Sad day

[ArtimusGordon]

The day I lost my Model A!

[wmws]

Sad day is right. Do you know what happened?

[ArtimusGordon]

Not sure but probably a short in the dash wiring. I had just parked, turned off the gas, and visited with a friend for a about 15 minutes and when I left him s house it was all ready in flames.

[wmws]

Sorry for your loss. I hope it is not a total loss. A good lesson for the rest of us to use an inline fuse. Some people don't like them but I sure use one.

[Big hammer]

Sad day for you for sure. At lease you weren't in the car.

[larrys40]

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Sorry as well for your loss . As said above it highlights the need for good electrical connections and an inline fuse at the starter. Otherwise wire becomes the fuse and gets hot and burns. A little weeping at the gas gauge and poor connections at the dash and electrical junction box are prime culprits. Hopefully it's repairable and recoverable for you
Larry

[Don S.]

So sorry about your coupe. It was a very nice looking car! They always say it could have been worse, and if you think about it, I guess it could have. I know I'm really attached to my little Ford. I would probably be beside myself if anything happened to it. I hope it all works out for you in the end.

[ArtimusGordon]

I'm 80 years old and don't think that I want to do another restoration. It's in Haggertys hands now and I think they might total the car. I have a replacement Lined up just waiting for the insurance company.

[Floats]

Hi Art,
So sad to hear about your loss.

[Tiny]

Ouch that's terrible. I'm glad you weren't in it though

[Tom Wesenberg]

Sorry to see that happened to you, and at 80 years old I wouldn't feel like doing another either. Glad you have one lined up, and this one looks very repairable for someone.

I'm still amazed at the number of antique cars that have been lost to fires in the past few years.

[160B]

Sad to see a nice car go up in flames.

I had a claim with Hagerty and was very pleased with how well they handled the claim and in a very short time.

[Jeff/Illinois]

That hurts. Good thing you have good insurance keep us posted how your claim gets handled. Hagerty is a good outfit.

On a similar note, we were hit by tornadoes Monday nite they were all around. Illinois alone had 28 twisters. Luckily they tracked north and south of me.

Not so lucky was a local guy that the news showed, that had restored a '69 Camaro for his grandson it was totalled. Same twister sped NE and hit a farmer's place that had an early 50's Dodge truck, antique firetruck, and what looked to be about a '38 Plymouth Coupe, all toast when a cement silo was blown over and mashed the garage he had them stored in.

Radio today spoke of an incident in Florida where some guy took his '59 Vette to WalMart, parked way out in the parking lot, and an elderly lady smashed the Vette with her Ford Taurus actually driving up over the Vette. She hit the gas pedal instead of the brake. Vette totaled Taurus was really not hurt bad.

[frank mcdaniels]

Be thankful it wasn't in the garage. Our club had a guy in it that restored a coupe just like yours that was totally burned in a fire. You could never tell it when he got it done. Frank

[quickchange]

Very sad to hear , too many fires lately when most can be avoided for $20, Put a master switch mounted in the floor boards easily , GET IN THE HABIT, FUEL OFF, IGNITION OFF , MAINS OFF , then exit the vehicle, simple , it won,t burn, unlikely to get stolen , How many of you run master switches & use them , I know I do, even with new wiring, ??

[Y-Blockhead]

Sorry for loss Art.

I agree with the installation of electrical protection. If you don't like the looks of the fuse on the starter, put it somewhere else.

I have a 30a circuit breaker on the main and a 20a circuit breaker on the lighting circuit.

I also have fuses on my turn signals, fog lights, spotlight and electrical socket (for charging my Garmin and cell phone). All are hidden.

Whatever you do, don't use a fusible link...

[jfreddie]

What's bad about a fusible link?

[WTSHNN]

I'm curious as to why your suspicions are pointing you towards the short behind the dash?

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by ArtimusGordon

Not sure but probably a short in the dash wiring. I had just parked, turned off the gas, and visited with a friend for a about 15 minutes and when I left him s house it was all ready in flames.

Hm, dramatic pic , indeed ! Car was hopefully insured ?

This is BOTH a depressing situation and a learning moment. A $25. master cut off switch may have saved heartache.

Some still looks to be salvageable to get another coupe ride, eh ?

Note:
One of the first things that I notice when having OLD original Model As, was that the decades old cloth covered wiring is dangerous and has been the cause of untold numbers of such disasters as yours....and much worse ! Lesson learned was to asap, put in new/modern wiring. Even I could accomplished this with the commonly available Model A wiring looms made with new wire tech.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by jfreddie

What's bad about a fusible link?

