roadster 1/4 panel wheel house fender location holes

[acchaplin]

What kind of template do you guys used to locate and drill the rear fender holes in the 1/4 panel? Thanks.

The 8' long roadster 1/4 panel blueprint was to be used either during the stamping, or right after the stamping using a template to locate and hand drill the holes.

[stingywrap]

The template would likely be designed based on precise measurements and specifications from the 8' long roadster quarter panel blueprint. It would include markings or guides indicating the exact locations where holes need to be drilled for mounting the rear fender.
Material and Construction: The template may be made of durable materials such as metal or plastic, depending on the manufacturing process and requirements. It would need to withstand repeated use and accurately maintain its shape and dimensions.

[DavidG]

The holes would have been created during the stamping process, not drilled post-stamping.

[acchaplin]

Originally Posted by stingywrap

The template would likely be designed based on precise measurements and specifications from the 8' long roadster quarter panel blueprint. It would include markings or guides indicating the exact locations where holes need to be drilled for mounting the rear fender.
Material and Construction: The template may be made of durable materials such as metal or plastic, depending on the manufacturing process and requirements. It would need to withstand repeated use and accurately maintain its shape and dimensions.

The way the bluprint is drawn there are two places the meaurements are starting from. Centerline of the rear axle, and 1/2" towards the rear of the panel axle centerline. (taking a measurment from a unknown variable, ex; the rear axle centerline is not a fixed part of the 1/4 panel. The axle location to the 1/4 panel is not a fixed point of referance) The 2nd place is the measurements start from is the rolled (bead) lower leading edge of the 1/4 panel. But when the body is assembled, ex; the rocker panel is welded and smoothed, blended in with the 1/4 panel, that point of referance is now gone.

With no fixed starting points now to measure from the only way to properly locate the fender mounting holes in the 1/4 is either, a different blueprint showing a fixed starting point(s) to measure from, or a template of some sort, that fits the compound curves of the 1/4 panel wheel well recess. (where the rear fender fits into) The 8' long blueprint is not drawn to actual scale.

All I want to do is drill the "correct number" or required rear fender holes and in the "correct location" in a blank (smooth no holes) roadster 1/4 panel.

The materials you describe the location template should be made of is correct. Does anyone on here have such a percise hole location template I could beg, bum, borrow, buy, or steal, please?

Thanks

[Karl Wescott]

Don't over think this.


Locate an original Ford fender in good enough condition to fit to the body and running boards. (The body should be aligned to the frame with front fenders fit also).


Clamp the fender in position. Then mark the hole locations as stamped in the fenders to the body (a can of spray paint makes a good marker).


Alternately, Roadsters share the same rear fender with the 5 Window, 3 Window, and Cabriolet. You could try to find some friendly soul who would allow you to use their original wheelwell for you to construct a template for the bolt locations.


Note that some of the mounting on the vertical part of the wheelwell were studs, the horizontal holes across the top used bolts. DavidG or someone more recently familiar with the wheelwell will have to step in to state whether the nuts were captive, or loose.

[glennpm]

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Originally Posted by Karl Wescott

Don't over think this.

Note that some of the mounting on the vertical part of the wheelwell were studs, the horizontal holes across the top used bolts. DavidG or someone more recently familiar with the wheelwell will have to step in to state whether the nuts were captive, or loose.

The bolts along the top are cage nuts. I replaced some of mine with new.

[Krylon32]

I've done several Brookville full fendered roadsters and neither the fenders or body had any holes. The frame boxing fixture I used had a really good method of locating the running board holes. When It came time to bolt on the fenders I installed the running boards, aligned and clamped the fender to the board and drilled the 3 running board holes in the fender and bolted them on then went to the back where I had installed the frame horn covers, I pushed the fenders up into position, aligned the fender with the horn covers and proceeded to drill the holes thru the fender into the body working from front to rear installing the bolts as I went along. When I got to the back everything was aligned and looked good. When I disassembled the car for paint I installed cage nuts over the holes. Fender mounting now is much easier using United Pacific front and rear fenders which have all the mounting holes in the correct place.

[acchaplin]

[QUOTE=Karl Wescott;2308664]Don't over think this.


Locate an original Ford fender in good enough condition to fit to the body and running boards. (The body should be aligned to the frame with front fenders fit also)


Alternately, Roadsters share the same rear fender with the 5 Window, 3 Window, and Cabriolet. You could try to find some friendly soul,,,,,,,,,,,

VERY WISE WORDS!! "Don't Overthink This" I have had many people tell me that I read too much! "Just go do it, quit study about it. It it's wrong, do it over and be done with it!"

