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Old 11-18-2020, 08:48 AM   #1
masipopa
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Default Removing rust from engine

I have a Sport Coupe Model A'30 that drives well, but the engine has paint peeling and rust. I'm thinking to beautify and to repaint the engine, but not sure about the process.

Should I first wire brush it to remove peeling paint and some rust. Do I apply rust dissolver to the engine or it may damage something ?
What kind of engine paint is recommend to use ?

Thanks
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:55 AM   #2
nick c
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

Might try a pneumatic die grinder with a 2" cup shaped wire brush then something like purple cleaner, pressure wash, blow dry with compressed air.
carry on
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Old 11-18-2020, 09:47 AM   #3
Mister Moose
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

Lots of different routes to go here. I think you need to start off realizing that 95% of painting is prep, prep takes time, how good a job do you want given each 10% improvement in the finish quality takes 30%+ more time.

Low end: wire brush what you can reach and hand brush primer and finish coat, minimal masking if brushed.
Middle end: remove easy components to improve access, better rotary power tools, mask and paint
High end: remove starter, manifolds, water pump, radiator, distributor, carb, etc. carefully mask all non painted surfaces, body panels and engine openings. Use a small sandblaster with a fine media carefully. Be meticulous on keeping media out of engine seals, intakes, water jackets, pump impellers, etc. Spray primer and correct green and black finish coats on block and parts. Reassemble.

You can go with an authentic Ford Engine Green custom mixed or in a pint can from the usual vendors, or whatever is closest in a spray can.

Realize that when you take stuff apart you are going to find stuff to fix, rebuild or replace.

I haven't found rust dissolvers to be that great a prep, they are acidic, uneven results, and messy. The only place I use them is flat ground cast iron surfaces on woodworking power tools. Your engine's convoluted surface isn't friendly to hand scrubbing. Any collection of crevices you miss are going to be breeding grounds for paint failure later on. However, this isn't rocket science or brain surgery. Get it shiny, get it clean*, paint it, move on.


*Clean meaning solvent wiped. Even when shiny, metal will have grease and oil residue that will produce "orange peel" in your painted surface. After all that prep, you don't want failed paint. Many choices, talk to an auto body painter for high end, otherwise just wipe it with a good solvent. I like Zylol, it's slower drying and less noxious than lacquer thinner. Be extremely wary of turpentine or imitation mineral spirits. If you go the mineral spirits route, pay the extra for the real deal.

Last edited by Mister Moose; 11-18-2020 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 11-18-2020, 12:43 PM   #4
30 Closed Cab PU
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

Are you pulling the motor out to do this, or trying to do it in the A?

Do not know the answer. How about rags soaked with Rust 911, evaporust, or thermocure? Let the rags lay pressed against the surface. Not acidic and supposed to be safe for all materials, not sure what it would do to paint finish.
also unsure if it can be cleaned/prepped properly for good pain adhesion.

Might want to do a compression/leak down test 1st, maybe do an exhaust gas block test. Now is the time to find out if the head needs to be removed to correct any top end issues (like a weeping head, blown head gasket, etc) before you paint.
https://www.amazon.com/Block-Tester-.../dp/B06VVBSFTF
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Old 11-18-2020, 01:02 PM   #5
masipopa
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

I'm trying to do it in the A. Not planning to pull the motor out or make any major components removal.
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Old 11-18-2020, 01:21 PM   #6
30 Closed Cab PU
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

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Some previous strings that may help


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...painting+motor
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...painting+motor
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...painting+motor
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...painting+motor
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...painting+motor
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Old 11-18-2020, 01:54 PM   #7
alexiskai
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

I'm in the middle of a similar project right now, and although you want to avoid removing major components I gotta say that there are a lot of reasons to consider removing them. The following items can be removed without a huge hassle if you have basic tools:
  • Distributor & plugs
  • Generator/alternator
  • Manifold and carb assembly
  • Upper radiator hose
  • Lower radiator hoses and water pipe
  • Timing cover & inspection cover (optional)
  • Starter (simple to remove but awkwardly heavy)
  • Oil return pipe
  • Valve cover

If you remove these parts, you can:
  • Inspect them and the components under them
  • Clean and paint them off the engine
  • Strip and paint the engine much more easily without so many obstacles in the way

It's more assembly work but I think it would improve the repainting results. For example, you could take the manifold to be bead-blasted and then paint the intake with engine paint and the exhaust with high-temp paint. That's going to be practically impossible to do without removing it if you want durable results.
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Old 11-18-2020, 08:16 PM   #8
Brentwood Bob
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

Another consideration is if you are going to that much trouble, the engine compartment can be detailed to restoration standards with correct fasteners, and finish.
Depends on your goals, and what you have in mind.
I think we are looking at a year, or more of curtailed activities, so you may have a great opportunity to work on this project, or at least thru the winter months.
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Old 11-18-2020, 09:17 PM   #9
Jack Shaft
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

Why paint the outside if you're not sure of the inside.A model a ford engine requires periodic maintenance, including bearing adjustments,vital to a long and economical engine life..
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Old 11-19-2020, 10:42 AM   #10
30 Closed Cab PU
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

I think the reason we are concerned for you is what eh rust might indicate. It would be sad if you went through the effort to do an engine paint job, and it gets ruined quickly due to underlying issues.