From Ron Francis catalog.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by WTSHNN

I'm curious as to why your suspicions are pointing you towards the short behind the dash?

Hey John,
Good question.
IMO and experience, Art is most likely correct in his assumption as to the starting place for the spark/grounding situation....it takes a spark/grounding.
That's where that FORD connector box connections are located and where the most probable / likely place for fault elect to ground occurs. IMO, this HOT ALL THE TIME(BOMB) ford simplistic device was responsible for many fire disasters than most others combined !
I tried and hopefully succeeded in trying to super insolate that box from causing faulty ground. The way all the wires are crammed into that small space, then add in add on wiring (for some), throw in vibrations from shaking body and maybe cloth covered wiring (original/'restored'). Add to all this, the location/juxtaposition to gas tank leaks/fumes..voila/boom !

Any and all safety devices and equipment add-ons are prudent, IMO, to mitigate such tragic results as fire. You car, do what you want, eh.

Knowing what I know of that connection box, if I were an insurance company, I wouldn't insure a car with such a known hazard as that connection box design. I know let the pissing contest begin

[Brent]

Don't let it go to scrap. There are plenty of parts there that could save others. Heck, I'd be interested in buying it from the ins. co. to save my own project.

[Floats]

Post #15,
I have installed master switches in all my old cars listed below.

[wk2w]

I replaced my ammeter last week. When I pulled back the instrument panel to access the wiring, I found that both terminals were extremely loose. It was surprising that the car still ran. This could have resulted in a similar problem.
When the new ammeter was installed, I took precautions (using wire sleeves) to ensure that if the terminals did come loose, the wires would be insulated well enough that they would not ground out. I also added new split lock washers and made sure everything was very tight.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by wk2w

I replaced my ammeter last week. When I pulled back the instrument panel to access the wiring, I found that both terminals were extremely loose. It was surprising that the car still ran. This could have resulted in a similar problem.
When the new ammeter was installed, I took precautions (using wire sleeves) to ensure that if the terminals did come loose, the wires would be insulated well enough that they would not ground out. I also added new split lock washers and made sure everything was very tight.

could be when you pulled it back you loosened wires inside the junction box.

[JohnB15632]

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HELP!! So that I do not have this problem, How are where should I install the Cut off switch? Please?

Thanks!!

[31 Model A]

Very heartbreaking and hard to see those photos.

Larry put a fuse in the first winter he had Sarah, I see now why he did it.

Very sorry for your loss.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by JohnB15632

HELP!! So that I do not have this problem, How are where should I install the Cut off switch? Please?

Thanks!!

On your battery ground wire. My handle comes up thru the floor in front of the seat so I can get to it quickly if needed.

[JohnB15632]

HELP Where and how do I install a Master Cut Off Switch? Help Please? I do not want this to happen to me.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Brent

Don't let it go to scrap. There are plenty of parts there that could save others. Heck, I'd be interested in buying it from the ins. co. to save my own project.

It goes to auction after its taken.... go buy it from there....

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by JohnB15632

HELP Where and how do I install a Master Cut Off Switch? Help Please? I do not want this to happen to me.

Do a search its been gone over here 1001 times,, maybe even 1002
From whats the best switch to the best mounting locations, along with which batt wire to install it in..

[Mitch//pa]

I also am very sorry to see this and thank god nobody was injured... hopefully you have enough agreed value to cover all the money you had into her Incld all your labor..
Collect your money and move on as fire damaged cars are the worse to get involved in..
I had a couple customers leave the key on which in turn fries the dash wires along with o/heating or blowing out the coil. I always mention here when i read about someone leaving the key on and the points were closed to also pull back the dash and ck the wiring...

It's definitely. A learning experience for many here so thanks for posting this... you may have saved someone's life, house or car....
Here is the link to a thread from when the key was left on, if others missed it
https://fordbarn.com/forum/showthread...ht=caught+fire

[Art Newland]

I've had to deal with a couple of totals in my day, I was given first opportunity to purchase the cars before the insurance company took them.

[Mitch//pa]

Usually you can buy it back for 10% of the totalled value which comes with a salvage tittle ...

[DougVieyra]

Artimus, post #1: I see that you are from Grants Pass - just 3.5 hours away from me, here in Eureka !

