What options do I've left?

[Conrad Rossi]

Hello,

The rear left axle tip where the castle nut bolts on to keep the brake drum in place is bent and stripped. This explains why the seller gave the nut, washer, and cuttle pin in a bag when I bought the car. Lesson learned. I should have tried it to it back then. I didn't think anything of it because he had taken apart the front brakes and they were bagged as well.

As you can imagine it doesn't thread back in. It's bent enough the nut cannot "turn" when it's fastened.

What options do I have? Any tricks? Probably I'm not the first one having this issue.

Thanks.

[ford38v8]

Conrad, you have an unfortunate situation in which you must not drive the car until repaired, else risk an even more expensive repair. The nut must come off, and the axle replaced. Odds are, even now, you will need to sleeve the housing and replace the bearings. As you are apparently new to the Early Ford hobby, I'd advise you to join the Early Ford V8 Club of America, Phoenix Regional Group # 37, network with the members, and seek help there. Get hold of Brian Parks: [email protected] PH: 602-568-5896

[Eagle43]

Originally Posted by Conrad Rossi

Hello,

The rear left axle tip where the castle nut bolts on to keep the brake drum in place is bent and stripped. This explains why the seller gave the nut, washer, and cuttle pin in a bag when I bought the car. Lesson learned. I should have tried it to it back then. I didn't think anything of it because he had taken apart the front brakes and they were bagged as well.

As you can imagine it doesn't thread back in. It's bent enough the nut cannot "turn" when it's fastened.

What options do I have? Any tricks? Probably I'm not the first one having this issue.

Thanks.

If I understand your situation correctly, you just need to straighten out the threads at the end so you can get the nut started. I would try a triangular file.

[itslow]

A photo would really help to illustrate your exact situation and proper course of action.

It sounds to me like you need a replacement axle shaft.

[richard crow]

if its just flared on the end .jack up that side. place a horse under the housing leave the other side on the ground. remove the drum start the car put in speed . now hold a good file agenest the damage & remove it. if the damage is very bad hold a hack saw behind the damage & cut it off then chase the thread with a die if there is enought thread left to hold the nut

[ndnchf]

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Your axle may very well need to be replaced. But there is a tool specifically made to straighten out damaged axle threads. These can be found at good vintage swap meets and ebay. The tool has a variety of thread sizes. It clamps over a good part of the threads, then you unscrew it off the axle. These were common tools in old school garages.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Conrad, you have an unfortunate situation in which you must not drive the car until repaired, else risk an even more expensive repair. The nut must come off, and the axle replaced. Odds are, even now, you will need to sleeve the housing and replace the bearings. As you are apparently new to the Early Ford hobby, I'd advise you to join the Early Ford V8 Club of America, Phoenix Regional Group # 37, network with the members, and seek help there. Get hold of Brian Parks: [email protected] PH: 602-568-5896

This is the best advice. Replace the axle.
You know the old adage of "do it once, do it correctly".

[34fordy]

You don't really have any good "options"! There are thread files available with the correct pitch, however-----
The amount of torque needed to set the hub on your axle requires perfect threads on your axle. As Kube and others said, replace axle--Once and done.

[deuce_roadster]

What Kube said x3.
All the other things mentioned will most likely not allow the proper torque on the nut to prevent the axle from breaking due to the drum working back and forth on the key. The key has NOTHING TO DO with driving hub of the car, it is the taper on the axle against the taper in the drum which requires the torque on the nut to be VERY tight. I am talking over 150 ft/lbs. The best way to achieve this is to tighten the nut up to say 75 lbs with a torque wrench that is good to over 200 lbs, drive around the block, keep tightening it and adding more torque to the point where after you drive around the block, it no longer is loose (you are working the drum onto the taper}. Then and only then take the torque up to around 195 ft lbs. DO NOT try to take the nut up to max torque all at once even on a NOS axle. The tapers on the axle and drum need to be clean and dry.
Improperly torqued axle nuts are the cause of the ends of the axle breaking off and the wheel and drum exiting the vehicle. This is a safety issue you cannot ignore. People new (and not so new) to the Old Ford banjo rear ends may not understand this. I personally have seen 2 cars on different tour lose a rear wheel and tire, damaging the cars and nearly causing an accident with oncoming traffic. Just be smart and safe.
ALL used axles need to be magnafluxed and checked for cracks before use, new ones are getting pretty scarce.

