The Ford Barn

firefirefire90 · 05-09-2010, 07:25 PM

okay.. hotwiring it wont work.. we're attaching both leads that go to the ignition switch together while running a fresh battery to the cable leads.. any tips on hot wiring?

well hot wiring was a bust so we put the battery leads to the starter and it turned the engine over, but it did not turn over the fan. The fan just sort of hung out and is really stiff. I am guessing I am going to have to take the head off and see what I have to work with?

1930artdeco · 05-09-2010, 08:33 PM

When I had my mustang it was rolling project, I parked next to a beautiful Mach 1 and got more looks and comments than it did. Trust me, just get out there and drive her and you will get more looks and comments than you know what to do with. Plus, she is a blast to drive!

Mike

Roadster62 · 05-09-2010, 08:42 PM

Take care not to do any damage to the dash panel! If you have the original ignition cable hot wiring the car will not be an easy task without removing the cable. This was an early theft proof device Ford installed in all Model A's. Great car, have fun with it. Bob

Quote:

Originally Posted by firefirefire90

haha we decided that was our option, and that's what we're doing!!!

Marco Tahtaras · 05-09-2010, 08:42 PM

Nice car, slow down just a little. The fan only turns by the fan belt and the bet may just be too stiff. For the moment just remove the belt but loosening the generator pivot bolt and pushing the generator against the block. I suspect the water pump will turn by hand and may need to be lubed. DO NOT be in a hurry to pull the head!

The ignition switch is a replacement type so removing the four screws holding the instrument panel in place and tilting it back will give you access to the two wires which the switch connects to close the circuit. There is no anti-theft circuit in replacement switches.

Marco Tahtaras · 05-09-2010, 08:49 PM

BTW, my best guess is the car was built around April 1930. The instrument panel is an accessory replacement, "aristocrat" I think they were called. I don't know if it's old or a later copy. I'm also betting the original colors of the car were Chicle Drab and Copra Drab on the body. Nice toy!

firefirefire90 · 05-09-2010, 08:53 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marco Tahtaras

Nice car, slow down just a little. The fan only turns by the fan belt and the bet may just be too stiff. For the moment just remove the belt but loosening the generator pivot bolt and pushing the generator against the block. I suspect the water pump will turn by hand and may need to be lubed. DO NOT be in a hurry to pull the head!

The ignition switch is a replacement type so removing the four screws holding the instrument panel in place and tilting it back will give you access to the two wires which the switch connects to close the circuit. There is no anti-theft circuit in replacement switches.

Hey thank you both! I read up on the anti-theft device and we took off the dash. We're making sure not to damage anything. I also figured out this car is a 1930! I think we'll have to replace the switch regardless. I dont have the key to switch it on so there we go. Okay, well that's a possibility. The crank is moving around with the starter and is moving the belt. The belt is in turn moving but it looks like what is an Alternator/generator is all seized up. We can move the fan by hand, but it is very stiff and the belt wont move it either.. Any tips?

firefirefire90 · 05-09-2010, 08:55 PM

Oh yeah and basically apparently the car used to be red. Is that one of the two colours you stated?

Bruce Adams · 05-09-2010, 09:44 PM

If it is AN ORIGINAL type "Pop Out" ignition, I do not believe you can "Hot Wire" it.
If it is a repop, hot wiring is a piece of cake.

I believe the "Pop Out" original is shorted to ground when the key is out, but hoprfully others will assist on that.

Are you near Pleasanton, CA ?

firefirefire90 · 05-09-2010, 09:58 PM

I have no idea what the difference is, haha. Close as in a 30-45 minute car ride!

Mike V. Florida · 05-09-2010, 10:35 PM

If you have the original pop out swich, the dist will be shorted to ground. do you know if its positic=ve ground or negitive ground, 6 or 12 volts?

You will have to open up the dist. remove the upper plate and place some kind of insulator between the wire from the armored cable and the lower plate.

Then you will need to run a wire from the lower plate to the hot. See hot, ground question above.

pat in Santa Cruz · 05-09-2010, 11:48 PM

Nice 'ol 30 std coupe. I notice the battery is 6 volt, and the cable running to the starter is red, indicating positive. It should be negative to the starter and positive to the ground. It looks like the original ignition/distributor cable is there too. As Marco mentioned, with that dash you should be able to hot wire across the switch. That is indeed a generator. If its frozen up, they sometimes can be loosened on the bench with a little foolin' around. If you cannot get enough slack in the belt to get it off the pulley, you can remove the retainer nut on the generator pulley and remove the pulley, thereby facilitating belt removal. I agree, do not be so eager to pull the head. Wait until its certain its absolutely necessary. As long as that's been on there, the job could turn out very badly. You have an original Zenith carburetor, a replacement four blade fan and no ahooga horn. The speedometer is the early 30 oval type. It looks like it was Chicle and Copra color to me too. If it worked, I attached a photo of a chicle and copra drab 160-C sedan so you can see the colors

firefirefire90 · 05-10-2010, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pat in Santa Cruz

