The Ford Barn

Smitty · 02-08-2017, 12:18 PM

Getting a little uneven wear on my front tires, toe is set correctly, front end is rebuilt and in good shape. Thinking camber may be out in which case I guess would need to send the axle out for adjustment....
Anyone have a good source for such work?
Steve

Mitch//pa · 02-08-2017, 01:12 PM

How do you know your toe in is correct? Put the car on a modern rack and youll know exactly what is up.....

cw253748 · 02-08-2017, 10:41 PM

Hey Mitch//Pa. How do you change your alignment machine to read inches? Mine reads only in degrees.

Chuck Sea/Tac · 02-09-2017, 01:19 AM

Mitch, have you ever set toe by the old way, and then checked the measurerment on your machine? Curious of the " average" accuracy.
Smitty: there's a home method of Triangulation that you can check camber.i think it was in a restorer a couple years ago. Sometimes just looking at the front from 15 feet out, you can see the difference in camber between the two from wheels. I'll see if I can locate that article.

kwisor · 02-09-2017, 05:24 AM

hello smitty
I though my 30 tudor had the same problem I set the tow tires still wore out then I cheaked the frt end and found all the tie rods loose tighten them up no more problem I would do that 1st
kevin

Mitch//pa · 02-09-2017, 05:55 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cw253748

Hey Mitch//Pa. How do you change your alignment machine to read inches? Mine reads only in degrees.

I can go into the alignment machine setup menu and have the toe settings read out in degrees or inches. My hunter machine is the latest one so i am not sure about the earlier models.
I use inches for all my alignments

Mitch//pa · 02-09-2017, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

Mitch, have you ever set toe by the old way, and then checked the measurerment on your machine? Curious of the " average" accuracy.
Smitty: there's a home method of Triangulation that you can check camber.i think it was in a restorer a couple years ago. Sometimes just looking at the front from 15 feet out, you can see the difference in camber between the two from wheels. I'll see if I can locate that article.

Yes i posted about this many times previously, i used a duby gauge and my readings were off when putting it on the rack. Actually was toed out...Many here only have a toe bar or home made stick, tape measure to set toe so i get it and no one reliable local to set it up on a rack, but they are not being set to specs unless one gets real lucky.

Smitty · 02-09-2017, 07:22 AM

Looking at the front end in the car it appears that the camber could be out.. I do have another axle that I could send to someone.....but who?

Kevin in NJ · 02-09-2017, 07:46 AM

You could do it yourself. Some metal scraps and a lathe to make the bars and a simple 10 ton press.

Here is what I did:

Front Axle

Keep in mind camber is a function of wishbone. How is the mount for the wishbone ball, do you have a crappy rubber bushing? Is your engine in the correct position?

Tinbasher · 02-09-2017, 08:14 AM

If your axle in the car is rebuilt, then I would find a heavy truck shop in your area that does alignments. They have the tools to bend the axles to get the angles right.

John Poole

wmws · 02-09-2017, 08:22 AM

Kevin.
Did you mean to say caster is a function of wishbone.

Kevin in NJ · 02-09-2017, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wmws

Kevin.
Did you mean to say caster is a function of wishbone.

Yes I was getting them backwards!!!

KR500 · 02-09-2017, 06:29 PM

Kevin, I viewed your technique for bending on the axle. How would you adjust angle between King pin position with spring perch pin location. This is a point at which many axles bend. For example if you showed a variation between one king pin position with the cones and rod to the same cones and rod at adjacent spring perch position, you would need to bend only in that area. You wouldn't want to try bending in the center of axle to correct a wrong camber angle at each end, because you might create a condition where the front radius rod would be difficult to engage with axle. Caster is not a critical angle. Itmostimportantly needs to be equal on both sides. More positive caster up to about 2 degrees only increases effort to steer, as when parking, and positive caster, which is effected by the ball position in bell housing and the position of front spring is what cause the vehicle when in motion to right itself straight ahead.

rer_239 · 04-03-2019, 05:44 AM

so is a camber reading of 7 degrees within specs?
thanks
Dick

BRENT in 10-uh-C · 04-03-2019, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rer_239

so is a camber reading of 7 degrees within specs?
thanks
Dick

Yes, but the key is the R and L sides should match. If the L side is say, 5 degrees, then you are ok if the R side is 5 degrees also, but the target is 7 degrees.

KR500 · 04-03-2019, 10:25 PM

Camber is actually the downward angle which is built into the front spindle. It makes the inner wheel bearing ( the larger bearing) to carry the inward push of the wheel assembly. King pin inclination (KPI) is the 7 degree angle which positions the wheel, tire assembly to intersect and pivot at the bottom center of the tire at the road surface. The 7 degrees matches the 7 degree angle built into front axle.

katy · 04-04-2019, 10:46 AM

According to page 239 of the service bulletins the (total) camber should be a total of aproximately 1&13/16ths of an inch. IIRC this works out to aproximately 2° per wheel.

d.j. moordigian · 04-04-2019, 11:18 AM

I believe the 7 degrees is the "king pin inclination", which should intersect with the
center of the tire patch on the ground for a stock wheel/tire combination..

Joe K · 04-04-2019, 05:52 PM

Camber is minus 7 (king pin inclination built into the axle - one of those angles one checks when straightening the axle.)

Caster is (IIRC) plus 2 or a bit less. And is set by the height of one's wishbone ball. The aftermarket wishbone receiver CAN increase caster.