[Tim Brown]

southside obsolete in Minn should have a new axle if you go that route.

[Charlie Stephens]

If you take the easy way and not replace the axle be sure to install safety hubs or clips to make sure when it fails you don't loose the wheel.

Charlie Stephens

[34fordy]

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

If you take the easy way and not replace the axle be sure to install safety hubs or clips to make sure when it fails you don't loose the wheel.

Charlie Stephens

Notice that Charlie said WHEN IT FAILS not IF

[Kube]

Conrad, I know I had sold all of my NOS axles. However, I most likely have super nice, albeit, used, axles.

[Clem Clement]

Nice to finally see that sizing tool. A bud had one years ago, but it got away from him,
Clem

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by deuce_roadster

What Kube said x3.
… tighten the nut up to say 75 lbs with a torque wrench that is good to over 200 lbs, drive around the block, keep tightening it and adding more torque to the point where after you drive around the block, it no longer is loose (you are working the drum onto the taper}. Then and only then take the torque up to around 195 ft lbs. DO NOT try to take the nut up to max torque all at once even on a NOS axle. The tapers on the axle and drum need to be clean and dry...

I respectfully disagree. Drums should be lapped to the tapers, then thoroughly cleaned, new keys installed and torqued to the full 200ft lbs. NOW is the time to take a short run around the block, to include a left turn and a right turn, and recheck the torque. Any joy ride taken without lapping or before full torque can compromise the integrity of the axle.

[richard crow]

most modern day mech, just replace parts years ago we repaird things if the thread passes the nut & coter pin hole lines up & its torqued its not going to come off. & if you put a little red lock tght on it you will need king kong to remove it

[Kube]

Originally Posted by richard crow

most modern day mech, just replace parts years ago we repaird things if the thread passes the nut & coter pin hole lines up & its torqued its not going to come off. & if you put a little red lock tght on it you will need king kong to remove it

Good mechanics insist on doing the job correctly.

[ford38v8]

Richard, you are correct, the drum won’t come off, …until the axle breaks. Burrs often happen on axles that must be removed before installation. If they remain, they will give a false torque value, self abrade, and leave the key to provide the driving force. At that point, the axle will break at the inside edge if the keyway.

[richard crow]

that thread is damaged because some one used p.o.s puller.now if you want to talk why the axles brake . thats a different story

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Conrad, you have an unfortunate situation in which you must not drive the car until repaired, else risk an even more expensive repair. The nut must come off, and the axle replaced. Odds are, even now, you will need to sleeve the housing and replace the bearings. As you are apparently new to the Early Ford hobby, I'd advise you to join the Early Ford V8 Club of America, Phoenix Regional Group # 37, network with the members, and seek help there. Get hold of Brian Parks: [email protected] PH: 602-568-5896

Thanks, Ford38v8. Great idea! I join the V8 Club and the local chapter. Looking forward to meeting people locally with the same interest. I checked sometime ago the Barn roster and I didn’t find many members nearby in the Phoenix area.

[34fordy]

[QUOTE=Conrad Rossi; I checked sometime ago the Barn roster and I didn’t find many members nearby in the Phoenix area.[/QUOTE]

How did you check the Fordbarn roster?

[deuce_roadster]

ford38v8
No, sadly you disrespectfully disagree which is fine. Everything here is an opinion. What I describe could be actually accomplished in your driveway by moving the car under its own power a short distance. Nothing I wrote could be construed as a "joy ride" which for me diminishes your opinion.

[Conrad Rossi]

Good morning All,

Thanks for your patience. I’m grateful for all of your quick and insightful responses and support. Life and other priorities wedged into the hobby and I couldn’t get back with you as quick as I should.

Indeed many options. And one correct one. Do it right and replace the axle, which I agree. Although, not to my liking because my fantasy was “let’s do brakes and drive it around the block and go for breakfast”. Probably, there are many other hidden issues.

I learned a lot from your input, especially second and third best options, and the safety drum clips so to not loose the wheel. I didn’t either about special tooling to fix the axle ends either.

So, where this leaves me? I need to start looking for an axle but first, I need to reevaluate everything from the axle in because everything needs to come off.

Now back to my nutty nut and axle. Attached are the pictures of what looks like. Note the drum comes out free.

