Having Fun With it?

[David R.]

Is anyone else having this much fun? I just got this old ‘30 AA in August and have barely gotten started. Not a lot more than a semi rolling chassis, but I aim to build a truck around it.
I really am enjoying working on it. I honestly feel a little guilty sometimes having this much fun by myself.
Found and rebuilt a steering gear.
Rebuilt original starter.
Engine has 75 psi on all four!
Getting ready to pull pan and check bearings.
Got 2 new tires for front.
Getting ready to rebuild front axle.
A little overwhelmed at times when I see how much needs done: but having a blast.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

75lbs - maybe a high compression head, that is great compression results.


Re-torque the head, especially if the engine has sat unused for an extended period of time.


Welcome to the Hobby.

[DannL]

Never a dull moment. There's always something that requires fixing. There's an endless supply of things to troubleshoot and repair. It's funny cuz my job is fixing really complicated stuff, so working on the car is quite relaxing.

[David R.]

I will check torque on head. I want to have a look bottom side before I try starting.
I am in same boat as you Dan. I work on more complicated stuff during the day too. I worked briefly a long time ago as a fleet mechanic for a local bakery. Old 1 ton GMCs, not much different than the AA.

[Mike Peters]

David: You have a rare light bar on your truck. Early 30 version with built in license plate mounts. These didn't hold up well, so Ford went back to the tubular style later in 1930. Also, take great care when inflating those front tires for the first time. Be absolutely certain the lock rings are seated all the way into the rim groove. Then chain the new tire through the rim openings to insure if the lock ring does let go while inflating, it won't kill you, or take your arm off holding the air chuck on the tire valve. I only go to 20# of air initially until everything looks OK. Don't mean to sound like the Christmas Grinch, but I saw those bare rims in your photo.

[Don Turley]

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Originally Posted by Mike Peters

David: You have a rare light bar on your truck. Early 30 version with built in license plate mounts. These didn't hold up well, so Ford went back to the tubular style later in 1930. .

Per the "Guidelines", page 18-2, that headlamp bar is for May through September 1930.

[Brian SATX]

And it looks like you have a Deluxe truck Radiator shell. I see no peak at the center, just flat.

[gad62]

I also have a blast working on my AA....and they are fun to drive too!!

[Jacksonlll]

You think this is fun. Just wait until you start driving it. Oh, the smiles you will cause. Have fun. Hope there is a club near you.

[Humperhill]

Enjoy the challenges of rebuilding your Model A. Sometimes I wonder why we enjoy the headaches we create for ourselves trying to solve problems and make things work or fit.

[1930artdeco]

Welcome tot he club and enjoy. They are a blast to work on and drive. And I envy you having a AA.


Mike

[Farrell In Vancouver]

X2 on the safety while inflating split rims. I built a remote fill hose giving me about six feet of separation from the wheel while filling the tubes, and about eight wraps of cable around/through the rim.
I also make sure no one else is around the wheel while I am filling it.

Looks like a cool truck to build, but as said previously driving them is the real fun!
Good luck on your build.

[David R.]

Thanks for the cautions. I have watched the tire shop safety training videos on split rims. Had a shop offer to give me a cage but have no room to store it. I wrapped wheels with cable and used remote chuck and gauge. New front tires are on front.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

If starting the truck for first time after sitting a long time, a few tips.


With plugs out, put some marvel mystery oil in the cylinders, let sit overnight, make sure to cover plug holes to prevent anything from dropping in, then hand crank it over a few times over a couple of days. Clean/gap plugs, install plugs.


When adding fresh motor oil, 1st remove distributor, pour 1 quart oil through the distributor hole and then fill to full on the dipstick. This will prime the valve galley so the motor bearings do not have to wait for the oil pump to fill the oil galley to lube the motor lower end bearings.


Lube the distributor oil cup, fill the cup till it will not take more. Filling to full insures oil migrates up into the upper dist. shaft bushing.


Backflush radiator and motor thoroughly. If you have sediment/rust etc, hopefully this will avoid it getting into and plugging up your radiator.


Lube the generator, some have one oil point, some gens have 2 points. Only 1-2 drops oil per oil point is needed.