Toe in is done in fractions of an inch according to the wheel rim?

Joe K

rotorwrench · 04-04-2019, 06:08 PM

Truck alignment shops bend I-beam axles and some have very good tooling to make the job easy. Bending the axle is the only way to adjust it properly. Model A I-beams flex and bend and many have been through some bending that's left them out of kilter. I have a few bent ones but most can be straightened. The condition of the front cross member mountings and the spring condition can also have an effect.

02-08-2017, 12:18 PM	#1
Smitty Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Boston North Shore Posts: 752	Camber Getting a little uneven wear on my front tires, toe is set correctly, front end is rebuilt and in good shape. Thinking camber may be out in which case I guess would need to send the axle out for adjustment.... Anyone have a good source for such work? Steve

02-08-2017, 10:41 PM	#3
cw253748 Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Clinton, WI. Posts: 49	Re: Camber Hey Mitch//Pa. How do you change your alignment machine to read inches? Mine reads only in degrees.

02-09-2017, 01:19 AM	#4
Chuck Sea/Tac Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Between Seattle & Tacoma Posts: 2,354	Re: Camber Mitch, have you ever set toe by the old way, and then checked the measurerment on your machine? Curious of the " average" accuracy. Smitty: there's a home method of Triangulation that you can check camber.i think it was in a restorer a couple years ago. Sometimes just looking at the front from 15 feet out, you can see the difference in camber between the two from wheels. I'll see if I can locate that article.

02-09-2017, 05:24 AM	#5
kwisor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: lexington sc Posts: 456	Re: Camber hello smitty I though my 30 tudor had the same problem I set the tow tires still wore out then I cheaked the frt end and found all the tie rods loose tighten them up no more problem I would do that 1st kevin

02-09-2017, 07:22 AM	#8
Smitty Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Boston North Shore Posts: 752	Re: Camber Looking at the front end in the car it appears that the camber could be out.. I do have another axle that I could send to someone.....but who?

02-09-2017, 07:46 AM	#9
Kevin in NJ Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South East NJ Posts: 3,398	Re: Camber You could do it yourself. Some metal scraps and a lathe to make the bars and a simple 10 ton press. Here is what I did: Front Axle Keep in mind camber is a function of wishbone. How is the mount for the wishbone ball, do you have a crappy rubber bushing? Is your engine in the correct position?

02-09-2017, 08:14 AM	#10
Tinbasher Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Innisfil, Ontario Canada Posts: 1,174	Re: Camber If your axle in the car is rebuilt, then I would find a heavy truck shop in your area that does alignments. They have the tools to bend the axles to get the angles right. John Poole

02-09-2017, 08:22 AM	#11
wmws BANNED Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Coatesville, Pa Posts: 719	Re: Camber Kevin. Did you mean to say caster is a function of wishbone.

02-09-2017, 06:29 PM	#13
KR500 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Addison,ll. Posts: 453	Re: Camber Kevin, I viewed your technique for bending on the axle. How would you adjust angle between King pin position with spring perch pin location. This is a point at which many axles bend. For example if you showed a variation between one king pin position with the cones and rod to the same cones and rod at adjacent spring perch position, you would need to bend only in that area. You wouldn't want to try bending in the center of axle to correct a wrong camber angle at each end, because you might create a condition where the front radius rod would be difficult to engage with axle. Caster is not a critical angle. Itmostimportantly needs to be equal on both sides. More positive caster up to about 2 degrees only increases effort to steer, as when parking, and positive caster, which is effected by the ball position in bell housing and the position of front spring is what cause the vehicle when in motion to right itself straight ahead.

04-03-2019, 05:44 AM	#14
rer_239 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: muskegon, mi Posts: 294	Re: Camber so is a camber reading of 7 degrees within specs? thanks Dick

04-03-2019, 10:25 PM	#16
KR500 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Addison,ll. Posts: 453	Re: Camber Camber is actually the downward angle which is built into the front spindle. It makes the inner wheel bearing ( the larger bearing) to carry the inward push of the wheel assembly. King pin inclination (KPI) is the 7 degree angle which positions the wheel, tire assembly to intersect and pivot at the bottom center of the tire at the road surface. The 7 degrees matches the 7 degree angle built into front axle.

04-04-2019, 10:46 AM	#17
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,042	Re: Camber According to page 239 of the service bulletins the (total) camber should be a total of aproximately 1&13/16ths of an inch. IIRC this works out to aproximately 2° per wheel. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

04-04-2019, 11:18 AM	#18
d.j. moordigian Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Fresno, Ca. Posts: 3,636	Re: Camber I believe the 7 degrees is the "king pin inclination", which should intersect with the center of the tire patch on the ground for a stock wheel/tire combination..

04-04-2019, 05:52 PM	#19
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: Camber Camber is minus 7 (king pin inclination built into the axle - one of those angles one checks when straightening the axle.) Caster is (IIRC) plus 2 or a bit less. And is set by the height of one's wishbone ball. The aftermarket wishbone receiver CAN increase caster. Toe in is done in fractions of an inch according to the wheel rim? Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse. Last edited by Joe K; 04-04-2019 at 05:58 PM.

04-04-2019, 06:08 PM	#20
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,422	Re: Camber Truck alignment shops bend I-beam axles and some have very good tooling to make the job easy. Bending the axle is the only way to adjust it properly. Model A I-beams flex and bend and many have been through some bending that's left them out of kilter. I have a few bent ones but most can be straightened. The condition of the front cross member mountings and the spring condition can also have an effect.