota tomorrow to be returned with the great pumpkin.

[cas3]

Even put handles in the box. You're somthin else GB

[GB SISSON]

That punkin' weighs 63 lbs and I bet the crate is 5 and so I figured it was the least I could do. You know I'm way too cheap to buy handles.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Thanks for the vote of confidence Dale. I just now read a thread on the Hamb detailing a '57-'72 9" from an f100 under a jailbar 1/2 ton. This afternoon I whipped up a crate made from 1" and 3/4" scrap plywood that fits a 9" third member. It is glued and screwed, will have a screwed down plywood lid, then banded with steel banding. This empty crate will head to Minnesota tomorrow to be returned with the great pumpkin.

[cas3]

Lets see the inside...I'd be disappointed if there no carved out cradle for it to sit secure

[GB SISSON]

When I offered to build and ship a crate, he gave me tight inside dimensions and then we decided he could through-bolt the yoke to the box. How bout putting the thing in a trash bag and unloading a can of expanding foam in there? Ok Two trash bags.....and quick with the banding.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

When I offered to build and ship a crate, he gave me tight inside dimensions and then we decided he could through-bolt the yoke to the box. How bout putting the thing in a trash bag and unloading a can of expanding foam in there? Ok Two trash bags.....and quick with the banding.

Get the wrong foam and that crate will bust wide open. Those handle holes might just save it, but I wouldn't bet the bank on it.

[sidevalve8ba]

GB,
In my not so original '32 pick-up I have a 9 inch rearend that does a fine job. I did upgrade the front brakes to '55 F-100's and I am pleased with the outcome. I too am using a T-5 behind a 276 inch '50 Merc powerplant. You won't be disappointed.

[GB SISSON]

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Originally Posted by sidevalve8ba

GB,
In my not so original '32 pick-up I have a 9 inch rearend that does a fine job. I did upgrade the front brakes to '55 F-100's and I am pleased with the outcome. I too am using a T-5 behind a 276 inch '50 Merc powerplant. You won't be disappointed.

Hmmmm, do those front brakes bolt right up? What range of years would I be looking for? Oh, and I was sort of kidding about that foam. Things can go wrong real fast with that crap.....

[sidevalve8ba]

I am using '47 passenger spindles and yes, they do bolt up to them. But I am not sure about your application. I am sure someone will jump in and enlighten us. The '53-'56 F-100 brakes are the same as far as I know. I hope this helps.

[GB SISSON]

Thanks sidevalve, I wonder how much of an upgrade over regular jailbar front brakes. Bigger or different system? in the old days of trucks, they always had big ol brakes on the rear and car-like brakes on the front. As technology evolved, it seems like there's more emphasis on powerful front brakes today. And I just shipped the empty crate.... 21.23 lbs! I couldn't stop myself from gluing and stapling in some 45 degree inside corners at the last minute and there's two 10' rolls of perforated steel 'plumber's tape' attached to the crate's floor to circumnavigate the perimeter with on the return trip.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Thanks sidevalve, I wonder how much of an upgrade over regular jailbar front brakes. Bigger or different system? in the old days of trucks, they always had big ol brakes on the rear and car-like brakes on the front. As technology evolved, it seems like there's more emphasis on powerful front brakes today. And I just shipped the empty crate.... 21.23 lbs! I couldn't stop myself from gluing and stapling in some 45 degree inside corners at the last minute and there's two 10' rolls of perforated steel 'plumber's tape' attached to the crate's floor to circumnavigate the perimeter with on the return trip.

[sidevalve8ba]

That is a stout box, GB. Industrial strength I would say. Those F-100 brakes are 11X2" if I remember correctly. Don't know if that is bigger than what you have but they are easy to adjust and stop well. I, unlike some folks, am kind of partial to drums.

[flatford8]

Gary…thats a nice looking crate…did I miss who you are using for a shipper?……. hope things are well way over there….we got a second shot of winter today……..Mark

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by flatford8

Gary…thats a nice looking crate…did I miss who you are using for a shipper?……. hope things are well way over there….we got a second shot of winter today……..Mark

We got 1 1/2 " of rain yesterday, but mid 60s spring day forecast for tomorrow.
I sent the empty out on UPS, Lanny has suggested shipping it back it back via Fedex. The weight is going to come in around 83 lbs. If that should be over their limit, I have no doubt we will come up with a suitable alternative.