Aritmus, I know that the Rogue River Model A club is nearby, BUT - whenever you want to get to the Victorian Seaport of Eureka and touch and fondle Giant Redwood trees and rugged coastlines of the Pacific Ocean, be advised that I have two Model A's here for you to also touch, fondle, and ride in.

And I also offer FREE housing and vittles while you are in the area !

[mshmodela]

Oh my God that's just horrible.. I hate and fear fires.. So sorry for your loss.

[Synchro909]

With all of my cars, I keep the salvage in the event of a total loss. That is the norm over here. The insurance company doesn't get to lay a hand on the car after it is assessed. Nearly 20 years ago, I lost my workshop, cars and nearly my wife in a fire. The insurance payout was prompt and the cars stayed right where they were. I couldn't bring myself to re restore what I had already done once so I sold off the wrecks. In this case, the photos show a car well worthy of restoration again.
Hope the owner get satisfaction with the insurance company and he ends up with another car soon - WITH A CUTOUT SWITCH!
I don't understand the American system of cars having a title but I do know one is required before a car can be sent out of the country. I'd put my hand up for the salvage if it could be done.

[wrndln]

I wonder how many people remember Artimus Gordon in the TV series Wild Wild West. Ross Martin played Artimus Gordon and was pretty cool. How did you come to use ArtimusGordon as your user ID? Sorry about your coupe.
Rusty Nelson

[ArtimusGordon]

I always watched the show and my first name is Art so it was a natural thing to do.

[holdover]

I have 4 Model As a '29 coupe, '29 CCPU, a 30 AA SB and a '31 AA LB, all have both the safety fuse and a battery shut off switch. I park them in a garage with six other vehicles and I do everything I can so that a electrical fire will not happen. If there was an easy way to disconnect the battery on the modern vehicles I'd do that also. All the wires on the As have been replaced with reproductions, after I noticed that the 85 yr old wires were not in the best of shape. I have insurance on everything to cover value, but that value does not include the many 100s of hours that I have put into them, and at my age I don't have the energy to do them again. They are all drivers and not fine point judging vehicles so exact originality is not a issue with me(in relation to the safety fuse and shut off switch). I also shut off the fuel valve when I park my As and disconnect the battery via the switch, even if they will be left for only a few minutes. My dad use to say an "ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" This is how I do it, your mileage may vary

[DJ S]

I'm ordering a cut off switch now...

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by holdover

I have 4 Model As a '29 coupe, '29 CCPU, a 30 AA SB and a '31 AA LB, all have both the safety fuse and a battery shut off switch. I park them in a garage with six other vehicles and I do everything I can so that a electrical fire will not happen. If there was an easy way to disconnect the battery on the modern vehicles I'd do that also. All the wires on the As have been replaced with reproductions, after I noticed that the 85 yr old wires were not in the best of shape. I have insurance on everything to cover value, but that value does not include the many 100s of hours that I have put into them, and at my age I don't have the energy to do them again. They are all drivers and not fine point judging vehicles so exact originality is not a issue with me(in relation to the safety fuse and shut off switch). I also shut off the fuel valve when I park my As and disconnect the battery via the switch, even if they will be left for only a few minutes. My dad use to say an "ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure" This is how I do it, your mileage may vary

This explanation is the ONLY way to be as an antique car owner, i.e.-safety minded in all you do , IMO !
Good for you. I only have one 'driver' , but that was put together with parts from everywhere. To me, it is no less valuable than a 500 point car !
First thing after sitting in my model a, is to reach down and turn on cut-off.
First thing that I do before exiting my model a , is to reach down and turn cut-off ....off. There are other benefits, like theft prevention, etc, BUT I've found that if a problem occurred while driving....like a fuel smell/leak....OFF goes the cut-off switch , then investigation of problem.
Has worked for decades and will never fail if used correctly.

[henry's 31]

Very sorry about your great loss. I hope you can re-restore it. My best to you. Thank you for sharing so we can share with other Model A's.

[al's28/33]

Hope you can recover some $ from your loss.

[1929]

I think many should take a hard look at this and check all their wires, maybe even once a year, replace or fix what might need repair. This is like a warning commercial for us all.

[Y-Blockhead]

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Originally Posted by 1929

I think many should take a hard look at this and check all their wires, maybe even once a year, replace or fix what might need repair. This is like a warning commercial for us all.

Someone posted these pictures a while back. These "wires" are on the back of an ammeter.