Grease the water pump - only a partial pump of grease is needed on the motor side of the water pump. More than that and you can possibly get grease in the coolant, which when bad enough will clog your radiator.


Clean up battery connections, including where battery strap attaches to the frame, clean tighten all ignition circuit connects, clean/gap points. Clean/tighten starter post/wiring connections and connections on starter switch mounted onto of the top of the starter.


Once started, take it easy, make sure your brakes work before getting on the road.


Check that the ammeter is working.


Once running awhile, turn off. Check that ammeter shows 0. Check oil condition to see if there is water/dirt/rust in it. Drain and refill all other fluids (steering, differential, trans) - you can do this before starting the 1st time, up to you. Check coolant condition for rust debris/etc.


Somewhere along all this do a full grease job on all grease zerks.

[David R.]

Thanks Closed Cab. I hadn’t heard the tip about pouring the oil in the distributor hole before. Makes sense. I have a lot of work to do. Water pump was stuck. I got it free but it is real stiff. Plan on pulling radiator and water pump off in morning and start on them. Was thinking of pulling pans to check bearings and clean everything up.
Front axle is bent, but I have a nice one. RR spring main leaf broken but I have a spare.

[Ranchero50]

I am having an absolute blast working on my '29 speedster. Building the aluminum body is way more fun that fighting the rust devil. And I can build the body to fit me.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

If the drain oil looks bad, or if some sludge drains any, and if you stick your pinky finger through the drain hole and feel sludge in the bottom of the pan, definitely drop the pan and clean out the bottom end and the oil pump filter screen.


If you have not worked on an A before, be aware that the oil pan holds up the oil pump via a spring on the bottom of the oil pump. The oil pump will fall out when you drop the pan unless you hold it up via a threaded hole in the side of the block.


There is a hole in the side of the block that you take out a threaded NPT (pipe) plug, and insert a special NPT bolt/tool, do not use a standard or Metric bolt, it will strip the hole threads and possible wreck the block.


If sludge is found, also remove the valve access cover; clean out the valve galley sludge, hand crank the motor and see if valves are operating properly since they can freeze/sometimes stick. Also make sure the small holes in the bottom/back of the valve galley are clean/not blocked. These passages gravity feed oil to the lower end Babbit/Insert bearings.


Actually since the main part of cooling on an A is thermo siphon with water pump mainly as an aid for low speeds (or is it high speeds, can never keep this straight), for getting it up and running you can start/run it some without a working water pump and generator. You'll probably have to charge the battery up after you are done with the gen disconnected.

[burner31]

People ask me when I'm going to finish my car, my response is always..."hopefully never".
Like you...it's just to much fun, and look at all the colorful words I'm using and making up as I go.

[Juggler]

If you don't have the special bolt/tool to hold the pump up, use a cable tie.

Once you've got 3 or 4 pan bolts started and the pump is supported, snip the cable tie and remove

[john charlton]

The bonus in using this system is that you need not disturb the factory fitted plug . The pictures are just to show how the cable tie holds the pump up when the engine is in the car . In practise the pump drops a little when the cable tie holds it but only around 1/16" so the pump remains keyed to the oil pump drive .If you have rotated the engine with the pump out get a mirror to check the alignment of the drive . It is an easy one man job hold the pump up with one hand and have the cable tie through on bolt hole already and the rest as the pics . I have seen many engines with a nasty bolt sticking out of the block if they fall out you know what happens next !!!

John in sunny Suffolk County England .

[Juggler]

[David R.]

I pulled the truck out yesterday and pressure washed some of the grime off. Cleaned up front axle parts from the good spare axle. New bushings and some brake hardware is on the way from Snyders. I have read Les Andrews book and the Ford manuals. I have never had my hands on an A but am learning. They are a study in rugged simplicity. Can’t wait to drive it. (I can’t figure out how to add another photo- upload of files failed)

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Forgot to add, 4 of the pan bolt holes are not blind. Seal them with some Permatex ultra black on the bolt threads to prevent oil leaks. Also I prefer to dab a little grease on the rope seal after the seal is in the pan/before installing pan to give the rope a little extra lube to prevent any possible burning from the crank. If you search here on FB there should be other tips/procedures on installing a pan gasket including making it easier to remove if you turn the wheels fully one way.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Do not use the Les Andrew torque spec on the pan bolts. 20 lbs is way too much and will squish a cork gasket, use common sense, or 4-5 lbs is enough. Read his book carefully, if you disagree ask here 1st, there are a few errors in the book.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