Now, I am "NOT" being sarcastic! But I think I would have a better chance of teaching a overweight Unicorn to tap dance to the song "Puttin' On The Ritz"! Before I would be able to find someone around here who would "loan" me a pair of original '32 Ford rear fenders!

Besides 2 years ago I was able to borrow a busted fiberglass rear fender to use to transfer the holes on one side. Quickly found out that without the front fenders and running boards mounted, there was 3+" of movement the rear fender could fit the fender opening in the 1/4!

I then jumped on the offer of a copy of the original factory '32 1/4 panel, and complete chassis blueprint. The chassis print was/has been very helpful and fairly easy to read! The 8' long 1/4 panel print, (rolling eyes while shaking bowed head slowly back and forth) I think the drafstman was orderd to use up two boxes of pencil lead, or be fired! There are a dozen or so measurments and intersecting lines that could have been added together, to make one simple line and measurment. The reference (starting ) points, one has NOTHING in corelation of the 1/4 panel at all (ex; centerline of the rear axle), the other is the plain (freshly stamped) 1/4 panel, NOT the assembled body. So w/o a sharp fixed starting point, I can be 1/2" or so off. I am told, Aw quit reading about it and do what everyone does, just waller the fender holes to fit! lol.

So that leaves me with, either, find another blueprint, (is there one?) or use a template to correctly locate and drill the holes in the correct location. Or read about it and use some Rube Goldberg device to located and drill the holes. (insert smiley face icon here)

I haven't disclosed in much detail on any of these sites what I am trying to build. It was an abandoed unfinished project I bought a decade ago. Even though it's a High, Hy, Hi, (tall) Boy (no fender or running boards), it does NOT have a scrub line the height of a pack of Camels! The main body is a stock appearing Brookville. Other than a 8" (measured at the center) high windshield. Minus the door side curtain holes, (which I have been trying to come up with a way to get them w/o marring the paint) and the rear fender location holes, which I will use polished acorn nuts or hex headed bolts to fill them.

EVERY visible, (even some will be covered up) screw, bolt, wahser (flat and lock) and acorn nut on the ENTIRE car is polished stainless. A lot of the brackets I have made out of stainless and polished. A lot of the bolts, I have made using a grade 8 all thread, loctite a polished acorn nut down tight, tehn another 1/8 turn.

The complete chassis, (early production) driveline, gas tank is original other than the 4140 I had made the tie rod and adj drag link out of. Original end housings. Hudson steering conversion so I could use the original headlight switch. The new king pins I welded the mechanical brake cups on the top for the original look. Houdaillies all around, and just an hour ago finally found a pair of original rear shock arms I have been looking for. Most builds have a bracket welded and blended into the frame for the rear hood latch. I did not want to weld something or drill any extra holes in frame so I made two brackets out of stainless and used existing factory frame holes to mount them.

The grille, hood sides and firewall are original. I had made (Chevy, Ford, Massy Ferguson, poly Plymouth) a complete dual point distrubitor (taller, shaft, oil lite bushings to be able to clear the firewall toe board protrusion, instead of recessing a original firewall. The plywood floors and pedal seals are (early production) original. The steering wheel, headlight swith rod/horn button, coloumn, drop and dash insert are all original. Instead of cutting a hole in the original plywood floor for battery access, I made a battry box covered in stainless that swings down.

Brakes are the '56 F-100 in fronts, and the 39-42 in the rear. Dual master cly (I forget what it's to) is in the original location with an adapter I made.

Even though I have been chastised (in the past) for building a "Hot Rod" (this isn't the site for them), there is more original parts on this build than some "restorations"! "If" I had the deeper pockets, I would have looked for more original body parts, (hood tops, grille shell, etc body(?))

I ain't telling what I spent 6 years doing to the motor. (just to see if "I could do it"), Or, how I made original looking bumper guards, and overriders. Of course the re-popp bumpers and irons are midified. (cause I said that won't get me kicked off this site, will it lol)

Now. Big questions! Is there a different drawn factory blueprint showing the rear fender hole locations that I can get? Or a template I can bum, borrow ,beg, buy, or steal that I can locate those holes. "If" I am going to drill any holes in this body, they HAVE TO BE IN THE ORIGINAL LOCATION!

Some manifacturing plants will have a 'lazy' person or two on the payroll. The simple reason, they will natually find the easiest way to get something done. NOT saying people on here are lazy! But need that one person that can see the easiest way to accomplish a task! Tell/show me the way to percisely locate and dril these rear fender holes, please!

Thank you!

[glennpm]

If you post a picture of the wheel well portion of your print, someone may be able to give you a few reference dimensions back to the frame holes and the bottom of the frame too. Is the frame original or drilled to the original dimensions as an original?