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by richard crow

that thread is damaged because some one used p.o.s puller.now if you want to talk why the axles brake . thats a different story

Indeed. They didn’t know what they didn’t know. Probably because the guy I bought it from restored mustangs.

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by 34fordy

How did you check the Fordbarn roster?

I should have said that I searched in the control panel in The Barn for user profiles with a location being Arizona, Phoenix, or a city nearby. Location is a free-form text so it makes it trickier. What I did check, not very recently, was the Early Ford V8 Club.

[Conrad Rossi]

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Originally Posted by Eagle43

If I understand your situation correctly, you just need to straighten out the threads at the end so you can get the nut started. I would try a triangular file.

Thanks. I’ll mostly consider this option until I have an opportunity to replace this axle end or just rebuild it.

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by richard crow

most modern day mech, just replace parts years ago we repaird things if the thread passes the nut & coter pin hole lines up & its torqued its not going to come off. & if you put a little red lock tght on it you will need king kong to remove it

Yes, I didn’t thought of the red loctite. Given the very end is tilted up, I’m not sure I will have enough left after the corner pin hole if I file it.

[Fritz]

I wouldn’t file it or necessarily scrap the axle. Looks to me like someone cross threaded the nut and never fixed the threads. There looks to be good threads on the meaty part. Definitely good enough that I would try an axle thread repair chaser to clean up the threads on the end. Like the tool posted by ndnchf. If you can get them to take the nut and get it straight to the good threads, you’re fine.

[34fordy]

Buy a thread file with the proper pitch. Easy Peasy. Good threads under the cotter pin hole.

[deuce_roadster]

It does look like the threads are good in where they need to be. However, you have no way of knowing how many miles that drum and probably the other was loose. When seated properly, they are difficult to remove without the proper puller the pulls on the ridge built into the part of the drum that sticks out.
A club member used to have a broken axle end that he would bring to meetings to show members how you could see it had been cracked for a long time before it let go as it was dark and discolored in to where it broke and twisted off part was very clean and new looking.
You could remove the drum, clean everything, and there are some non magnaflux crack revealing chemicals that I think are used in the aviation business if you know any A&P mechanics you could check behind the end of the key slot. If you could determine there are NO cracks as far in as you can test you might be able to clean up the outer threads and get the drum to proper torque and put safety clips on to prevent losing the wheel in the event of a break. If it were me I would take the rear end apart and have both axles checked and or replaced. Only you can decide what your level of risk is you want to take.. Old rear end work has stinky old oil and not a lot of fun but even novice folks to old Fords can do it. Good luck with whatever you choose. I hope someone with some experience lives near you with the proper tools and can help.

[Bob C]

Since the threads look good below the cotter pin hole I would
use a rethreading tool to try and straighten the threads, I think a file is going to leave you with a bigger mess. There are 9 rethreaders on Epay. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=Axle+rethreader

[Andy]

I used to retread perch bolts a lot. They have the same threads as the axles. I can rethread from the good threads out. My rethread tool is a very fine split adjustable set. I think I can fix it without welding on new material.
Just rethread would be $20.
Ps, steering shafts have the same threads.

[1942deluxe]

What did you end up doing?

[Conrad Rossi]

Hello --

Long time not posting. I ended up buying an axle rethread tool as Bob C recommended and I was able to successfully rethread the axle end. Successfully, without counting I bought two tools. I didn't have my glasses on and didn't notice it missed the diameter I needed.

Here's some pictures:

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Conrad Rossi

Hello --

Long time not posting. I ended up buying an axle rethread tool as Bob C recommended and I was able to successfully rethread the axle end. Successfully, without counting I bought two tools. I didn't have my glasses on and didn't notice it missed the diameter I needed.

Here's some pictures:

[Conrad Rossi]

Thank you, Petehoovie!!! You're a trooper.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Conrad Rossi

Hello --

Long time not posting. I ended up buying an axle rethread tool as Bob C recommended and I was able to successfully rethread the axle end. Successfully, without counting I bought two tools. I didn't have my glasses on and didn't notice it missed the diameter I needed.

Here's some pictures:

Just curious how brave were you with the torque on that nut afterwards? Keep in mind that the axle key is not what takes the load, it is the fitment between the axle taper and the hub taper . . . which needs a lot of torque to "lock it in". The original specification is about 220 or so foot lbs . . . and it makes me nervous every time I torque an axle nut . . . even on a pristine example!