If installing a pan on a motor that is in teh vehicle, these are very handy.
https://www.brattons.com/oil-pan-sna...sset-of-4.html


Here is the oil pump npt tool if interested
https://www.brattons.com/oil-pump-holder-tool.html

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

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If the oil drains out good, and there’s no sludge in there, I wouldn’t pull the pan. I would start it and then if you hear any noise down there then you can do it. You’re not going to hurt the babbit if it’s knocking a little bit. It’s a lot of work adjusting bearings with the engine in place.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

If the oil drains out good, and there’s no sludge in there, I wouldn’t pull the pan. I would start it and then if you hear any noise down there then you can do it. You’re not going to hurt the babbit if it’s knocking a little bit. It’s a lot of work adjusting bearings with the engine in place.

Depends on your abilities/personality/time and money available, and condition of the A.


My truck was probably worst case. 50 years in storage in out buildings. Took the common advice I got, said to get it running and see what goes wrong and then fix.


Wish I had have someone completely go through it, last 6 years have been dealing with issues as they crop up.


Was told to just keep running new oil to clean out the sludge - so much sludge was in it that it ended up blocking the oil screen, radiator and block partially plugged up with rust/etc. and had an undersized 2 row radiator and kept overheating above 25 mph, water pump bearing went bad/froze, distributor bushings bad, generator went bad - bearings, etc., etc.. Bad head gasket, head rusted to block outside-between the block/head- to some studs. Some incorrect head studs - Latest was cracked rod cap causing a knock that had been cracked previous to our owning it, cap had been over torqued, had motor rebuilt because the cap cause major wear issue in that cylinder. the list goes on.


So you can be thorough and know the condition of the vehicle and be somewhat confident it is reliable. Or you can fix things as they crop up. If symptoms appear, investigate/identify/decide if it needs attention. I recommend you don't procrastinate without knowing the cause.

[David R.]

Flushed radiator and block today. Lots of rodent debris but surprisingly little rust. Radiator has a small leak. Started to work on distributor. Had to jamb nut the locking screw to get it out of the head. Distributor lifts straight up out of head, right? I pried gently but it hasn’t budged yet. Penetrating oil liberally applied.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Correct, once the nut is loosened and the screw is loose, the dist. comes straight up/out. Sometimes when it has sat for a very long time the distributer rusts to the head, and sometimes the distributor shaft/shaft cavity/cavity will rust together.

If you are not careful, it is possible to wreck/crack the metal distributor housing. The distributor design has a keyed 2 piece shaft. Part of the shaft comes out with the dist. the other part stays in the motor. The 2 shafts are keyed so they can only be put in the correct way. However there were aftermarket distributors that were a one piece shaft, no 2 piece.

Here is puller/tool, it threads into the dist. shaft cam screw hole, to pull the dist. via the dist. shaft.
https://www.brattons.com/distributor-puller.html

Here is a previous post/string with tips/hints
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...tributor+stuck

[whirnot]

Yep, also enjoying the ride with my 30 CCPU.
Was supposed to be just a driver, but the deeper I got.........

[David R.]

The puller would be easy enough to fabricate. How do you get the cam screw out? It turns but doesn’t come out.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Have not heard of that before.


When you turn the screw does cam and shaft also turn? If no screw is stripped.


If yes - is the distributor all the way down/seated on the head? Then it is possible top port of the shaft is not sitting down far enough to key into the bottom part of the dist. shaft.


It is also possible that this part which is pined and fits on the distributer, and fits into the head hole has a missing or broken pin.
https://modelastore.com/electrical/d...roduct_id=4223


When the cam and the shaft rotates in a good motor, the entire motor works - points cam, dist. shaft, valve cam, timing gear, crank gear, crank, rods, pistons. All is mechanically connected.


Assuming the cam screw turns easily and is not stripped, would not think it would be inside the motor, so hopefully it is one of the above.


