The Ford Barn

T&A Flathead · 02-10-2015, 09:00 PM

Was there a such thing as a bolt on replacement transmission that is an automatic-ish trans for a model A.
The reason for the question is: a 31 coupe was just handed down to an old friend of mine from his great uncle. The car is an unrestored nice original. The great uncle (who has owned it for well over 50yrs) claims it has some rare automatic drive transmission. He didn't install it.
Was there an old conversion, or an after market trans available long ago?
I will find out more this weekend when I get to look at the car. I've never heard of such thing.

Thanks

Joe K · 02-10-2015, 09:05 PM

Those Wonderful Unauthorized Accessories book has a couple of pages about some sort of "automatic shifting/clutching" adaptation to the Model A three speed.

I don't have the book in front of me so I can't scan the pages.

Joe K

T&A Flathead · 02-10-2015, 09:09 PM

Wow , thanks for the reply. I need to find one of those books.

tbirdtbird · 02-10-2015, 11:10 PM

the suppliers have them such as Bratton and Snyder
a very interesting book
they made all manner of crazy aftermarket stuff for both the T and the A

J Franklin · 02-11-2015, 12:07 AM

Most likely it is a free wheeling modification if it was done years ago.

Tom Wesenberg · 02-11-2015, 12:43 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by J Franklin

Most likely it is a free wheeling modification if it was done years ago.

I also recall seeing a centrifugal clutch in that yellow book.

tbirdtbird · 02-11-2015, 01:19 AM

OK i just looked again.
In the front there are several pages of free-wheeling units and automatic vacuum operated shifters linked to use of the clutch, self operating clutches, etc. and all kinds of crazy stuff. Also saw an automatic spark advance gizmo by Phillips.

I wish you could still order this stuff. Just to see what in the dickens the engineers came up with.

I saw an elaborate automatic clutch/shift deal (vacuum operated) on a 40s Hudson once. An incredibly complicated contraption, and they were said to have all failed very early on. Most owners had removed them, but this guy left it on for show (it was not functional)

This kind of automotive history is fascinating. The thought of an 'automatic' transmission was there they just did not know how to pull it off. Just as GM introduced the first synchronizers on the '38 LaSalle, companion car to the Cadillac. They wanted to try it out on that car and not tarnish the Cadillac if it failed. Later GM was the first to develop a working automatic tranny in the late '40s in the form that we know it. Interesting that the Model T had a planetary tranny (which forms the basis of a modern automatic tranny). If only Henry had put some solenoids on there to operate the bands instead of the driver using his feet.....he could have made the claim of the first automatic tranny.
A major stimulus to all these efforts was to make the cars easier for women to drive, and thus buy

BTW a free-wheeling unit allows you to shift the car without using the clutch, as long as your speed is below 20 mph. Of course, you still have to feather the stock service clutch to get off the line from a dead stop. Free-wheelers can do this because they incorporate a so-called 'sprag' clutch, which is an automatic process based on one-way rollers

C26Pinelake · 02-11-2015, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

OK i just looked again.
In the front there are several pages of free-wheeling units and automatic vacuum operated shifters linked to use of the clutch, self operating clutches, etc. and all kinds of crazy stuff. Also saw an automatic spark advance gizmo by Phillips.

I wish you could still order this stuff. Just to see what in the dickens the engineers came up with.

I saw an elaborate automatic clutch/shift deal (vacuum operated) on a 40s Hudson once. An incredibly complicated contraption, and they were said to have all failed very early on. Most owners had removed them, but this guy left in on for show (it was not functional)

This kind of automotive history is fascinating. The thought of an 'automatic' transmission was there they just did not know how to pull it off. Just as GM introduced the first synchronizers on the '38 LaSalle, companion car to the Cadillac. They wanted to try it out on that car and not tarnish the Cadillac if it failed. Later GM was the first to develop a working automatic tranny in the late '40s in the form that we know it. Interesting that the Model T had a planetary tranny (which forms the basis of a modern automatic tranny). If only Henry had put some solenoids on there to operate the bands instead of the driver using his feet.....he could have made the claim of the first automatic tranny.
A major stimulus to all these efforts was to make the cars easier for women to drive, and thus buy

BTW a free-wheeling unit allows you to shift the car without using the clutch, as long as your speed is below 20 mph. Of course, you still have to feather the stock service clutch to get off the line from a dead stop. Free-wheelers can do this because they incorporate a so-called 'sprag' clutch, which is an automatic process based on one-way rollers

Very interesting and informative, thanks ! Wayne

T&A Flathead · 02-11-2015, 07:10 AM

Thanks guys for all the info. I will craw all over it when I get a chance to see it. My old friend doesn't really want the car so I am trying to align myself up to have the first shot at it.

