35 ford coolant loss?

[jack99]

I have a 1935 Ford 85 Hp v-8. I am at a loss as to why I keep loosing radiator water. I do not see any spillover on floor of garage, nor do I see any steam from tail pipe. All of a sudden I see a high temp on temp gage and I have to add another gallon to radiator. All the time the engine runs like a clock. What do you think ? Bad head gasket? Takes a week or two to present the problem. Any advise or thought would be appreciated. Thanks!

[Brian]

Jack, Can you please remove radiator cap and take a photo looking into the radiator? With the coolant level down a bit so I can see inside. Seriously!! Thank you.

[Brian]

You'll get several replies, some saying to run a 4lb check valve etc, but the fact is, Ford used several radiators in 1935 to overcome the very problem you're encountering. I need to see exactly which of these radiators you have before I can comment further. Thank you, Brian

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone. Well, jack99, I'll jump in.

We could really use some more information. What history do you have with the car/engine? Is it a '35 engine? (21 studs, water pumps in heads, for starters) What can you tell us about the cooling system? Does it have thermostats? Photos of the under-hood area would help us.

I've found with my small radiator, very stock '35, which I've been driving since last June, it likes to start a trip with the coolant just below the tubes so you can't see any in the top tank. At the end of a run there will be plenty in there.

Edit to add: I must admit I don't leave home in that car without two gallons extra coolant.

[jack99]

I did look inside and I could tell that the water pumps were circulating the water after filling the radiator. I hope you are not being rude.

[jack99]

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FYI I am not a half wit .

[jack99]

Yes it is a 35 engine with 21 studs. Driven the car for several years with no problems. Just asking for advise not insults. Thanks I thought we were all in this together.

[jack99]

BRIAN. Why do you think you need to post about someone being a nit wit when you have never met them?? Who do you think you are.????

[JSeery]

Where did you get the idea Brain was referring to you as a nit wit? Believe he is attempting to help you by IDing which of several possible radiators you have.

The comment at the bottom of his post is below a line, it is always there on all his post!! Several members have these type of add-ons.

[flatjack9]

Hey Jack, you come in here with an attitude like that and you're not going to get much help. Brian was NOT referring to you. He is a valuable asset on this forum.

[JM 35 Sedan]

jack99, I think you are reading Brian's signature post that appears every time he posts, like my Henry Ford quote. His signature post is not directed at you. Brian is a senior member here who spends a lot of his time making many posts to help folks here.

[Karl]

Originally Posted by flatjack9

Hey Jack, you come in here with an attitude like that and you're not going to get much help. Brian was NOT referring to you. He is a valuable asset on this forum.

And a real nice guy in person as well -Karl

[FlatheadTed]

Delet

[Brian]

Jack, Further to my posts above, I have a service bulletin issued by Ford that shows how to modify a particular radiator to overcome the very problem you are experiencing. I asked you to post a picture in order I may ascertain exactly which radiator you have. I also said you'd get numerous responses to your request. Sorry you seem to think I was making fun of you, regards, Brian
Don't read my signature; it doesn't relate to you.

[Terry,OH]

Brian: Could you post a copy the Ford Service Bulletin?

[Jembow]

My 35 V8-60 was rebuilt by a flathead specialist here in the UK with a new repro radiator. I have the same problem, no thermostats, runs cool, but uses coolant.

[Kerk]

Many years ago I had the same problem. Was advised not to fill to the very top because it leaves no room for expansion and when coolant gets warm and expands it goes out the overflow tube which can start a siphoning of the coolant. Worked for me.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by Jembow

My 35 V8-60 was rebuilt by a flathead specialist here in the UK with a new repro radiator. I have the same problem, no thermostats, runs cool, but uses coolant.