[flatford8]

I sent a motor to Texas last year with Fastenal……don’t know if that’s an option but it went well for me…….if I can offer a suggestion, a couple of 3”x3”or 4”x4”blocks under two bottom edges so a forklift can under it, might not be a bad idea. That way a lift operator would resist the temptation to try and put a lift truck tine thru the handles, if its heavier than they’re expected to lift by hand……….Mark

[51504bat]

Originally Posted by flatford8

I sent a motor to Texas last year with Fastenal……don’t know if that’s an option but it went well for me…….if I can offer a suggestion, a couple of 3”x3”or 4”x4”blocks under two bottom edges so a forklift can under it, might not be a bad idea. That way a lift operator would resist the temptation to try and put a lift truck tine thru the handles, if its heavier than they’re expected to lift by hand……….Mark

Don't know where the third member is coming from but Fastenal doesn't ship east to west or west to east. I believe the dividing line is the Mississippi River or there abouts. But it's been a while since I checked with Fastenal about shipping so things may have changed.

[Bored&Stroked]

Damn Gary . . . I think you need to be in the "custom box building business" . . . have never seen such a nice wooden box to ship a greasy ole' car part! They really should attempt to "tie down" the 3rd member . . . with some layers of cardboard underneath it. Almost any regular insulation will get beat down during its travels . . .

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

Don't know where the third member is coming from but Fastenal doesn't ship east to west or west to east. I believe the dividing line is the Mississippi River or there abouts. But it's been a while since I checked with Fastenal about shipping so things may have changed.

The motor I shipped went from Maine to Texas…… can’t go much further west than that from here….. Mark

[51504bat]

Originally Posted by flatford8

The motor I shipped went from Maine to Texas…… can’t go much further west than that from here….. Mark

Direct from the Fastenal web site:

The key is consistency. Because 95% of our routes are static (trucks running fixed routes through the night to service our branches and customers), we’re able to provide consistent service and control transportation costs.

Fastenal does not currently offer shipping between East and West Zones as shown on below map.

Fastenal does not offer transportation services between the US and Canada.

[GB SISSON]

I looked at fedex site.... 150 lbs. With 20' of perforated steel strapping in the box, some could be used to loop over it in the box and screw down to floor, which is 1" plywood. Yes, cardboard where it fits too and I think he's gonna bolt the yoke through the box side.

[Lanny]

Hi Gary, I'm waiting for a Blue Lane Rep to call me with some details on shippng.
Talk to you then by phone.... thx, Lanny




.

[GB SISSON]

I have the utmost faith in you to send it off in the most reasonable way possible.

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

Direct from the Fastenal web site:

The key is consistency. Because 95% of our routes are static (trucks running fixed routes through the night to service our branches and customers), we’re able to provide consistent service and control transportation costs.

Fastenal does not currently offer shipping between East and West Zones as shown on below map.

Fastenal does not offer transportation services between the US and Canada.

Well, there ‘ya go……I thought if you went past Texas, you dropped off the edge…….that never came up when I was dealing with them so I just figured they went right to the coast.Thanks! I’ll remember that for future reference ….I guess this is why I don’t sell many big things……..Mark

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by Lanny

Hi Gary, I'm waiting for a Blue Lane Rep to call me with some details on shippng.
Talk to you then by phone.... thx, Lanny




.

Sent that tracking number by PM Looks like you'll get your crate on April 1 No foolin'.
Funny, same day wife has Dr. visit on mainland and we detour 'a bit' and pickup that '71 f100 axle assembly. She's not very keen on the old 90w smell which will be wafting up from the back of my old gov't issue suburban, so I'm thinking we pick up a kid's rubber ball like 9 1/2" dia, we bring some big rubber bands cut from an old red inner tube. Oughta hold that ball against the housing for a 'gas tight' seal. I'll hear about it if not..... Edit: perhaps napa here has that gasket. Ill check tomorrow. I could trace it onto 1/2" ply and make a bolt on cover.

[Bored&Stroked]

Duct tape and a rubber ball!