[Conrad Rossi]

Hi Bored&Stroked -

Not brave enough! I put it back to test it fit well. Thanks for the reminder to ensure a tight fit and to torque it to specs. I'm new to this and I'm eager to learn how to do it appropriately.

The car is on jack stands as it getting a complete brake job. I was able to find someone local that arch the shoes for me.

[Bored&Stroked]

I probably would not go to 220 FT LBS, if you can get to 160 - 180, I would be comfortable with it. I would put some anti-seize lubricant on the threads.

It is a nerve-racking experience tightening these nuts (on any axle!) . . . makes my sphincter snap every time I do it! LOL

That said, torque it (hopefully it holds!) . . . drive it a bit (making sure you go around some corners to put side-load on it), then torque it again.

Then after a few more drives, check it again. If it can hold the initial torque after as few drives and retorques, then I'd feel good about it.

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

I probably would not go to 220 FT LBS, if you can get to 160 - 180, I would be comfortable with it. I would put some anti-seize lubricant on the threads.

It is a nerve-racking experience tightening these nuts (on any axle!) . . . makes my sphincter snap every time I do it! LOL

That said, torque it (hopefully it holds!) . . . drive it a bit (making sure you go around some corners to put side-load on it), then torque it again.

Then after a few more drives, check it again. If it can hold the initial torque after as few drives and retorques, then I'd feel good about it.

Good plan! Thank you.

[nickthebandit]

This is a very useful tool. I have 2 of them in my tool box, and they have saved quite a bit of damaged threads for me. The tool is well worth the investment. I paid $ $40.00 for my first one, and $ 10.00 for my second one. I am very happy with my purchases.

[flatford8]

If you’re doing the brakes, and have both drums off anyway, don’t forget to lap the tapers on both sides. vanpeltsales.com and thirdgenauto.com are excellent sources for parts…….Mark

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by nickthebandit

This is a very useful tool. I have 2 of them in my tool box, and they have saved quite a bit of damaged threads for me. The tool is well worth the investment. I paid $ $40.00 for my first one, and $ 10.00 for my second one. I am very happy with my purchases.

Nickthebandit, yeah, they're are great to have. The first one I bought it at the swap meet corral at Goodguys in Scottsdale, AZ and it was a BluePoint NOS. Second one, off eBay slightly used.

Originally Posted by flatford8

If you’re doing the brakes, and have both drums off anyway, don’t forget to lap the tapers on both sides. vanpeltsales.com and thirdgenauto.com are excellent sources for parts…….Mark

Flatford8 - Here's a learning moment for me: I don't know what you meant to "lap the tapers". I'm new to this and I couldn't find any reference to lapping the tapers in the shop manual, or Van Pelt's guide. Does it mean to smooth the surface if it's pitted or install metal shims?

Yes! I do Mike from thirdgenauto.com and Vanpeltsales as steady suppliers.

Thanks.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by nickthebandit

This is a very useful tool. I have 2 of them in my tool box, and they have saved quite a bit of damaged threads for me. The tool is well worth the investment. I paid $ $40.00 for my first one, and $ 10.00 for my second one. I am very happy with my purchases.

What size do you use on the axels we have?

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Conrad Rossi

Nickthebandit, yeah, they're are great to have. The first one I bought it at the swap meet corral at Goodguys in Scottsdale, AZ and it was a BluePoint NOS. Second one, off eBay slightly used.



Flatford8 - Here's a learning moment for me: I don't know what you meant to "lap the tapers". I'm new to this and I couldn't find any reference to lapping the tapers in the shop manual, or Van Pelt's guide. Does it mean to smooth the surface if it's pitted or install metal shims?

Yes! I do Mike from thirdgenauto.com and Vanpeltsales as steady suppliers.

Thanks.

With the drums off, remove the axle key and apply grinding compound to the axle tapers, then reinstall the drums with the axle nut just barely loose so you can spin the drum by hand. This is lapping the tapers. Remove and examine your work, you'll see how much more you'll need to lap. Be sure to clean all the compound off, and install the drum dry, no oil or grease whatsoever, and with a new axle key. This lapping operation is especially important to your job due to the compromised axle nut threads.

[SoCalCoupe]

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Best wishes Conrad.