My 35 fordor was doing the same thing when I first started driving it in 2007. Would puke coolent out the overflow tube when I drove it ~ 45-50 mph for any length of time. I didn't realize it was happening until the engine temperature began reading high. Would usually require 1 gallon or more to fill it back up. When I went with Ship Haney's overflow 3-4 lb pressure valve, this slowed the coolent loss way down. Then when I went with a set of his pumps the engine ran cooler and this also helped reduce the loss. When I replaced the 4.11 gears with 3.78's this helped slow the engine rpm at highway speeds and further reduced coolent loss, and now with 3.54 gears, I can cruise all day long at 60-65mph and not even worry about coolent loss any more. That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by Kerk

Many years ago I had the same problem. Was advised not to fill to the very top because it leaves no room for expansion and when coolant gets warm and expands it goes out the overflow tube which can start a siphoning of the coolant. Worked for me.

It's poor advise not putting the full 22 quarts in the system. This alone causes
elevated temperatures. The system requires VERY little room for expansion
below 205 degrees. Coolant is not siphoned out the over flow tube, it is
pushed or just natural over flow from coolant backing up in the tank. The problem was solved in the middle 40's when Ford installed a 4 lb pressure
cap. You don't see many posts about the later years losing coolant. G.M.

[hombres ruin]

Bad head gasket..happend to me with the exact same symptoms.Do a check for combustion gases in the radiator,a simple test kit you can get from napa will suffice.pull the dipstick look at the oil color,is it a chocolate milkshake color? drain the oil and see if there is water there.

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by hombres ruin

Bad head gasket..happend to me with the exact same symptoms.Do a check for combustion gases in the radiator,a simple test kit you can get from napa will suffice.pull the dipstick look at the oil color,is it a chocolate milkshake color? drain the oil and see if there is water there.

You don't have to drain the oil to look for water. After the engine sits
overnight just loosen, don't take out the drain plug and catch a few
spoons full of water or oil. The water is on the bottom and comes out
first. G.M.

[Seth Swoboda]

Just a thought I'll add, do any of the head studs seep coolant around the nut? It sounds a bit ridiculous but if you have several of those studs weeping over time it can make a difference in the amount of coolant in the system.

[AnthonyG]

Do they make a 4 lb. pressure cap that fits on all the different '35 radiators? Also when using Haney's 4lb pressure valve on the overflow tube do you need the pressure cap also? The reason I ask is I put an overflow tank with shut off petcock valve on mine thinking it would resolve the issues you all are indicating. How ever when the car reached temp it started blowing past the non-pressure type cap so opened the valve on the overflow tank which stopped it pushing through the cap but still pushes out the of the open valve. Only have the issue in weather over 70 degrees. Really feel was an exercise in futility, LOL.

[Brian]

Anthony, the caps on 35's are not 'pressure caps'. However, if it has a good seal, if you screw it on TIGHT, it'll seal. Now run your overflow into the catchcan, ensure the hose goes all the way to the bottom of said catchcan. Do not seal the catchcan. You have now replicated a modern cars system. When the coolant in the radiator heats up, it expands. It goes through the overflow into the catchcan. The radiator will however, always be full to the brim with coolant. As the coolant cools and contracts, it will syphon back from the catchcan. The radiator will always be full, irrespective of temperature.
I am assuming the overflow in your radiator eminates from the uppermost portion of the top header. If it ends just under the radiator cap, as I'm thinking Jacks is, then that is the level the coolant will be at.

[AnthonyG]

Thx Brian, guess my question was can I buy a pressurized 4 lb cap for the '35 radiator to seal it. I did a setup exactly as you suggested on my 442. Lots of room on passenger side of radiator and under the hood concealed looks much like stock version on newer cars. However on the '35 as I run without a hood and didn't want to see the overflow tank I bought, https://www.amazon.com/Radiator-Over...+radiator+tank
I think I mounted it in a spot too far below the coolant level ( as you indicate ). It's designed sealed. First use I let the car warm up to let the coolant expand then closed the petcock valve sealing it thinking as the coolant cooled the shrinking would suck / siphon the overflow back into the tank regardless of height in relation to coolant. NOT, LOL. Instead as stated it blew out the cap obviously screwing up the siphon action when cooling. I'm thinking maybe I need to mount higher with top of tank at the level of the coolant when full. Also I believe I will have to mount the petcock valve so it's at the top of the tank as positioned. Hoping doing these two things will let both gravity and the siphoning action working together but still think I need to seal the radiator with a cap designed to seal / pressurize. Tank is polished aluminum so that part won't look too bad in the engine compartment next to the radiator showing. Sorry to steal the thread, wasn't my intention. Seems like my problem is similar enough as many and that it might help all having the issue.