[GB SISSON]

Our napa here is closed on Sunday so I can't ask about a gasket. Could happen tomorrow, but deflating that ball slightly so it fits in and them pumping it up would be perfect. Without some sealing method I can already hear my wife talking to her sister on the phone next day..... "All the way home all I could smell was his stinky rear end!" sheesh is there a 'roll eyes' imogee here?

[Ray in La Mesa]

You could also just rap a large plastic trash bag around it.

[ford38v8]

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Gary, if all your wife has got to complain about is smelling the old greaser’s rear end, I’m thinking she must be pretty content with her life in the boonies.

[Bored&Stroked]

Poor woman . . . poor poor woman . . .

[GB SISSON]

Her moving up onto Mt. Pickett with me was getting out of the boonies for her. Born and raised on Vashon Island which has two ferry routes serving it and is near to Seattle, she moved to Crane Island off of Orcas, which has no ferry service. She had a 14' aluminum skiff with a 15 hp for commuting. Once she even swam a mule across, tethered to the skiff while she rowed as the motor spooked it. A series of moves and some misfortune along the way, but she has always perservered and takes the high and happy road. Although Pickett's lane isn't paved, it suits us both very well. She's a keeper for sure. And yes the poor thing has to put up with this old greaser, and that is NOT always easy!

[cas3]

Well, I was thinkin you made a poor choice if she gags at 90wt smell....but I guess she's Ok !

[Bored&Stroked]

Yeah, the smell of gear oil just reminds me of working on cars . . . doesn't bother me a bit. Heck, I probably like it! LOL

I guess it is kind of like Hoppes #9 - gun cleaning solvent - it brings back nothing but good memories for me!

[51504bat]

IIRC she can weld. Definitely a keeper.

[GB SISSON]

First girl to enter the welding program at Vashon Island high school. 3 years worth. Yeah, that gal can lay down a bead. And NO, she didn't shoot the owl for dinner. She insisted we pull over on the highway outa Tarretown Idaho to check out the poor bird that had bounced off the grill of a Kenworth. It was quite dead so she placed it out in the open for the buzzards. About 15 years ago.... Someone remind me what this thread was about. Huh?

[tubman]

Maybe if "Marvel Mystery Oil" made a rear end lube.....

[Bored&Stroked]

Gary, you should have had that dang owl stuffed . . . would be a heck of a 'pet' to have out in your shop! Watching over all the madness that occurs in our work!

[cas3]

Can you get away with buying her a nice tig welder for Christmas?

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

First girl to enter the welding program at Vashon Island high school. 3 years worth. Yeah, that gal can lay down a bead. And NO, she didn't shoot the owl for dinner. She insisted we pull over on the highway outa Tarretown Idaho to check out the poor bird that had bounced off the grill of a Kenworth. It was quite dead so she placed it out in the open for the buzzards. About 15 years ago.... Someone remind me what this thread was about. Huh?

[GB SISSON]

Boy, this thread has a mind of it's own. I know we'll get back to serious business after we return home from the hunt... I mean the doctor visit! And thanks again Pete for the nice portrait.

[GB SISSON]

Home from the hunt. Pleased to find all the dimensions work out perfectly by tape measure. It's still in the back of the 'burb as two contractors are fighting over my services until Friday. I find this axle has the 'large bearing' option and it also has 11" x 2 1/4" brakes. All my resarch shows the 11" brakes should be 1 3/4 wide. Not the case here. The shoes have more meat than I will ever wear off in my lifetime and the shafts are 28 spline like Lanny's 3rd member. The distance between backing plates is 1/4" wider than on the woodie's banjo. The wider drums may increase the track width some, but I have two inches each side before tires rub fenders, so a non issue. It has one dry sounding wheel bearing so will replace both right off. The thing that surprised me most about my introduction to the 9" rear is those sealed ball bearings outside of the housing with the oil seal behind them. Who'da thunkit? Anyways, they are of course readily available. The sites selling these have a wild array of years they fit '48-'79, '53-'72, '64-'79. And everything in between I guess I'll just have to saw them off and find numbers. SKF? Timken? And no, I won't nick into the axle shaft. This will begin Friday if I can get the contractors off my back by late Thursday..... Oh and my buddy Lanny called me last night just before the ferry pulled in to Orcas to tell me he has my pumpkin in the crate! I've had my ass in a sling before, but I'll take my pumpkin in a crate any day over that. Stay tuned.