Just went through installing axles, axle nuts and re-torquing. I understand mating the surfaces so as not to ride on the axle key. A tip I got here on Fordbarn was using lapping compound on the hubs and axles prior to final assembly. Tried it and in my opinion that's the trick to get a good tight fit.


The thing that drives me nuts though is the re-torquing and aligning the cotter pin holes simultaneously. Either I get the perfect torque or align the holes but not both. I defaulted to backing off rather than tightening when I get to 200 ft-lbs and the holes don't align. Comments?

[flatford8]

Originally Posted by Conrad Rossi

Nickthebandit, yeah, they're are great to have. The first one I bought it at the swap meet corral at Goodguys in Scottsdale, AZ and it was a BluePoint NOS. Second one, off eBay slightly used.



Flatford8 - Here's a learning moment for me: I don't know what you meant to "lap the tapers". I'm new to this and I couldn't find any reference to lapping the tapers in the shop manual, or Van Pelt's guide. Does it mean to smooth the surface if it's pitted or install metal shims?

Yes! I do Mike from thirdgenauto.com and Vanpeltsales as steady suppliers.

Thanks.

Sorry, stepped away for a bit……yes, what Alan & SoCal said……….Mark

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Conrad Rossi

Hello --

Long time not posting. I ended up buying an axle rethread tool as Bob C recommended and I was able to successfully rethread the axle end. Successfully, without counting I bought two tools. I didn't have my glasses on and didn't notice it missed the diameter I needed.

What size worked for you?

[1952henry]

As for lapping, Oreillys has a package with two different compound tubes, one is 120 grit, one is 220. Start with the 120 grit. Versachem is the brand, $6ish for the package. Nice thing, it is grease-based, so stays put whilst you are lapping.

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by petehoovie

What size worked for you?

Petehoovie - Size is 5/8 20. I could have sworn it was 3/4.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

With the drums off, remove the axle key and apply grinding compound to the axle tapers, then reinstall the drums with the axle nut just barely loose so you can spin the drum by hand. This is lapping the tapers. Remove and examine your work, you'll see how much more you'll need to lap. Be sure to clean all the compound off, and install the drum dry, no oil or grease whatsoever, and with a new axle key. This lapping operation is especially important to your job due to the compromised axle nut threads.

Ford38v8 - Thanks for the detailed explanation. A few questions as this is still new to me:
1. Need to load the hubs with bearings and seas. And surface to lap is what I marked on the picture below
2. Does it matter if the brake shoes are on?
3. Lapping is needed for the front brakes as well

Thank you!

-Conrad

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by SoCalCoupe

Best wishes Conrad.


Just went through installing axles, axle nuts and re-torquing. I understand mating the surfaces so as not to ride on the axle key. A tip I got here on Fordbarn was using lapping compound on the hubs and axles prior to final assembly. Tried it and in my opinion that's the trick to get a good tight fit.


The thing that drives me nuts though is the re-torquing and aligning the cotter pin holes simultaneously. Either I get the perfect torque or align the holes but not both. I defaulted to backing off rather than tightening when I get to 200 ft-lbs and the holes don't align. Comments?

SoCalCoupe - this is good a good tip to know. Thanks!

-Conrad

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by 1952henry

As for lapping, Oreillys has a package with two different compound tubes, one is 120 grit, one is 220. Start with the 120 grit. Versachem is the brand, $6ish for the package. Nice thing, it is grease-based, so stays put whilst you are lapping.

1953henry - Thank you!

-Conrad

[1952henry]

You are welcome. Hoping for good outcome. Going through this right now lapping pinion yoke to pinion on my Marmon Herrington front axle. Going a step further, I have some 320, 600, and 800 grit on the way.

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Conrad Rossi

Ford38v8 - Thanks for the detailed explanation. A few questions as this is still new to me:
1. Need to load the hubs with bearings and seas. And surface to lap is what I marked on the picture below
2. Does it matter if the brake shoes are on?
3. Lapping is needed for the front brakes as well -Conrad

Where you marked, drum to axle, with key removed so drum can turn.
Axle nut on loosely to keep drum from wobbling while you turn by hand.
Brake shoes can be on, but not dragging.
Front brakes lapping? Wrong term: Arcing is what you do to brake shoes.

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Where you marked, drum to axle, with key removed so drum can turn.