[Brian]

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Anthony, the overflow container needs to be open to atmospheric pressure, and have the hose running all the way to the bottom of the container. That way, the bottom of the hose is always immersed in coolant and can syphon back into the radiator. Trust me; it'll work. On my 35, I just use a plastic catchcan outta some old Jappa, it tucks down between back of rad and front engine mount / sits on crossmember. Hard to see. works a treat. I drive my car - hard!! and never worry about coolant loss - only fuel loss! lol.

[Brian]

Jack, Hopefully you can read this; it's out of a Ford service bulletin and addresses what is an all too common fault in 35 Fords. If, when you look into your radiator through the filler, you see the end of the overflow and a baffle, then you have the earlier styled radiator. The problem is that the overflow is positioned too low in the top tank, with resultant major coolant loss. The solution is to extend the overflow up through the top of the tank and opening at the highest point. This effectively raises the coolant level, ie, you can only fill the radiator to the level of the filler, but if you screw the [non pressurised] cap on real tight, as coolant heats up and expands, it cannot escape until it reaches the opening to the overflow, which is at the highest point. Any further expansion over and above that point will blow coolant out the overflow to be lost on the road.
Now, if you run the other end of the overflow into a catchcan, [all the way to the bottom as I've mentioned in my above posts] that is also open to atmospheric pressure, you with have a system, same as all modern vehicles have, whereby, the radiator will always be full, irrespective of temperature, speed, whatever.
First thing to do is to get the top of the overflow tube to that highest point.

[JM 35 Sedan]

jack99, you don't have to be embarrassed to come back and acknowledge the help you got on your original post. It's easy to make mistakes when you are unfamiliar with a forum. Just sayin'

[jack99]

I do appreciate the fact that I have received so much help on this issue. I have had a e-mail exchange between Brian and my self and have cleared up all of our or my misunderstanding early on. We are fine. I have promised him I would send him photos of the radiator in the car. I have has several medical tests the past few days and have has minimal free time. It will get done and again I am thankful for all of your support.

[Brian]

Jack, you don't need to take pictures; I have posted a copy of the service bulletin which should help identify which style radiator you have. If, when you look into the filler, you see a baffle and the end of the overflow tube, you'll want to modify the radiator as explained in my text and the service bulletin.

[Talkwrench]

Brian is trying to help you geez.. Not the sort of guy that would think badly of anyone.

[VeryTangled]

Hi Everyone. I'm enjoying this conversation, thank you contributors.

I have a '36 without stats and it (knock wood) is a swiss watch. Never spills fluid, never needs top-up. Had the car ten years, minimal cooling service required in that time.

Not the case with the very original/old and worn-out '35 I got last summer which I've driven as much as practical since then, and have never really gotten the cooling system to where either the car or I was happy. Hoses, new stats, (previous owner put on Skip's pumps just before I got it) and flushing are a few things I've done, as well as trying to figure what level it likes when it's cool.

Mostly it drips slowly from the overflow tube onto the ground under the grill. Never more than 1/2 a dollar bill, even when it's doing it a lot. I think it drips as I'm driving too. When I add fluid it can be a half gallon or so.

The day after I got it tagged, I was off for a 100+ mile ride. At the end of one 30 minute ride that day, the gauge was red to the top when I stopped. I opened the hood, and when I turned the cap it surprised me by popping up and onto the ground! From that I took it that the system was holding some amount of positive pressure at the time.

I think I'm gonna take a close look at where the tube is in the top tank!

I'll always listen to JM's experience and will at least investigate the check valve if the tube is already near the top of the top tank.

[jack99]

To Brian and others who have offered much appreciated help to-date:

Sorry for the delay in providing photos that may be helpful. I've been trying to post in the thread as well as upload to an album but I get a "missing security token" message, but I requested help from Admin
and hope to get you the photos soon.

Brian - Thanks for the service bulletin - it's a little faint to read so I don't
know if you can send/post a version that is a little clearer, but I think I
get the idea of what it says.

Thanks again to all.
jack