Putting stainless hardware in the wheel wells, assuming you will be mounting fenders, is a waste IMHO. Make sure you are using grade B8 hardware on all suspension bolting.


If the drawing you have is copyrighted, you could block out all the dimensions, leaving the reference points only for indexing purposes.


If you have trouble posting pictures, send it to me and I'll post it for you.



Glenn

[acchaplin]

QUOTE=glennpm;2308782]If you post a picture of the wheel well portion of your print, someone may be able to give you a few reference dimensions back to the frame holes and the bottom of the frame too. Is the frame original or drilled to the original dimensions as an original?
Yes, I can have a picute taken and post it on here. I don't understand. Can't you look at your own copy? Or is the body print you have not a roadster?
As I mentioned my complete rolling chassis, (early production) except for the parts I mentiond, is all original.
Please explain what you mean by reference holes in the frame in correlation to the holes in the 1/4 panel wheel well? There is NO mention of a frame or chassis in the body print. As I stated, the ONLY mention of anything outside of the body print, was reference to the center line of the axle, and a reference 1/2" beind the CL of the axle. (a certified draftsman told me why below)

Putting stainless hardware in the wheel wells, assuming you will be mounting fenders, is a waste IMHO. Make sure you are using grade B8 hardware on all suspension bolting.
I use 304 stainless plate to make all brackets, covers, and 304 or 8-18 stainless hardware. (nuts, bolts, screws, washers, etc) because they can easily be polished (on a buffing wheel) to a "chrome" finish, last longer than chrome, and is CHEAPER than chrome plating! Plus, I like doing it.
Yes, exactly on the B8 grade of bolts! Like I mentiond, when the head of the bolt is exposed visually, and it requires that tensile strenth I'll use grade 8 all thread (comes in 3' lengths) and bottom out, then lock-tite, a acorn nut for the head. No, do not plan at this time to be mounting fenders. But I would like for the holes to be there in the correct place, so it looks original, and a fender could be mounted in the future.


If the drawing you have is copyrighted, you could block out all the dimensions, leaving the reference points only for indexing purposes.
Do not know about the copyright. I took the print to a certified drafstman (at a car show) to get his opnion. He stated, "This print was drawn during the depression. Anybody who knew how to load a mechanical pencil was hired as a draftsman. That's why this print is so confusing, and the draftsman's name is smudged up there in the index."

If you have trouble posting pictures, send it to me and I'll post it for you.
Thank you. I get my grandson to take all the pictures (whenever he's around) and my wife posts them for me.

As a side note; I even sent an hole location request to Brookville last fall. And again around Feb. No reply, yet.



Glenn[/QUOTE]

[glennpm]

Yes, I can have a picture taken and post it on here. I don't understand. Can't you look at your own copy? Or is the body print you have not a roadster?

I don't have a print

As I mentioned my complete rolling chassis, (early production) except for the parts I mentiond, is all original.

Good

Please explain what you mean by reference holes in the frame in correlation to the holes in the 1/4 panel wheel well? There is NO mention of a frame or chassis in the body print. As I stated, the ONLY mention of anything outside of the body print, was reference to the center line of the axle, and a reference 1/2" beind the CL of the axle. (a certified draftsman told me why below)

Yes, understood regarding your print not showing the frame.

Since you have the body mounted in its permanent position, the center-line of holes in the frame become reference points. Measurements from these frame reference points can then be used to locate centerlines for a few holes in the quarter panel. Your drawing will then be used to locate the remaining holes in the quarter panel.

On the drawing below, dimensions D1 and D2, originate at two frame bolts. The intersection of the arcs, D1 and D2 will give you the location of the hole in the panel. In this case to the threaded stud. Three holes located like this example would allow you to locate the remaining holes in your panel.





Yes, exactly on the B8 grade of bolts! Like I mentiond, when the head of the bolt is exposed visually, and it requires that tensile strenth I'll use grade 8 all thread (comes in 3' lengths) and bottom out, then lock-tite, a acorn nut for the head. No, do not plan at this time to be mounting fenders. But I would like for the holes to be there in the correct place, so it looks original, and a fender could be mounted in the future.

Good on the B8 grade!

If the drawing you have is copyrighted, you could block out all the dimensions, leaving the reference points only for indexing purposes.
Do not know about the copyright. I took the print to a certified drafstman (at a car show) to get his opnion.

No such thing as a certified draftsman, engineer yes, draftsman no.

If you have trouble posting pictures, send it to me and I'll post it for you.
Thank you. I get my grandson to take all the pictures (whenever he's around) and my wife posts them for me.