[Henry's Lady's Man]

So sorry, Artimus! How many times have I gone out to the garage and seen my dash light on? I leave the dash light in the on position to remind me that I forgot to turn off the cut-off under my seat. A cluttered mind? grabbing the groceries? Gotta prioritize the cut-off! Buy it back. Sell parts or restore that beautiful car.

[3.6rs]

Originally Posted by quickchange

Very sad to hear , too many fires lately when most can be avoided for $20, Put a master switch mounted in the floor boards easily , GET IN THE HABIT, FUEL OFF, IGNITION OFF , MAINS OFF , then exit the vehicle, simple , it won,t burn, unlikely to get stolen , How many of you run master switches & use them , I know I do, even with new wiring, ??

I agree. I have a master switch, and I use it EVERY time I leave the car.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Someone posted these pictures a while back. These "wires" are on the back of an ammeter.

I put a link to that thread on #32...

[mshmodela]

My guess is the fuel tank vapors had an ignition source (assuming no fuel leaks)... Makes me want to put insulation behind my ampmeter... Dang problem is the tank is ground... The meter should be totally electrically insulated from the tank... I wonder if getting shrick wrap might be snapped in the fuel tank cavity where the meter fits?

Also, for those who carry a fire extinguisher, buy a new one.. Mine's too old so grabbing a new one.

[SeaSlugs]

Originally Posted by mshmodela

My guess is the fuel tank vapors had an ignition source (assuming no fuel leaks)... Makes me want to put insulation behind my ampmeter... Dang problem is the tank is ground... The meter should be totally electrically insulated from the tank... I wonder if getting shrick wrap might be snapped in the fuel tank cavity where the meter fits?

Also, for those who carry a fire extinguisher, buy a new one.. Mine's too old so grabbing a new one.

that and every connection should be soldered - no chance of corrosion build up in the crimp and start creating resistance (aka heat)

I do agree with the others that say the junction box is entirely too small haha. If it was an inch bigger that would be a world of difference.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

Also a word about some early repro junction boxes, the live post (After a new harness we used a rubber gasket to mount the box) screws could back out and come in contact with the firewall, that happened in my brothers coupe and it burned the ignition wires out, it was raining at the time and water ran down the firewall on the engine side. We were on a trip and were lucky because when we got home some of the wires had no insulation left on them, just lucky I guess.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I've never had an insurance claim. Will they try to determine the origin and cause of the fire?
I'm curious to know what might have started this. Was there any fuel hose instead of all steal?

[wallster]

Sorry, bummer.

[ArtimusGordon]

Here is the latest, I took the salvage price and will sell parts to my club members at a reasonable price. I did have a fire extinguisher on the shelf, behind the seat but because I only was going to be a few minutes I FAILED to turn off the battery switch on the floor by the seat. As I always do, I turned off the gas valve. Normally I ALWAYS turn off the gas and battery switch.

[Tom Wesenberg]

It would be nice if it was restored, rather than parted.

[Cory Moffat]

That is so sad. Memories gone.

[Synchro909]

Like I said, I'd buy it lock, stock and barrel as is.

[wk2w]

No. There's no way the nuts could have come loose a full turn or more just by moving the panel.

[SkimmerBob]

Bummer! I'm glad no one got hurt.

[vern hodgson]

I am curious, what exactly was the source of all the flame? Were they fed by a ruptured fuel line, fuel filter or what? And did the gas tank explode or rupture during the fire?

[Brendan]

Originally Posted by JohnB15632

HELP Where and how do I install a Master Cut Off Switch? Help Please? I do not want this to happen to me.

i got one in my seat riser in my Roadster, you cant see it

[Brendan]

sorry for your loss, that sucks, i hate to see a old car destroyed. i am glad you did not get heart
,.

[ArtimusGordon]

Originally Posted by vern hodgson

I am curious, what exactly was the source of all the flame? Were they fed by a ruptured fuel line, fuel filter or what? And did the gas tank explode or rupture during the fire?

Don't have a clue to how it started but when it got going the gasline and valve let go and the 3/4 tank of gas flowed out like a jet engine. Super hot and melted ALL the glass. The top of the gas tank bulged up and the gas cap stayed on and did not explode.

[vern hodgson]

Originally Posted by ArtimusGordon

Don't have a clue to how it started but when it got going the gasline and valve let go and the 3/4 tank of gas flowed out like a jet engine. Super hot and melted ALL the glass. The top of the gas tank bulged up and the gas cap stayed on and did not explode.

Thanks. For the info, so the gas valve must be soldered in. Very scary, we tend to get very complacent around something so volatile. Very sorry to see this.