[cas3]

look at Rock Auto for bearings, I think you'll find them quite reasonable

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by cas3

look at Rock Auto for bearings, I think you'll find them quite reasonable

I have National part # 514003 bearing with retainer and #51098 seal coming along with felpro gaskets at the 4 bolt ends and the pumpkin. X 2 for both sides.

[GB SISSON]

I got a chance today to start stripping parts off the axle assembly. I have watched a few youtube episodes about removing the old wheel bearings and their pressed on keepers. I wasn't sure I liked cutting deep slots through all these pieces without nicking the axle shaft so I went another route. I had an idea to cut a length of steel pipe, weld a 3/4" nut on the end and then weld a couple scraps of 1/8 x 3/4" strap to the other end to weld the keeper ring and crank a 3/4" bolt through the nut into the splined end of the axle shaft. 'Weld heat expands ring and I simply wrench the ring upwards'. Much to my dismay , every nut, bolt, pipe and washer I could find was galvanized. In a hurry, didn't remove enough zinc so had a weld fail. Once I repaired that, my 1/2" impact sheared off the drive bolt which I made from a piece of galvanized 3/4" all-thread that I shouldered down to accept a 1/2" lug nut plug welded on the end. I found a big square galvanized nut to weld on instead but was sick of grinding off the zinc. In the final analysis, the cut-off wheel seemed like a darned good idea and no nicks at all. Next remove all parts from the housing. I DID get some satisfaction from removing the oil seals with a heavy steel bar from a fireplace flue damper plate. It has a series of hook notches and made light work of it, neatly pulling each seal in three jerks.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

I got a chance today to start stripping parts off the axle assembly.

[pistonbroke]

Gary, I never cut all the way though. Just enough so I can split it with a a good chissel and hammer. The collers are much softer than the bearing. Tim

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by pistonbroke

Gary, I never cut all the way though. Just enough so I can split it with a a good chissel and hammer. The collers are much softer than the bearing. Tim

Yes Tim. I understand that from the video. And the collar was tougher to break off with the air chisel. The bearing races as expected, broke like glass. I cut at about a 45degree angle so as not to cut into the bearing retainer plate as I was using a standard (but worn down) 4" cutoff blade. In looking at my failed puller, I may have inadvertently created the world's fastest caulking gun, so all is not lost
Now the question segment: The brake tubes on this 1971 axle look smaller than on my '47 jailbar. Should I try to find a conversion size or adapter for the rubber hose and keep everything on the axles at 3/16" or whatever that is I'm looking at?

[cas3]

If you are staying with the original MC, I would look for a wheel cylinder that same bore, that uses a 1/4" line. If going to a dual MC, then start plumbing the whole truck like a 71 ford, 3 1/6

[GB SISSON]

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Originally Posted by cas3

If you are staying with the original MC, I would look for a wheel cylinder that same bore, that uses a 1/4" line. If going to a dual MC, then start plumbing the whole truck like a 71 ford, 3 1/6

Ok Skip, I'm leaning towards single master. All wheel cyls and lines are new along with the master. For added safety I have a remote resevoir I made from a gas engine drip oiler to mount on the firewall that never got installed. What about all the other aspects of this new 1/4" style of wheel cylinder? Bolt spacing, center indexing circle etc? Anyone here have a source or number for such a cylinder, or pair of cylinders?

[cas3]

I think the hole and the bolt spacing is pretty generic on car size stuff. My 61 has 3/16 Lines, maybe earlier f100's, or f1's, not sure when Ford got away from 1/4" lines.

It may work fine as is with just the rubber line to the diff with 2 different size ends if there is such a thing. I'm not a brakeoligist, maybe some one else has some thoughts.

[GB SISSON]

I'm not a proctologist, but I've been working on a rear end most of the day. Is there a brakeologist in the house? The little hole bored into the wheel cylinder at the inverted flare fitting is pretty goldang small, so that must limit flow to a point? When Henry switched from 1/4" lines to 3/16" he not only saved money on the lines themselves, but fittings and a half ounce of brake fluid too. If I was a hick I'd just get a double barb fitting and use half of each hose. Double hose clamps on each barb (for safety) of course.

