Flathead Timing Gear Failure?

[GAR64]

47 Coupe. 59A. Car ran fine until a no start issue. Would then start intermittently but then, nothing. After checking ignition, coil, fuel etc., have both spark and fuel. Ran compression test on all cylinders. All cylinders are consistent.. 30psi ! Guessing that all rings didn't stick at once and didn't burn all the valves. Could failure of the timing gear cause this and how difficult to replace?? Going to change the oil and look for evidence. I don't have engine build specs but based on all the info I have from previous owner, looks like 59A built to stock specs. Thanks for any helpful input.

[sugarmaker]

Basic idea is that if you have fuel (Double check this please, it has got me a could times),
and you have sparky at the plugs, and you have compression which it soulnd like you have. Then in theroy it should run maybe not well but it should pop!
Next would timing tio get it running right.
You mention coil and spark. Do you have spark at the points? Do you have spark at the plugs? Both of these have stopped me in my starting tracks over the years also.
Fuel, good flow into the carb?? Or the opposite, could the carb be flooding the engine?
I just had one do that on my fork lift. The carb needed cleaned due to dirt in the tank and lines. Had to pull the carb., clean the openings and it started right up.
I dont think you have a timing gear problem. If it was gone you would not have even compression in all cylinders. You have that. You have compression. Check that one off the list. Go back to fuel and sparky and when those are in working order she will fire right up. Your almost there! Let us know.
Regards,
Chris

[sugarmaker]

GAR64,
Didnt we talk several years ago, about a really nice 56 Ford Victoria you had?
Regards,
Chris

[GAR64]

I have not pulled the distributor but I know I have spark at the plugs so I would expect that spark is not the issue. Carb seems fine and even swapped it out to check. Isn't 30 psi too low for it to run?

[GAR64]

Yes Sugarmaker. I sold the 56 to a guy in New Zealand.

[JWL]

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Consistent spark at the plugs would indicate the timing gear is rotating.

[marko39]

If only 30 psi something is very wrong. Check it with a different gauge to verify your readings. I once pulled the heads on an engine due to no compression only to realize gauge crapped out. If readings are right it probably is why engine won't start.

[GAR64]

If it was one cylinder, I would think rings, valve etc. I don’t know what the compression was when it was running fine but all cylinders had the same problem all at once?

[marko39]

A cylinder leak down test will tell you what's wrong.

[Ken hash]

I’m asking if your distributor could have moved and now it’s out of time. You would still have spark. Good luck.

[36coupe]

Squirt some light oil in all the cylinders and check the compression again if you didn’t do it when you did the initial check.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Ken hash

I’m asking if your distributor could have moved and now it’s out of time. You would still have spark. Good luck.

On any of the pre 1949 - 1953 flatheads, the distributor used an offset T-Slot to drive it - so it really couldn't be installed completely out of time. This is unless you attempted to force it in at 180 degrees out and muscled the bolts in. When you do this and turn the engine over, it can break the distributor casting.

Being completely out of time is normally not a situation . . . unless the cam gear disintegrated - then both the valves and the ignition will be totally off.

[tubman]

A little more information on the cam gear is in order. If it's a recently purchased foreign made unit, they have a habit of disintegrating in 7-8000 miles. An old fiber timing gear may also be suspect, which is why I now only use aluminum timing gears.

Also, the 30 lbs compression on all of the cylinders raises doubt in my mind; did you check all of them, or just a few?

[richard crow]

if you have 30 lbs at all the cyls the camshaft gear is at fault

[Brian]

If using early, press on cam gear and camshaft, [which is doubtful as you say it's a 59A], if the camgear slips on the camshaft, you'll still have spark,[late] but little compression...

[Tinker]

The timing gear and plate won't enter the oil pan. So no worries on stuff in the oil.


Sounds like you are on the right path though.

[GAR64]

I appreciate all the input. I was told by someone else that the design of the distributor kind of rules out the timing being way off. I have only owned the car for a year. It ran well. Smooth. no smoke. I believe the engine was done many tears ago and I do not have details such as miles or specific parts. The car was restored to stock specs based on discussion with previous owner. After driving one day, I had trouble restarting. It did start a few more times with difficulty but then nothing. Hard to believe all cylinders developed an issue at once. Was thinking maybe a timing gear although some say I would not be getting spark, which I am. When you mention cam gear are you referring to the timing gear or something else? I would think a fiber gear would just fall apart if damaged but an aluminum one may skip a tooth or semi fail. Again, I guess the cylinders may all be bad but doesn't seem likely. Not sure what to try next.Want to do all I can before digging into the engine. Thanks for the help. I enjoy this site.

greg

[Kube]

Originally Posted by GAR64

I appreciate all the input. I was told by someone else that the design of the distributor kind of rules out the timing being way off. I have only owned the car for a year. It ran well. Smooth. no smoke. I believe the engine was done many tears ago and I do not have details such as miles or specific parts. The car was restored to stock specs based on discussion with previous owner. After driving one day, I had trouble restarting. It did start a few more times with difficulty but then nothing. Hard to believe all cylinders developed an issue at once. Was thinking maybe a timing gear although some say I would not be getting spark, which I am. When you mention cam gear are you referring to the timing gear or something else? I would think a fiber gear would just fall apart if damaged but an aluminum one may skip a tooth or semi fail. Again, I guess the cylinders may all be bad but doesn't seem likely. Not sure what to try next.Want to do all I can before digging into the engine. Thanks for the help. I enjoy this site.

greg

Greg, I believe at this point, if it were me, I'd remove the timing gear cover and look at the camshaft gear. The reproduction gears are total poopy and are known to break.
Gosh, if for no other reason than peace of mind, inspect that gear.

Removing that front cover is actually much easier than you might be imagining.

[GAR64]

Kube, guess that will be my next move. How difficult is it to replace the gear?

[Kube]

Originally Posted by GAR64

Kube, guess that will be my next move. How difficult is it to replace the gear?

If it's a press on gear, it can be a bit troublesome. If it's a bolt on gear, it's a simple task.