To get it out and the points cam is turning, you will probably have to use a vice grips or lock jaw pliers on the cam to hold it still. If you do this you will most likely have to replace the cam, and the washer between on the cam screw and the cam. Issue doing this is soon as the cam screw starts loosening the cam moves independently on the dist shaft. Timing on an A is not performed by rotating the dist like on more modern cars, but by positioning the dist cam properly and tightening cam screw.


I you can't get the screw out, hopefully the methods in the post string work.

[David R.]

Cam and screw turns. I am thinking distributor may not be seated all the way down on block.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Updated after originally posted.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by 30 Closed Cab PU

Updated after originally posted.

The back of the distributor base has flange material sticking out the back. This piece has dimple/hole that fits over a corresponding "bump" on the head. This is what indexes the distributor to the head mechanically.


This actually is a nice feature. If you have a spare distributor and have gapped and timed the points on this motor, take it out, keep it as a spare. Any time you need the spare dist, you can just swap it in and should not have to gap or time it.

[David R.]

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

If the oil drains out good, and there’s no sludge in there, I wouldn’t pull the pan. I would start it and then if you hear any noise down there then you can do it. You’re not going to hurt the babbit if it’s knocking a little bit. It’s a lot of work adjusting bearings with the engine in place.

Pulled plug on oil pan and nothing came out. Uh oh. Probed in there and a bad batch of molasses eventually rolled out. Going down to pull pan off now.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by David R.

Pulled plug on oil pan and nothing came out. Uh oh. Probed in there and a bad batch of molasses eventually rolled out. Going down to pull pan off now.

Yep, not good. You should do a thorough job of cleaning the lower end, including the oil pump to clean it and its oil screen.


As long as it is off, as you planned check/adjust bearings. Check for wear and damage on the crank and Babbitt bearings


Also definitely pull the access cover and clean out as mentioned above.


This is why we shudder when we see U-Tube videos of people resuscitating As, put some water in it, fresh fuel, clean plugs, points and start it.


Did you figure out your distributor issue yet?

[David R.]

I took all internals out of distributor. If I understand correctly it is not seated fully I can see a good 1/4” or so of locator pin on cylinder head. Still won’t budge though. Tapped around on it and applied another penetrant baptism.
Bottom side looks decent initially; other than a little gunky. Still not as bad as I’ve seen some modern engines. So far worst thing I see is crank pulley heavily grooved at seal and cracked. Do I buy one or two piece? Radiator is couming off and going out for repairs anyway. Not sure what to make of this engine. Flywheel housing, oil pan starter etc. all painted red. I see Ford color under the red on fly wheel housing. Engine block and head had silver paint? 2nd overhaul?

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Before going much further, even though it is a pain, sounds like this motor may be in poor shape, might want to do a compression test on it soon, Hand crank it 1st to make sure engine is free. See below about the ratchet nut if you have problems keeping the hand crank seated in the ratchet nut.


Compression Test can be done without damage with your starter as long as the engine is free and the dist. shaft turns in the head/block . If bad readings pull the head and see what it looks like in the upper end, Also be prepared to replace the head gasket.. See if the cylinder walls are scored, how much it is over bored (usually the pistons are stamped how much over bore they are), shape of the valves/valve seats, see if the block/head is cracked.


Original engine was a darker green, that includes, all the things you mentioned above except for the oil pan (black) was a darker green.


Pulley is up to you, some prefer the one piece, some prefer the 2 piece. Less possible issues with the one piece, however the 2 piece allows you to take the pulley on/off without pulling the radiator. Before removing the pulley you may want to inspect the ratchet nut that holds teh pulley on, some times they are very worn, and it is difficult to keep the had crank seated in it when hand cranking the motor.


A trick to getting the ratchet nut freed up/off is to put a closed end wrench on it and jam teh wrench handle against teh frame, then bump the starter, works every time.
You need a special wrench or a socket ratchet so you can get on the nut, socket has to be deep well to get past the ratchet, and the wrench has to reach into the recessed area of the center of the pulley. Venders sell a special wrench, or you can make your own by heating up a longer wrench and bending it.


Interesting/unique color combination.


Hope this is not discouraging, there is a saying about A's, especially on barn finds and As that have sat for a long time "there is usually a reason(s) why they have been parked.




So how long and where did this A sit?

[30 Closed Cab PU]

---

[David R.]