[Scotty's 52 F3]

Gary, my F3 has 1/4" brake lines and the 72 F250 Dana 60 has 3/16 lines to the wheel cylinders. I kept it that way by modifying my Tee fitting and using two adapters. Been working trouble free for many years and yes it stops well.


Here's the stock hose and block. The long nipple is from the 1972 F250. That hose was cut off by the PO and wouldn't have worked anyway. I had to drill out the block so the nipple would fit. It originally had a hose going up under the bed for a vent. The small breather is the original from the Timken rear.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...bd343ba6b5.jpg

[Scotty's 52 F3]

Sorry, I was not able to copy and paste from my post over on FTE. It lets me include a link to the pic though.


Block drilled out. Adapters are Edelman #258340.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...a9064a5716.jpg

[Scotty's 52 F3]

I cut the nipple down, drilled and tapped it to 1/8" NPT so I could put the stock breather in. I really don't want to run a hose up under the bed. Washer is a crush washer to seal the bolt.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...0759929f4e.jpg

[Scotty's 52 F3]

I'm happy with this. Everything is stock 52 F3 up to the block. The rest is 72 F250. Done!
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...ef5a8c145b.jpg

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Scotty's 52 F3

I'm happy with this. Everything is stock 52 F3 up to the block. The rest is 72 F250. Done!
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...ef5a8c145b.jpg

[GB SISSON]

Wow! Lots of great info and I'll give it a go. Is the end of our 1/4" hose a tapered pipe thread into the block? IIRC the '71 block is factory swedged to the brass block. So I cut it flush, bore and tap? I see no problem with a vent hose under the bed, so I'll save a step, and Pete, I still think your enlargements are either more clear or larger than clicking onto the FTE small photo.
I have the housing in primer now. Stripping brakes next, but those darn contractors are in a dither now with summerfolk soon to be coming in droves. This coming week is shot, but my best vehicle repair bay is taken up anyhow with an ongoing restoration of a maritime artifact for a client.

[cas3]

Scotty has good info, better than hose clamps where you may have to rebuild the chicken coop again

[GB SISSON]

Originally Posted by cas3

Scotty has good info, better than hose clamps where you may have to rebuild the chicken coop again

Ya just won't let that one go

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/6unhaM7Seww

[Scotty's 52 F3]

Gary, I think that was my original 52 F3 block and I just screwed a new hose in it. It was already tapped.

Edit; I went back and found pics of that block on my original Timken axle. It had a bolt through the hole I drilled out for the vent fitting.

[GB SISSON]

After 3 days of running around and trying to reason with fedex chatbots about how 517 Picketts lane is on an island etc...I came across a fedex stepvan pulling out of a gravel driveway and cut them off. The driver and I exchanged some info and I told her it arrived just across the sound on Friday... Then I described a plywood crate yay by yay 98 lbs. And she said 'wait a minute' and there it was ! She folloed me up the half mile of steepness and she grabbed the hand holds and carried it over and set it on the slab. I was on my way home with brak-kleen and other stuff to redo the backing plates, YAY! Got me a punkin', Thanks Lanny

[tubman]

Looks like your box made it through with flying colors!

[L-head]

If you really want to wander out in left field, considering the amount of 3/4 and 1T axles assemblies you own, why not consider building a "quick change." Use 2 left side original cast iron side bells and a Frankland center section. Your gear choices would be unlimited. Hard to beat the look of a qc under a truck or car.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by L-head

If you really want to wander out in left field, considering the amount of 3/4 and 1T axles assemblies you own, why not consider building a "quick change." Use 2 left side original cast iron side bells and a Frankland center section. Your gear choices would be unlimited. Hard to beat the look of a qc under a truck or car.