Nice 'ol 30 std coupe. I notice the battery is 6 volt, and the cable running to the starter is red, indicating positive. It should be negative to the starter and positive to the ground. It looks like the original ignition/distributor cable is there too. As Marco mentioned, with that dash you should be able to hot wire across the switch. That is indeed a generator. If its frozen up, they sometimes can be loosened on the bench with a little foolin' around. If you cannot get enough slack in the belt to get it off the pulley, you can remove the retainer nut on the generator pulley and remove the pulley, thereby facilitating belt removal. I agree, do not be so eager to pull the head. Wait until its certain its absolutely necessary. As long as that's been on there, the job could turn out very badly. You have an original Zenith carburetor, a replacement four blade fan and no ahooga horn. The speedometer is the early 30 oval type. It looks like it was Chicle and Copra color to me too. If it worked, I attached a photo of a chicle and copra drab 160-C sedan so you can see the colors

1). Is that really how it goes? Positive goes to ground and negative to the starter? Excuse my ignorance, but how does that work since every engine i've worked on negative goes to ground and positive goes to starter.

2). I'll try that with the generator! It looks like rebuilt ones can be quite expensive so i'll try and get it to work!!

3). Yep, the carb said "ZENITH II." I cleaned out all the gunk and made my own gasket out of gasket material so hopefully it should work well!

4). I see the colour, funny.. this car must have gone about 4 colour changes. At one point, it was the colour you said, then it was lime green, then it must have been red, then it must have been changed to black.

Geo. H · 05-10-2010, 12:28 AM

Looks like you have an early '30 standard coupe. I would guess it originally had a trunk, and has been converted to a rumble seat. The dash panel is aftermarket. All the original dash contained was the ignition switch, an ammeter, the gas gage, and the speedometer. Late '30 cars had a round speedo.

Rowdy · 05-10-2010, 12:31 AM

Posotive ground on an A. All electricity needs is a path from one post to the other. The gen is polorized that way so all should be better when it is switched back right. If you get the gen unseized you may have to flash the field to get it to charge after having it hooked up backwards. Be sure the cable from the neg post to the starter is insulated, but likely that is obvious. Rod

firefirefire90 · 05-10-2010, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rowdy

Posotive ground on an A. All electricity needs is a path from one post to the other. The gen is polorized that way so all should be better when it is switched back right. If you get the gen unseized you may have to flash the field to get it to charge after having it hooked up backwards. Be sure the cable from the neg post to the starter is insulated, but likely that is obvious. Rod

So please let me know if I have this right, because I got the engine to turn over when I attached a positive lead(red) to the starter solenoid and it turned over just fine. Is it just the design of these old cars to have the negative on the starter rather than the positive? What is "flash the field"

once again thank you for being patient, I feel like i'm learning what makes up a car's mechanics all over again!

Mike V. Florida · 05-10-2010, 12:47 AM

"flash the field to get it to charge"

On the top of the generator is a cut out. It keeps the voltage from going back into the generator when the car is off. Take a peice of wire and jumper aross the switch for a second or 2.

Rowdy · 05-10-2010, 12:53 AM

Negative to the starter. I do not know if you will find this link useful, but it should be simular to your endevor. Mike explains flashing the field pretty well in his post, really not much to it. Headed to bed here, good luck. Rod

http://idisk.mac.com/forever4/Public...pingbeauty.htm

pat in Santa Cruz · 05-10-2010, 12:59 AM

originally, neg goes to starter switch. Do you really have a solenoid? that's not original. Someone could have re-wired the car with a solenoid starter. A lot can happen in 80 years. They will run when wired backwards, but they will not run well unless someone wired the coil for neg ground too.

original wiring is as follows:

Neg batt cable to starter post.

yellow wire from starter post to rt (pass) side terminal box post and up to the ammeter neg post.

yellow wire w/blk tracer from ammeter pos post to terminal box left ( drivers) post

short black wire from terminal Left post to coil neg terminal

red wire from coil pos terminal to ign switch " coil " terminal

wire cased in metal cable from switch "dist" terminal to distributor.

yellow /blk wire from generator cutout to terminal box, left (drivers side) terminal.

Mike V. Florida · 05-10-2010, 01:09 AM

Here is how the car was originally wired. It should help you find what is original and what is not.

firefirefire90 · 05-10-2010, 01:50 AM

thank you thank you thank you thank you for this wiring diagram! This is soo necessary!!

By the way, is there any place to buy new wiring harnesses for this car? I read in that link(thank you Rowdy!) that the OP made one for 16 dollars but I would love to buy one ready made if I could already.

05-09-2010, 07:25 PM	#21
firefirefire90 Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Francisco/San Diego, CA Posts: 47	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! okay.. hotwiring it wont work.. we're attaching both leads that go to the ignition switch together while running a fresh battery to the cable leads.. any tips on hot wiring? well hot wiring was a bust so we put the battery leads to the starter and it turned the engine over, but it did not turn over the fan. The fan just sort of hung out and is really stiff. I am guessing I am going to have to take the head off and see what I have to work with? Last edited by firefirefire90; 05-09-2010 at 08:24 PM.