Thanks for the responses. I appreciate the insight. I won’t be discouraged. I have wanted one of these since I was about 8 years old, and I really am having a blast with it. I bought the truck sight unseen (cheap), and fully expected the worst. It came from an estate sale and had sat in a barn for the last four or five years. I have very little history before that. Someone had started to build a huckster body on it and I have some of that material stored for now. I had no steering assembly, so first job was locating steering gear and rebuilding it. Pulled starter to get steering gear installed and rebuilt starter while it was on bench. (My theory is only do it once.)
I have done a compression test and was surprised to find a consistent 75 psi on all four cylinders!
I finally coaxed distributor out and it will need rebuilt. What’s your thoughts on stock verses modern points?
Oil pump looks good, a little wear in upper bushing.
Andrews says the baffle tray prys out of oil pan. Seems pretty tightly wedged.
I have a local guy who can re pour and line bore bearings if need be. I will check bearings next. Should I check them all? Which is likely most worn?

[dumb person]

Originally Posted by David R.

I finally coaxed distributor out and it will need rebuilt. What’s your thoughts on stock verses modern points?

I have a local guy who can re pour and line bore bearings if need be. I will check bearings next. Should I check them all? Which is likely most worn?

Stock points. The 'modern' ones aren't actually all that modern, and it's now easier to get the stock ones. (which most of the time, are better).

As for the bearings, i understand the center main is likely to wear the most.

[john charlton]

Stand the pan up in a suitable container and wait for as much gloop that will drain .Put the pan in a large garbage bag and drop it from shoulder height onto a hard surface (not concrete ) When you drop it make sure it is upside down and horizontal .The tray will pop out if it does not you might have to help gravity a bit . Also clean out the valve chest making sure no debris gets down in the 3 main bearing feed holes you can easy see them one at each end and one in the middle .

John in cold clear morning Suffolk County England .

[David R.]

Here is oil pump screen. Glad I resisted urge to try and start it.

[henry's 31]

That looks great, great job!

[David R.]

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Thanks John, you’re a genius. Baffle popped right out when I dropped oil pan. Pulled valve cover off this afternoon. Yuck! Sure hope some oil was finding its way through the muck to the rear main. Distributor was barely in block. Index hole full of rust. Torqued head studs. #12 was a little loose. Lots of clean up to do and check bearings next.
Still having fun!

[30 Closed Cab PU]

If your baffle is ever really stubborn other ways - 2x4 across the top, large C clamp on top of teh 2x4 and through the baffle hole. Baseball bat through the baffle hole and pry.

[john charlton]

To refit the tray engage the side with oilpump hole edge into the female slots .The tray will then sit at an angle .Get a suitable wooden drift and give it a smart bop midway at the raised edge with hammer or better still a mallet . It should just snap back in .Make sure you get it in the right place fore and aft When seated give it a tug just to check it is secure .

John in Suffolk County England .

[David R.]

Thanks John. I’m sure the clearances are pretty close in there and I’ll bet it wouldn’t be pretty for things to go banging round in there!
Mercy is there lots of clean up to do on this thing. I wore out scraping crud this evening.

[30 Closed Cab PU]

Originally Posted by David R.

Thanks John. I’m sure the clearances are pretty close in there and I’ll bet it wouldn’t be pretty for things to go banging round in there!
Mercy is there lots of clean up to do on this thing. I wore out scraping crud this evening.

Just keep you eye on the prize - increasing reliability, knowing you are doing things the correct way, not causing damage/issues by being thorough, reduced breakdowns, having confidence you know what shape the truck is in, and increased comprehension of how it works and is put together.

[David R.]

Yes, Elmer (I named it after the name I found scratched on steering wheel) and I are getting aquatinted. I wish I had a little more of it’s history. This old truck has definitely been worked. I certainly could have picked an easier project, but I am enjoying this one.

[Drive Shaft Dave]

Looks like the spring on the bottom the oil pump is broken.

[David R.]

Originally Posted by Drive Shaft Dave

Looks like the spring on the bottom the oil pump is broken.

The spring is broken. A new one is on the way along with new gaskets and bushings; and parts to rebuild distributor. Baffle is cleaned up and working on pan. Has a dent to push out.