Where the rust is located on the head/block it could be you have a weeping or blown head gasket. Also appears the water pump gasket may be leaking/seeping since there is paint damage on the top where the pump is bolted to the block. The rust/mess on the timing cover and engine pans seem to indicate this has been ongoing. The white stuff up by the spark plugs could indicate blown head gasket. If you have wiped off white stuff where the head/block mate, definitely indicates coolant seepage, blown head gasket.


Your A may run with these conditions, but fresh paint would not take long to get ruined. Also you may be getting coolant in the cylinders and oil pan. Not good.
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Old 11-21-2020, 06:21 PM   #11
masipopa
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

30 Closed Cab PU - I don't see any signs of water on the engine so don't know what caused this rust. Maybe the previous owner replaced water pump.

(a) what signs or symptoms of the weeping or blown head gasket
(b) how to determine if I get coolant in the cylinders
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Old 11-21-2020, 08:25 PM   #12
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

It looks to me that it probably had a water pump that was a chronic weeper for a long time to cause the rust.

If you are not willing to remove the engine for a refresh I agree with alexiskia that removing some of the components will be a plus and give you a much more satisfying result. Having your exhaust manifold sand blasted and then coating it with high temp Cast Blast would go a long way in helping the engine look better with a "new" paint job. It looks as if your manifold gasket is on it's last leg anyhow. A new copper clad gasket will look much better than the style that is on it now.
I would suggest using Ospho http://www.ospho.com/directions.htm on the rusted areas after getting things cleaned up and before painting.

Ordering new hardware sets for the timing covers, valve cover, water inlet and head studs is pretty inexpensive and will really help too. On the timing covers you won't need to remove the covers if you don't want to but can remove a couple at a time, clean and repaint and replace with new ones. Be sure to coat the threads of any new bolts that are not blind with Indian Head shellac to keep oil from leaking past the threads.
If you remove the nuts on the head make drain the coolant first. Always a risk of the head gasket leaking after replacing them but... it will look a lot nicer.
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Old 11-21-2020, 09:51 PM   #13
Mister Moose
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

Sorta along this line...

Has anyone painted the visible steel shank of the spark plugs a high temp black or maybe silver? Mine look great when new, but in about a year they rust. I'm ready to try something like that - take them off, wire brush them, mask the porcelain and threads and spray em.
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Old 11-22-2020, 09:57 AM   #14
30 Closed Cab PU
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by masipopa View Post
30 Closed Cab PU - I don't see any signs of water on the engine so don't know what caused this rust. Maybe the previous owner replaced water pump.

(a) what signs or symptoms of the weeping or blown head gasket
(b) how to determine if I get coolant in the cylinders

Ways to detect water in the cylinders (would most likely be from blown head gasket): water in the oil, extended white exhaust (moisture).

Other signs of seepage due to blown head gasket - white puffy powder at the seam where the Head mates to the Block. Damaged paint/possible rust and possible drippage paint strains/marring from where the the head mates the block, Uneven/poor idle.

To diagnose - Compression Test, Leak down Test, and exhaust gas test. The exhaust gas test tests the air in the radiator top tank for exhaust gas, https://www.amazon.com/Block-Tester-.../dp/B06VVBSFTF.

Not a definitive test - take the fan belt off, warm the motor up, take the radiator cap off and see if there are major bubbles in the coolant, check again by having another person, with the emergency brake on/ wheels chucked/ brakes depressed, put it in 3rd gear and slip the clutch to provide motor load and check radiator for bubbles. If you see bubbles possible blown gasket, no bubbles you can still have a blown gasket.

Attached is a picture of my A motor when I 1st started getting it running. Note the white where the motor/head mate and paint marring/damage in same area. This motor had a head gasket blown in 3 places. I also had compression between 35 and 50 lbs. Worst case compression readings on between cylinders should be with in 3- 5 lbs of each other.
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Old 11-22-2020, 08:05 PM   #15
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Default Re: Removing rust from engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Moose View Post
Sorta along this line...

Has anyone painted the visible steel shank of the spark plugs a high temp black or maybe silver? Mine look great when new, but in about a year they rust. I'm ready to try something like that - take them off, wire brush them, mask the porcelain and threads and spray em.
Try to parkerize them. Wire brush, heat with a torch and quench them in used motor oil.

Did a couple today and they look pretty good. Not sure how long it will last but it's easy to do.
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