05-09-2010, 08:33 PM	#22
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,550	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! When I had my mustang it was rolling project, I parked next to a beautiful Mach 1 and got more looks and comments than it did. Trust me, just get out there and drive her and you will get more looks and comments than you know what to do with. Plus, she is a blast to drive! Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

05-09-2010, 08:42 PM	#24
Marco Tahtaras Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,099	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! Nice car, slow down just a little. The fan only turns by the fan belt and the bet may just be too stiff. For the moment just remove the belt but loosening the generator pivot bolt and pushing the generator against the block. I suspect the water pump will turn by hand and may need to be lubed. DO NOT be in a hurry to pull the head! The ignition switch is a replacement type so removing the four screws holding the instrument panel in place and tilting it back will give you access to the two wires which the switch connects to close the circuit. There is no anti-theft circuit in replacement switches.

05-09-2010, 08:49 PM	#25
Marco Tahtaras Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,099	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! BTW, my best guess is the car was built around April 1930. The instrument panel is an accessory replacement, "aristocrat" I think they were called. I don't know if it's old or a later copy. I'm also betting the original colors of the car were Chicle Drab and Copra Drab on the body. Nice toy!

05-09-2010, 08:55 PM	#27
firefirefire90 Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Francisco/San Diego, CA Posts: 47	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! Oh yeah and basically apparently the car used to be red. Is that one of the two colours you stated?

05-09-2010, 09:44 PM	#28
Bruce Adams Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northport, NY Posts: 1,597	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! If it is AN ORIGINAL type "Pop Out" ignition, I do not believe you can "Hot Wire" it. If it is a repop, hot wiring is a piece of cake. I believe the "Pop Out" original is shorted to ground when the key is out, but hoprfully others will assist on that. Are you near Pleasanton, CA ?

05-09-2010, 09:58 PM	#29
firefirefire90 Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Francisco/San Diego, CA Posts: 47	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! I have no idea what the difference is, haha. Close as in a 30-45 minute car ride!

05-09-2010, 10:35 PM	#30
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! If you have the original pop out swich, the dist will be shorted to ground. do you know if its positic=ve ground or negitive ground, 6 or 12 volts? You will have to open up the dist. remove the upper plate and place some kind of insulator between the wire from the armored cable and the lower plate. Then you will need to run a wire from the lower plate to the hot. See hot, ground question above. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

05-10-2010, 12:28 AM	#33
Geo. H Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 374	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! Looks like you have an early '30 standard coupe. I would guess it originally had a trunk, and has been converted to a rumble seat. The dash panel is aftermarket. All the original dash contained was the ignition switch, an ammeter, the gas gage, and the speedometer. Late '30 cars had a round speedo.

05-10-2010, 12:31 AM	#34
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! Posotive ground on an A. All electricity needs is a path from one post to the other. The gen is polorized that way so all should be better when it is switched back right. If you get the gen unseized you may have to flash the field to get it to charge after having it hooked up backwards. Be sure the cable from the neg post to the starter is insulated, but likely that is obvious. Rod __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

05-10-2010, 12:47 AM	#36
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! "flash the field to get it to charge" On the top of the generator is a cut out. It keeps the voltage from going back into the generator when the car is off. Take a peice of wire and jumper aross the switch for a second or 2. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

05-10-2010, 12:53 AM	#37
Rowdy BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gothenburg Nebraska Just off I-80 Posts: 4,893	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! Negative to the starter. I do not know if you will find this link useful, but it should be simular to your endevor. Mike explains flashing the field pretty well in his post, really not much to it. Headed to bed here, good luck. Rod http://idisk.mac.com/forever4/Public...pingbeauty.htm __________________ Do the RIGHT thing - Support the H.A.M.B. Alliance!!!!

05-10-2010, 12:59 AM	#38
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! originally, neg goes to starter switch. Do you really have a solenoid? that's not original. Someone could have re-wired the car with a solenoid starter. A lot can happen in 80 years. They will run when wired backwards, but they will not run well unless someone wired the coil for neg ground too. original wiring is as follows: Neg batt cable to starter post. yellow wire from starter post to rt (pass) side terminal box post and up to the ammeter neg post. yellow wire w/blk tracer from ammeter pos post to terminal box left ( drivers) post short black wire from terminal Left post to coil neg terminal red wire from coil pos terminal to ign switch " coil " terminal wire cased in metal cable from switch "dist" terminal to distributor. yellow /blk wire from generator cutout to terminal box, left (drivers side) terminal.

05-10-2010, 01:09 AM	#39
Mike V. Florida Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South Florida Posts: 14,054	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! Here is how the car was originally wired. It should help you find what is original and what is not. __________________ What's right about America is that although we have a mess of problems, we have great capacity - intellect and resources - to do some thing about them. - Henry Ford II

05-10-2010, 01:50 AM	#40
firefirefire90 Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: San Francisco/San Diego, CA Posts: 47	Re: Hello all, new to the forum! thank you thank you thank you thank you for this wiring diagram! This is soo necessary!! By the way, is there any place to buy new wiring harnesses for this car? I read in that link(thank you Rowdy!) that the OP made one for 16 dollars but I would love to buy one ready made if I could already.