Okay

As a side note; I even sent an hole location request to Brookville last fall. And again around Feb. No reply, yet.

Probably as good a chance of getting your unicorn on a flight as a "comfort animal" :-)

Glenn

[glennpm]

I just looked at this thread on the HAMB. You may want to contact Neal to see if he would be willing to take a few dimensions or pattern for you.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...#post-15210535

[acchaplin]

Mr. PM, or is it "Glenn In The Afternoon." (insert simley face here)

Ok, after reading your post/pictures several times, then looking at the blueprints each time. I see where you were correct and I was wrong.

I would have NEVER believed a body panel (fender) would fasten both to the body and frame at the same time, when they both flex at differnt rates.

So, as you see in the frame/chassis print there are three holes stamped there. See the "R" reference point? Go to the index and is lists "R" as; "5/16" Fender". The third larger hole (Shown on the print and my frame) between the two fender holes. There is no refrence to it in the index. So, I have no idea what it was stamped for? (maybe a "genius" can elaborate)

In the body print there is no referance to those frame fender mounting holes. There is a 'hidden' top-line-of-the-chassis indication line ( a dotted or dashed line means 'hidden or behind')

There is the "Fender Center Line" hole and indication. It is the solid line 1/2" behine the axle Center Line. (A "C" with a "L" drawn through it means 'Centerline')

You can see where the other fender mounting holes have their measurements comming off the "Fender Centerline". What I don't see (must can't hear out of one eye, or piss out of the other) how far in from the outside bead roll are those 4 fender holes located? In the index it states 3 of those fender holes, (the center as well as the 2 holes towards the front are drilled 7/16")

Can anyone else that is a brighter bulb than me able to "read" this body print?
Thanks

[glennpm]

The print is unreadable. You should really get a set of rear fenders to do this properly.



Glenn

[acchaplin]

Probably as good a chance of getting your unicorn on a flight as a "comfort animal" :-)

Well,,,, acording to the ADA web site, reguarding "Service Animals". Miniture Horses are accepted as "Comfort Animals!" One could glue a carrot on the horses' head, paint it an off white, sprinkle lots of glitter all over the animal........ One "might" get the little horse to pass as a little unicorn,,,,,?
That would be an awful lot of work to take advantage of a 'loophole' in the ADA.
Still, a funny comment.

Ok, your "D-1" and "D-2" indication lines you were able to draw, (my comment about the "big bucks." I have NO idea how to do that on a computer) showing distance from the upper and lower frame fender mounting holes to the 1/4 panel fender mounting hole. Do you happen to have those measurments, please?

Last night I was trying to think why/how I missed those frame holes you showed me (THANKS) for the fender, when I tried to use that busted fiberglass fender to trace the holes a couple years ago. So, I drove over to the next town to the guy that had that busted fender. He had throwed it away shortly after I tried to use it. So he jacked up his car, a chopped all smooth, whorehouse red, fiberglass Vicky on a TCI (?) frame, Corvette rear and Mustang front. There are NO holes located in the bottom of either one of his glass fenders into the frame! No wonder I was confused! Thanks again for correcting me.

The print is unreadable. That's what that draftsman (he has a couple of university degrees. Draws blueprints for a living, and is quite wealthy) said at the car show.

Good idea! Contact "Neil In California" see what he sez!

[glennpm]

Originally Posted by acchaplin

Probably as good a chance of getting your unicorn on a flight as a "comfort animal" :-)

Well,,,, acording to the ADA web site, reguarding "Service Animals". Miniture Horses are accepted as "Comfort Animals!" One could glue a carrot on the horses' head, paint it an off white, sprinkle lots of glitter all over the animal........ One "might" get the little horse to pass as a little unicorn,,,,,?
That would be an awful lot of work to take advantage of a 'loophole' in the ADA.
Still, a funny comment.





Ok, your "D-1" and "D-2" indication lines you were able to draw, (my comment about the "big bucks." I have NO idea how to do that on a computer) showing distance from the upper and lower frame fender mounting holes to the 1/4 panel fender mounting hole. Do you happen to have those measurments, please?


I'll see what I can do.

D1 = 3 3/4"
D2 = 6 5/8"

The print is unreadable. That's what that draftsman (he has a couple of university degrees. Draws blueprints for a living, and is quite wealthy) said at the car show.


I mean that I can't view the dimensions. The picture isn't fine enough to be enlarged and read. Maybe your print isn't sharp enough. If it is sharp, you could also take closeup pictures of the front, in the area of the picture I took, the rear corner and a few in between.



Good idea! Contact "Neil In California" see what he sez!

Yes