Axle nut on loosely to keep drum from wobbling while you turn by hand.

Brake shoes can be on, but not dragging.

Front brakes lapping? Wrong term: Arcing is what you do to brake shoes.

Thanks ... And that's what I'll do!

-Conrad

[koates]

Originally Posted by Conrad Rossi

Petehoovie - Size is 5/8 20. I could have sworn it was 3/4.

Sent from my Pixel 9 Pro XL using Tapatalk

I have just checked two NOS ford axles threads which are spares for my 34 Ford and they are 5/8 x 18 TPI and NOT 5/8 x 20 TPI. Checked with a thread gauge and a Starrett die nut. If you use a 20 TPI die or die nut the existing threads on the axle will be wrecked. Regards, Kevin.

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by koates

I have just checked two NOS ford axles threads which are spares for my 34 Ford and they are 5/8 x 18 TPI and NOT 5/8 x 20 TPI. Checked with a thread gauge and a Starrett die nut. If you use a 20 TPI die or die nut the existing threads on the axle will be wrecked. Regards, Kevin.

Hello Kevin - Thanks for checking to ensure I did it right. Don't have the car near me right now to check the tool used.

Hello All, question, please, can someone confirm the thread for an early 1946 ford rear axle?

Thank you.

-Conrad

[Conrad Rossi]

I was able to check the photo I posted with the tool on the axle. It's 18 tpi and not 20 tpi as I originally posted. Below is the zoomed in photo:

Thanks all for checking my work. Much appreciated.

-Conrad

[Conrad Rossi]

Hello -

Update.

I've had time today so I'm installing new shoes. I had to do the job twice because this early 1946 has the Lockheed wheel cylinders so the long shoe faces forward.

Since it's an original Arizona car all metal parts have almost no rust. Everything gets "preserved" under layers of hardened clay. Cleaning it up and hitting it with protective paint makes it look new.

Now off to the other three wheels, packing the hubs and lapping the axles.

-Conrad

[Newc]

Note: A rg#85 V8 club member had this happen: Top inner edge of key caught his drum. Drum would not come off. So now I round off the top inner edge of the key. Newc

[Conrad Rossi]

Hi NewC - Good call. Your post explains the difference in keys the car has between the old and the new repro keys. Thank you.

Conrad

-Conrad

[Conrad Rossi]

Hello,

Another update.

Completed refurbishing all backing plates, wheel cylinders, installed new shoes, and hardware. The front shoes are arches and I lapped the rear axle ends.

Next, I need to pack in the bearings and races for all four hubs. I have NOS Timken.

When flushing the brake lines, I couldn't get rid of all gunk and ancient brake fluid. The first picture shows a fraction of what it came when leaving the lines filled with brake cleaner several times to remove the goo.

The brake lines have no rust and still decided to replace all brake lines. It's not what I really wanted to do but I didn't want to compromise the wheel cylinders since they are refurbished. And I'm installing a new master cylinder.

The second picture shows one of the refurbished brake assemblies, rear driver's side. The wheel cylinder is the original Lockheed one.

I never did brake lines so it will be an interesting project. Any tips on how to approach making the brake lines would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Conrad

-Conrad

[tubman]

I replaced all of the hardlines on my '51 when I restored it on 1988. I bought a good double flaring tool, a couple of benders, and a roll of standard steel brake line. The hardest part was getting consistently good double flares. I finally got the hang of it, but not after I had to buy a second 25' roll of brake line. Duplicating the bends can be a problem as well. Be careful to preserve as much of the old lines as you can because they can be used as patterns to bend the new line. I didn't and it used up a little more of that second roll. In the end, it worked out well. I still have the car and drive it quite a bit. The only problem I had was about 5 years ago when one of the old clamps I reused came loose. It was an easy fix.

I believe that pre-bent brake line kits are available. I did a quick internet search, and couldn't find any, but I'll bet they are out there. Probably more expensive but a lot easier.

If you want to make your own and are not looking for a concours restoration, forget the steel line and go with the new Cupro/Nickel line (Ni-Copp). It is much easier to work with and it doesn't rust or corrode like steel eventually does. I did the front lines on my '99 F150 about 5 years with it, and didn't screw up a single double-flare.

Good luck with your project.

