My new engine starting nightmare in Seattle. Touring motor.

[Hitchhiker]

I have a late 31 model A pickup with a fairly hot "touring" engine. I've hesitated to post here as my vehicle is more of a hot rod, even though it is all 99% model A Ford and not modified at all besides bolt ons. I'm very inexperienced with these engines and I'm getting pretty frustrated, so hoping someone has some insight.

I'll start with the engine specs.

It's a .60 over model A engine with counterbalanced crank and lightened flywheel. It is running a Super Winfield head at 7:1 compression. It has a Winfield SU1A cam, and a old Mallory distributor with 25 degrees advance at 2500 rpm. It also has a Winfield B downdraft and manifold i have tried and I would like to run, but is currently set up with a stock zenith updraft.

It was a stock style rebuild with the crank, flywheel and such of unknown origins. It came with my truck. I added the winfield stuff.

I have been trying to get this thing to start for two months and have been battling a long list of problems. The longest I have been able to get it to run is about 4 seconds, but shut it down as the winfield carb was leaking everywhere. This was the first time I started it. It hasn't run again.


Heres the list of problems I've had and what I have done.

At first it was really cranking slow. I ended up replacing the battery and cleaning connections and that helped a lot.

the real problem was the winfield carb was all sorts of messed up. It flooded the engine. