British Model A ?

[Tudortomnz]

Gents, would any of our international enthusiasts know about English built 1931's?
Att. John Charlton ; Juggler; Jukejoint Johnny etc?
I would like to know if the Deluxe Tudor , late '31, was built in Britain & available domestically or as export LHD to Europe??
Also, were British built Model A bodies stamped at assembly [ letters & numbers] at Trafford Park or Dagenham?
I have viewed an unusual 55B here, not the usual Canadian model [ & not a recent import] & trying to establish origins.
Cheers

[Juggler]

Hi Tom

I've got Dear Old Dad, John Charlton, hovering over my shoulder, so this is a joint effort.

As far as we know, the Deluxe Tudor was not available in the UK. Not 100% sure so we'll check the English body and upholstery parts books we've got here. LHD cars were built in Manchester for export to Europe (even with the 14.9 engine) but again don't think any were 'Deluxe'.

If they were produced for the UK market they would not have been fitted with cowl lights as cowl lights illegal here as they did not mark the full width of the vehicle. We had fender mounted side lights. This meant that the headlights had no script on top, as they were not two light.

Some frames were stamped, some not. No bodies were stamped. Very few Model A's were built at Dagenham, and of those most were trucks (of which production continued into 1936).

The things to look for in an English built vehicle are

Body rivets were round headed not waffle. Easy to see in the 3 firewall rivets each side where the cowl bolts to the frame.

As above, the headlights have no script. Also the rivets at the bottom are stainless capped with little stainless buttons (we are looking at a mid to late '31 car here) and the mounting ball is stainless. Stainless spring on the headlamp door latch. The radshell centre hood retainer is stainless. The moulding which bolts to the gas tank under the windshield, the cages for the captive nuts are stainless.

The radiator badge is 29 style and has the reveal round the edge.

The bakelite electrical fittings are brown not black - junction box, distributor cap etc.

There are other differences but that should be enough to identify.

All the best

John and Andrew (mostly John)

[Steve Plucker]

John and Andrew,

Most interesting on the English Model A's...Will you be doing a book soon on the subject? Sounds like you have assembled a lot of information on the subject!

Pluck

[johnbuckley]

1931 was a truly disastrous year for Ford in Britain, with the expense of setting up and moving to Dagenham and the recession...According to Wilkins and Hill, American Business Abroad;Ford on Six Continents. "... Dagenham output for 1931 was all commercial vehicles except for five passenger cars" Yes, repeat, FIVE passenger cars

[Tudortomnz]

Thank you John & Andrew & all. Very informative on the British A''s.
With the car I saw, engine had been changed many years ago to a Canadian block.
I did not expect to see lamps on the front 'guards as I believe that was only done for Britain & not for all export cars. Cars here did not require them & cowl lamps were used.
I was viewing it jammed up against a garage wall with other machinery around it, so difficult to inspect everything. I will go over my photos ; I do not wish to put any on here as the owners would not want their unusual Model A on the 'net.
One good thing, they still have the original sales receipt & ownership papers which here in the old days, stayed with the car & recorded date of first rego., engine number & all owners . I just have to hope they are prepared to find this paperwork & inform me.
Regards
Tom.

[Juggler]

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Originally Posted by Steve Plucker

John and Andrew,

Most interesting on the English Model A's...Will you be doing a book soon on the subject? Sounds like you have assembled a lot of information on the subject!

Pluck

Hey Pluck. Yes somebody should do it...

Have checked the production figures for 1931 on modelahouse.com which records no Deluxe Tudors produced in Dagenham (the figures on that site must include Trafford Park production up to October (?) 1931), but 65 built in Buenos Aires, 10 in Cologne, 774 in Copenhagen and 18 in Yokohama.

http://www.modelahouse.com/tech/production31.html

[Juggler]

Originally Posted by Tudortomnz

Thank you John & Andrew & all. Very informative on the British A''s.
With the car I saw, engine had been changed many years ago to a Canadian block.
I did not expect to see lamps on the front 'guards as I believe that was only done for Britain & not for all export cars. Cars here did not require them & cowl lamps were used.
I was viewing it jammed up against a garage wall with other machinery around it, so difficult to inspect everything. I will go over my photos ; I do not wish to put any on here as the owners would not want their unusual Model A on the 'net.
One good thing, they still have the original sales receipt & ownership papers which here in the old days, stayed with the car & recorded date of first rego., engine number & all owners . I just have to hope they are prepared to find this paperwork & inform me.
Regards
Tom.

Hi again Tom - you were typing at the same time as me

British and Irish cars had the fender lamps as standard, as did those from Argentina and Uruguay. As far as we know, no other countries had fender lamps from the factory, but they were available as a dealer installed accessory most everywhere else.

Cheers

Juggs

[1932tub]

I had a 32 4 cyl English Ford with fender lamps ( NZ new )

[johnbuckley]

Originally Posted by 1932tub

I had a 32 4 cyl English Ford with fender lamps ( NZ new )

Intriguing ...Do you know if it came out of Dagenham or Canada?

[1932tub]

I would think it came from Dagenham, I wouldn't think they would have been sent to Canada and then to NZ.

[Tudortomnz]

Ford Dagenham started to send some small shipments to NZ from 1933 ; this accounts for the odd English small bore B4 with the English Briggs Tudor & Fordor bodies. British industry had been lobbying the NZ Govt. for preferential tariffs which frightened Ford Canada & their NZ distributor, Colonial Motor Co. Eventually it was worked out by doing full assembly [CKD] at the new Ford Plant built by the Canadians at Seaview. Of course the British exporters got a better deal plus our cheap primary products.
Along with English B4's, a small number of heavy & light Commercials came in , also quite a few hundred Model Y's [ Baby Ford] & a few of the unusual Model 62 V8 60 which had the '37 type front & same body that was reused as the horrible Ford Pilot just after the War.
From the mid Thirties, all the small British Fords became available & were assembled alongside the Canadian V8's at Seaview Plant.

BTW ; The unusual 55B I was asking about is not English. Dagenham did not produce any Deluxe Tudors & the car in question has no European features.

[Hoogah]

Originally Posted by Tudortomnz

. . . had the '37 type front & same body that was reused as the horrible Ford Pilot just after the War. . . .

Horrible! I grew up thinking they were the coolest. Always wanted one. Never got one - am I lucky?