[1942deluxe]

Conrad, on my 42 and my 46 I used pre bent brake lines from Classic Tube in Lancaster NY. Can't remember what I paid but it wasn't that expensive, and they fit great.

[tubman]

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Originally Posted by 1942deluxe

Conrad, on my 42 and my 46 I used pre bent brake lines from Classic Tube in Lancaster NY. Can't remember what I paid but it wasn't that expensive, and they fit great.

There ya' go. It's a lot easier (and probably better) than making your own from scratch.

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by tubman

There ya' go. It's a lot easier (and probably better) than making your own from scratch.

Tubman - Your post inspired me to learn how to make my own lines. The good thing is now I've the tools to do the fuel lines.

1942deluxe - Thank you. Before I was about to purchase the tools on Amazon, I checked the supplier you recommended and their website doesn't list premade brakes for 1946 Ford's.

Amazon dropped the supplies and tools to hopefully do a good job. If not I'll be ordering a lot more of Ni-Cu alloy tubing.

I spent a little bit more on an Eastwood clone flaring tool as I wanted to minimize any rookie errors on my side. I still have to figure out how to make the bends.






-Conrad

[tubman]

I think you made the right decision. Another addition to your skill set.

[1942deluxe]

Conrad, they do have them. I had to call them, and I think they show them listed as fitting a 41 Ford in their system. I should've mentioned that earlier. Found the invoice. Their P/N is FD1004-OE and in 2022 the complete set was $151.99 plus shipping.

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by 1942deluxe

Conrad, they do have them. I had to call them, and I think they show them listed as fitting a 41 Ford in their system. I should've mentioned that earlier. Found the invoice. Their P/N is FD1004-OE and in 2022 the complete set was $151.99 plus shipping.

1942deluxe - thank you for looking into this. That's a good price for plug-n-play. It's about the same cost of the materials and tools I bought. Definitely, I'll reach out to them if making my own lines doesn't' work. Glad to know there's still a source around. I do mostly my research for parts and purchases after business hours because of my schedule.

-Conrad

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by tubman

I think you made the right decision. Another addition to your skill set.

Tubman, thank you. Let's see as it's one of those things that only the results will tell.

Probably it will take me 10x more than anyone with experience bending and flaring lines.

As a side note, I have an old Motor's copy and always get a kick out of the time it takes me compared to what's published. My time is close to the "double the time on the book and change it to the next unit of measure".

-Conrad

[1942deluxe]

Conrad, I made new fuel lines on both my 42 and 46 with the alloy tubing. Don't think I had to use a bender at all. That alloy tubing is neat stuff. Might want to start with the fuel line to build your confidence! If you can save your old brake lines for a pattern it will help. I never was "flat rate" on the labor times either. Well once I guess when the 42's newly rebuilt engine didn't have oil pressure. I had that out in less than 4 hours and back in running in about the same, but I was flaming mad!

[tubman]

I'm sure it will turn out well. If I could do it in steel, anyone could do it in "Ni-Copp", it's that much easier to work with.

[Conrad Rossi]

Hello, I got a few small updates after two weeks.

Update #1.
I started repacking the front hubs, the first time ever a job of this type. I had a little hiccup as I forgot the front hub requires a special size or bearing race installer, which is especially useful for the outside bearing race. The inside race went in fine with the standard bearing installer. Also, I found out the incorrect inner bearing seals were sent. So I was set not to finish the job as there were no local auto stores that had them in stock.

Disappointed, I went on to install the outside race. It was all good until it was leveled with the hub. The kit I had didn't have a matching bearing fitting.

Geniusly, I considered using a spare bearing race I had as a guide. So far so good until I delegated my brain usage to the hammer for the next step... Yes, "dumb, dumb, dumb" I hammered the second race and ended up installing two bearing races. Disappointed, I had to sacrifice the guide by cutting into it with a grinder to provide expansion. And create two points to work it out in both axis to gracefully remove it with a punch and hammer. Then, I could turn it into a bearing race driver.

Using the bench grinder I removed material so there was no interference with the hub so it wouldn't get installed again. The sharpie ink mark was used as a guide.

Update #2
Today the replacement seals arrived. I packed the inner bearing and installed the seal.
Three more hubs to go! Plus making the brake lines.

I keep you posted.

-Conrad

[Bored&Stroked]

Thanks for all your posts - you do very meticulous work and are obviously a perfectionist! Those are good skills/practices to have when working on these old cars.