I have a couple of sets of quick change gears for a Frankland left over from my "racing days" if that'll help.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

After 3 days of running around and trying to reason with fedex chatbots about how 517 Picketts lane is on an island etc...I came across a fedex stepvan pulling out of a gravel driveway and cut them off. The driver and I exchanged some info and I told her it arrived just across the sound on Friday... Then I described a plywood crate yay by yay 98 lbs. And she said 'wait a minute' and there it was ! She folloed me up the half mile of steepness and she grabbed the hand holds and carried it over and set it on the slab. I was on my way home with brak-kleen and other stuff to redo the backing plates, YAY! Got me a punkin', Thanks Lanny

[GB SISSON]

I don't know anything about quick change rear axles, so I will just plug along as planned. Been waiting on some parts and distracted by work and a few other things, but yesterday I opend the crate. I love the look of long stored parts that have been stored properly. I think Lanny had this built in the 80's so I'm gonna wager the bearings were not produced 'overseas'. Nice job of bolting this thing in Lanny! and thanks again for making the effort to get this half way across the country.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

I don't know anything about quick change rear axles, so I will just plug along as planned. Been waiting on some parts and distracted by work and a few other things, but yesterday I opend the crate. I love the look of long stored parts that have been stored properly. I think Lanny had this built in the 80's so I'm gonna wager the bearings were not produced 'overseas'. Nice job of bolting this thing in Lanny! and thanks again for making the effort to get this half way across the country.

[Lanny]

Hi Gary, Ya, I kept track of all the stops Fed-Ex made
taking the box across the country for delivery to you.
By the way, that was a super nice strong box you made.

Anyway, when Fed-Ex got to the west end of
Washington state and ran into the Pacific Ocean.
The tracking got a little wanky then.

They must of finally figured out that your address
of Orcas Island was a real Island and their little truck
had to take a ferry boat ride to find you..

Glad it made it to you safe and sound. Now Have Fun.

Thanks, Lanny




.

[GB SISSON]

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I am finally making progress on this '71 F100 rear axle swap. I had a lot of work commitments and various mechanical situations with our regular driver vehicles. I suppose we should own something built in this century at some point...Have been mostly cleaning parts and painting. If my dad were still alive, I could hear him saying " What the heck you building Gary? Thing's gonna look like a goldang Circus Wagon!". I do like cleaning old steel parts with the wire wheel, priming and painting. Today I used up six partial spray cans, and my dad woulda been right, as I never seem to 'play like the other kids'. Black on black just ain't much fun. Lastly, that is ONE heavy third member Lanny sent me. Truth be told, I just thought the whole assembly would have been smaller. I do thing somebody here told me the 9" would be overkill. But Hey, it IS still a truck after all, and it's gonna still look exactly the same unless one were to crawl underneath it. But I'll know what's down there when I'm heading out on an adventure.

[cas3]

WoW Gary looks like your doin a 100 point restoration ! But...the super fine woody deserves it. I'm the snoopy guy that looks at the background, and your shop looks great.
new lathe, and the macho grinder I am jelouse of, carry on my friend!

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

I am finally making progress on this '71 F100 rear axle swap. I had a lot of work commitments and various mechanical situations with our regular driver vehicles. I suppose we should own something built in this century at some point...Have been mostly cleaning parts and painting. If my dad were still alive, I could hear him saying " What the heck you building Gary? Thing's gonna look like a goldang Circus Wagon!". I do like cleaning old steel parts with the wire wheel, priming and painting. Today I used up six partial spray cans, and my dad woulda been right, as I never seem to 'play like the other kids'. Black on black just ain't much fun. Lastly, that is ONE heavy third member Lanny sent me. Truth be told, I just thought the whole assembly would have been smaller. I do thing somebody here told me the 9" would be overkill. But Hey, it IS still a truck after all, and it's gonna still look exactly the same unless one were to crawl underneath it. But I'll know what's down there when I'm heading out on an adventure.

[GB SISSON]

Thank you Pete and Skip. Pete, your new avatar is such a great word picture, if that's the right term. It brought an instant smile to my face and made me think of this George Strait song.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...i=2h3nIMiXneYG

Sure, it's kinda sappy. So sue me....

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Pete, your new avatar is such a great word picture, if that's the right term. It brought an instant smile to my face and made me think of this George Strait song.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/searc...i=2h3nIMiXneYG

Sure, it's kinda sappy. So sue me....

"Dad, the fish are biting"...

Reminds me of my son on a duck hunting morning...

[Randy in ca]

Originally Posted by GB SISSON

Thank you Pete and Skip. Pete, your new avatar is such a great word picture, if that's the right term. It brought an instant smile to my face and made me think of this George Strait song.........

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Indeed a classic image from amongst the hundreds that graced the front pages of the Saturday Evening Post over the years.

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