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Old 11-23-2020, 11:25 PM   #1
marc silva
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Default Flywheel housing mounting

Can someone explain to me how when you have 2 bolts at the flywheel housing on each side and a bouncy spring mount in the front that you can not expect it to crack the flywheel housing after a period of time...however long that is. Seems to me that a single bolt on each side of the housing wold allow (flex or movement) and not stress the housing to the point of causing a crack. I have thought about either loosening the bolts or removing one all together. Any opinions? Thanks, Marc
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Old 11-23-2020, 11:36 PM   #2
Ruth
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

The rear mounts have rubber insulators between the mount and frame and somewhat flexible but I agree it is a 'different' set up. I guess it has worked for ~90 years tho.

For your piece of mind instead of using just one bolt in your mounts you could install a Float-a-motor kit that mounts the engine on rubber 'biscuits'.
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Old 11-24-2020, 12:08 AM   #3
marc silva
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

I have thought about that but my car has all original components. The float a motors seem to me that it will allow the motor to flop around a bit plus it is not what it came with. It’s just that the geometry / design would tell you that you can’t hard mount at the rear with a moveable up and down at the front and expect it to move up and down some without stressing the rear. Yes it’s rubber mounted but iti is a pivotal movement on the rear mount that causes cracking. To me if you removed the front spring mount and bolted it in solid it woud stop the cracking. In my opinion the spring in the front doesn’t make that much of a difference with regards to vibration.
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:43 AM   #4
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

In the first Model As, the front of the engine was bolted directly to the front cross member - no movement if you ignore the flex of the chassis.
You ask why don't they crack - they do.
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:20 AM   #5
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

When I bought my 31 pickup I did notice that the front axle was bent a little bit on the drivers side. And there was a dent in the front fender. Somebody had hit something. During disassembly I found out why this truck was parked back then. The flywheel housing was broken and there was a large chunk missing in the area of the starter. The wishbone was shoved back on an angle from the drivers side and the ball socket took the majority of the impact. Goes to show that the flywheel housing does more than hold the engine in place.
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:23 AM   #6
BRENT in 10-uh-C
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marc silva View Post
Can someone explain to me how when you have 2 bolts at the flywheel housing on each side and a bouncy spring mount in the front that you can not expect it to crack the flywheel housing after a period of time...however long that is. Seems to me that a single bolt on each side of the housing wold allow (flex or movement) and not stress the housing to the point of causing a crack. I have thought about either loosening the bolts or removing one all together. Any opinions? Thanks, Marc
Quote:
Originally Posted by marc silva View Post
I have thought about that but my car has all original components. The float a motors seem to me that it will allow the motor to flop around a bit plus it is not what it came with. It’s just that the geometry / design would tell you that you can’t hard mount at the rear with a moveable up and down at the front and expect it to move up and down some without stressing the rear. Yes it’s rubber mounted but iti is a pivotal movement on the rear mount that causes cracking. To me if you removed the front spring mount and bolted it in solid it woud stop the cracking. In my opinion the spring in the front doesn’t make that much of a difference with regards to vibration.
Marc, some thoughts based on my experiences. The main reasons why flywheel housings crack is because the rear motor mounts have broken which allowed the engine to flex or move in the frame. IMO, you would not want to loosen the rear support bolts that would cause the housing to prematurely crack or break.

Next, most people do not stop to think about the role the flywheel housing plays. Initially, it is an integral frame component as it makes up 25% of the frame's crossmembers. Arguably, the frame is the weakest component on a Model-A, and compromising one of those strengthening members either with loose fasteners or even F-a-M mounts is foolish IMHO.

The 3rd thing to think about is the rear motor supports and the flywheel housing is the main component that pushes the vehicle. The traction of the rear tires actually transfers motion through the rear axle up the torque tube into the back of the transmission. This energy is transferred thru the transmission case, the clutch housing, and into the flywheel housing which is connected to the frame. The flywheel housing endure a tremendous amount of stress as the vehicle is being driven. One thing that most people do not think about is cast iron flexes some during the driving however those stresses also change the shape of the cast iron over time. That is why you see warped housings.

On a side note, most engine rebuilders (-or even restorers) do not restore the flywheel housing, -and this creates vibration and transmission issues that get blamed elsewhere. When I am re-machining a flywheel housing, it is not uncommon to find one warped over 0.010" - 0.015". We all talk about how a flywheel housing needs to be indicated in when assembling an engine, however have you ever thought about why the factory did not need to indicate these in? It is because they were freshly machined to a tolerance that was parallel from both sides. Re-machine the flywheel housing and you don't need to indicate the housing. Just insert shims that are the same thickness as the compressed gasket and tighten the fasteners. I guess this is a long way around to say it is my opinion that you do not want to remove any fasteners in the frame supports or the housing itself.
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Old 11-24-2020, 08:45 AM   #7
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

Brent's post made me realize just how important the flywheel housing really is. Think about it for a second. It locates both the front and rear axles in place as well as positioning the engine/transmission combo. It's almost like that housing holds the entire drivetrain and suspension together. It is no wonder that they say that the frames will bend in that area.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:02 AM   #8
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

^^^ What Brett said^^^..in theory I might argue the FAM mount, it provides support for the 'cross member' effect but not as much as the box mount. However it does supply better load absorption due to increased flexibility.