1931 flamingo · 02-11-2015, 07:06 PM

After you "inspect" it, please come back and give us the "skinny" on what it actually is.
Paul in CT

crock · 02-12-2015, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe K

Those Wonderful Unauthorized Accessories book has a couple of pages about some sort of "automatic shifting/clutching" adaptation to the Model A three speed.

I don't have the book in front of me so I can't scan the pages.

Joe K

there was a self-operating clutch available. you simply press a dash control to place either system in use. sold by the automatic drive & transmission co. in glouchester city, nj ( of course back in the day)

T&A Flathead · 02-13-2015, 03:49 PM

Thanks for all the info guys.
Well, my chances of acquiring the coupe are fading fast. That's ok, it's ending up staying in the family and closer to its home.

The family is going to let me come see it and help them get aquanted with it.

As soon as I get a chance to investigate the transmission, I will let you know what I find.

02-10-2015, 09:00 PM	#1
T&A Flathead Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Pewaukee, WI (Milwaukee) Posts: 50	Transmission question Was there a such thing as a bolt on replacement transmission that is an automatic-ish trans for a model A. The reason for the question is: a 31 coupe was just handed down to an old friend of mine from his great uncle. The car is an unrestored nice original. The great uncle (who has owned it for well over 50yrs) claims it has some rare automatic drive transmission. He didn't install it. Was there an old conversion, or an after market trans available long ago? I will find out more this weekend when I get to look at the car. I've never heard of such thing. Thanks

02-10-2015, 09:05 PM	#2
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Transmission question Those Wonderful Unauthorized Accessories book has a couple of pages about some sort of "automatic shifting/clutching" adaptation to the Model A three speed. I don't have the book in front of me so I can't scan the pages. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

02-10-2015, 09:09 PM	#3
T&A Flathead Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Pewaukee, WI (Milwaukee) Posts: 50	Re: Transmission question Wow , thanks for the reply. I need to find one of those books.

02-10-2015, 11:10 PM	#4
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Transmission question the suppliers have them such as Bratton and Snyder a very interesting book they made all manner of crazy aftermarket stuff for both the T and the A __________________ '31 180A

02-11-2015, 12:07 AM	#5
J Franklin Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oregon Posts: 5,963	Re: Transmission question Most likely it is a free wheeling modification if it was done years ago.

02-11-2015, 01:19 AM	#7
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Transmission question OK i just looked again. In the front there are several pages of free-wheeling units and automatic vacuum operated shifters linked to use of the clutch, self operating clutches, etc. and all kinds of crazy stuff. Also saw an automatic spark advance gizmo by Phillips. I wish you could still order this stuff. Just to see what in the dickens the engineers came up with. I saw an elaborate automatic clutch/shift deal (vacuum operated) on a 40s Hudson once. An incredibly complicated contraption, and they were said to have all failed very early on. Most owners had removed them, but this guy left it on for show (it was not functional) This kind of automotive history is fascinating. The thought of an 'automatic' transmission was there they just did not know how to pull it off. Just as GM introduced the first synchronizers on the '38 LaSalle, companion car to the Cadillac. They wanted to try it out on that car and not tarnish the Cadillac if it failed. Later GM was the first to develop a working automatic tranny in the late '40s in the form that we know it. Interesting that the Model T had a planetary tranny (which forms the basis of a modern automatic tranny). If only Henry had put some solenoids on there to operate the bands instead of the driver using his feet.....he could have made the claim of the first automatic tranny. A major stimulus to all these efforts was to make the cars easier for women to drive, and thus buy BTW a free-wheeling unit allows you to shift the car without using the clutch, as long as your speed is below 20 mph. Of course, you still have to feather the stock service clutch to get off the line from a dead stop. Free-wheelers can do this because they incorporate a so-called 'sprag' clutch, which is an automatic process based on one-way rollers __________________ '31 180A Last edited by tbirdtbird; 02-11-2015 at 11:28 AM.

02-11-2015, 07:10 AM	#9
T&A Flathead Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Pewaukee, WI (Milwaukee) Posts: 50	Re: Transmission question Thanks guys for all the info. I will craw all over it when I get a chance to see it. My old friend doesn't really want the car so I am trying to align myself up to have the first shot at it.

02-11-2015, 07:06 PM	#10
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Transmission question After you "inspect" it, please come back and give us the "skinny" on what it actually is. Paul in CT

02-13-2015, 03:49 PM	#12
T&A Flathead Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Pewaukee, WI (Milwaukee) Posts: 50	Re: Transmission question Thanks for all the info guys. Well, my chances of acquiring the coupe are fading fast. That's ok, it's ending up staying in the family and closer to its home. The family is going to let me come see it and help them get aquanted with it. As soon as I get a chance to investigate the transmission, I will let you know what I find.