Question: I liked that tubing bender you had in the vice (the one with all the wheels). That would make a lot of bends super fast when using Ni-Cop . . . can you tell me where you bought it and the part number? I need to get one of those!

Note: The most important aspect of the job is to practice a few times with the double-flaring tool (on just a couple extra lengths of tubing). It takes a bit of practice to not scar up the tubing ends - so go through the process a few times. Also, there will be situations where you need to put the flares on the ends - BEFORE you put a bend near the end (due to the room it takes for the flaring tool to work). You'll get the hang of it and will find that while it is a bit time-consuming, it is rewarding work!

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Thanks for all your posts - you do very meticulous work and are obviously a perfectionist! Those are good skills/practices to have when working on these old cars.

Question: I liked that tubing bender you had in the vice (the one with all the wheels). That would make a lot of bends super fast when using Ni-Cop . . . can you tell me where you bought it and the part number? I need to get one of those!

Note: The most important aspect of the job is to practice a few times with the double-flaring tool (on just a couple extra lengths of tubing). It takes a bit of practice to not scar up the tubing ends - so go through the process a few times. Also, there will be situations where you need to put the flares on the ends - BEFORE you put a bend near the end (due to the room it takes for the flaring tool to work). You'll get the hang of it and will find that while it is a bit time-consuming, it is rewarding work!

Hi Bored&Stroked - Thank you! It usually saves me time and getting things right the first time, unless I let the ball peen hammer think for me.

I definitely will be making several practice flares before making the lines. I've never done it before either.

Regarding the tool in the picture, it's a tube straightener I bought from Amazon to straighten the brake and fuel lines. Anyhow, here's the link https://a.co/d/gNHoIte.

Aheszeed Tubing Straightener, 3/16 to 1/2 IN Diameters Brake Line Straightener, Tube Straightener and Wire Straightener Fit for Fuel Line, Brake Line, Aluminum Tubing and Copper Tubing https://a.co/d/ix8PoeS

Now off to redo the front passenger hub.



-Conrad

[Bored&Stroked]

Another tip . . . that you only learn the hard way! If you're going to be making a tight bend, then make sure the fitting (that slides over the tube) is positioned near the end (before the bend). Otherwise, you'll soon learn that you cannot slide it through the bend to the end of the tube . . . . there goes another chunk of wasted tubing!

We've all made this mistake - comes with learning the process.

[ford38v8]

Good points all, I can think of only one more: Manicure the tubing ends before the flair, as any rough spots will tend to magnify into cracks.

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Another tip . . . that you only learn the hard way! If you're going to be making a tight bend, then make sure the fitting (that slides over the tube) is positioned near the end (before the bend). Otherwise, you'll soon learn that you cannot slide it through the bend to the end of the tube . . . . there goes another chunk of wasted tubing!

We've all made this mistake - comes with learning the process.

Thank you, Bored&Stroked! Hopefully, I'll be tackling the lines this weekend!

-Conrad

[Conrad Rossi]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Good points all, I can think of only one more: Manicure the tubing ends before the flair, as any rough spots will tend to magnify into cracks.

Ford38v8! Yes! That's what I read it's important to do to achieve a good flare.

BTW, is there a special tool or what's the installation procedure to install the snap ring for the rear bearing hub? I only have two rings with me and I don't want to destroy them or maim myself since the spring force the snap ring has seems to carry considerable force.

Thanks,

-Conrad

[Conrad Rossi]

I answered my own question by installing the snap ring in the wrong order -before the seal.

Thanks Vanpelt Sales for posting the schematics!



-Conrad

[Conrad Rossi]

Another update:

Small progress but at least some progress. Front hubs and rear drums are ready to be installed. Also, I made a couple of bubble flare tests. The seventh was the charm.

This weekend I'll be working on the lines and replacing the master cylinder and refurbished pedal assembly.

-Conrad

[Conrad Rossi]

I got some tinkering time and installed the front hubs and rear drums. Took the time to remove, clean, lube, and install the parking cable. Installed need boots as well since the old ones were petrified.

Took a first stab at redoing the front brake lines. I'm happy with the results of the first attempt.

Also, lurked for a while on some of my fellow '46 recent posts. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Here are some pictures while I complete the rest of the lines.


-Conrad