Ford made 8 definite revisions to the housing during A production in the attempt to strengthen it.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:42 AM   #9
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

Many flywheel housings are cracked when someone jacks the front of the engine up with both bolts each side still in place . Remove one bolt each side and then the engine can pivot and no damage done . With a "floatamotor" setup installed the drive is through rubber donuts and the flexi front mount in my opinion not good . I would like to see how much ahead and astern movement there is in this case with the car being driven .I dont have a "gopro" camera but if I did I might try it ,just curious .

John in Suffolk County England .
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Old 11-24-2020, 01:48 PM   #10
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

As Brent says, that housing does a lot of things, including getting a heavy hit at every pot-hole you encounter. The front wishbones are anchored to the housing, so transmit the shock to the housing. All the late housing that I've seen have not been cracked, these are identified by reinforcement ribs on the outside, bottom, of the housings. These also were made by the "diamond" foundry.
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Old 11-24-2020, 02:00 PM   #11
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

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Originally Posted by john charlton View Post
Many flywheel housings are cracked when someone jacks the front of the engine up with both bolts each side still in place.
I had this in mind last night when I put a jack stand under the oil pan to remove the timing cover. I took the motor mount bolts out first and then jacked up the front juuuuust enough so the wishbone could move freely. Don't want to get carried away there.
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Old 11-24-2020, 05:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

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Originally Posted by john charlton View Post
Many flywheel housings are cracked when someone jacks the front of the engine up with both bolts each side still in place . Remove one bolt each side and then the engine can pivot and no damage done . With a "floatamotor" setup installed the drive is through rubber donuts and the flexi front mount in my opinion not good . I would like to see how much ahead and astern movement there is in this case with the car being driven .I dont have a "gopro" camera but if I did I might try it ,just curious .

John in Suffolk County England .
I agree,real important that you use the front rubber FAM mount as well,else your clutch will chatter like a dog passing peach pits
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Old 11-24-2020, 06:49 PM   #13
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

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I agree,real important that you use the front rubber FAM mount as well,else your clutch will chatter like a dog passing peach pits
Not true. I have Float a Motor rear mounts and stock front and I have zero clutch chatter.

One thing that will cause clutch chatter when using the Float a Motor is if you don't install or are missing the rubber on the Float a Motor transmission mount.
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Old 11-24-2020, 07:00 PM   #14
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

With just one bolt or loose bolts the bolts and holes would soon wear out.
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Old 11-24-2020, 09:41 PM   #15
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Not true. I have Float a Motor rear mounts and stock front and I have zero clutch chatter.

One thing that will cause clutch chatter when using the Float a Motor is if you don't install or are missing the rubber on the Float a Motor transmission mount.
Okay you want the theory huh, have you even seen the front FAM mount? its a stiff mount rubber biscuit design like the rear's, spread across the front cross member. The stock ford front mount allows up and down travel, the FAM dampens up and down travel. The ability of the front mount allowing up and down travel with the FAM rear mount not being designed to dampen it will cause chatter, especially if you adjust your front mount correctly.
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Old 11-25-2020, 12:50 AM   #16
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

You stated it will chatter, I say mine doesn't, nor does anyone elses I know of. I don't need your "theory". As I said "One thing that will cause clutch chatter when using the Float a Motor is if you don't install or are missing the rubber on the Float a Motor transmission mount" at the crossmember above the u-joint. The rear transmission mount dampens the up and down movement.
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Old 11-25-2020, 11:05 AM   #17
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

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Originally Posted by marc silva View Post
Can someone explain to me how when you have 2 bolts at the flywheel housing on each side and a bouncy spring mount in the front that you can not expect it to crack the flywheel housing after a period of time...however long that is. Seems to me that a single bolt on each side of the housing wold allow (flex or movement) and not stress the housing to the point of causing a crack. I have thought about either loosening the bolts or removing one all together. Any opinions? Thanks, Marc
It sounds like you forgot about the 2 bolts at the top of the flywheel housing.
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Old 11-25-2020, 06:32 PM   #18
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Default Re: Flywheel housing mounting

After Ford decided to use rubber absorber type mounts on front and rear for the 1932 cars, they added engine radius rods to hold the engine steady for the constant push or pull from the torque tube drive. The float-a-motor set up could use that as well but was never set up that way. The 1932 cars also had the K-member to help with frame structure. Ford knew that the Model A system had flaws but they usually lasted a good chunk of miles before problems started showing up. It wasn't perfect but it got the job done. I doubt if Henry would have ever figured so many Model As would still be around 90+ years later.
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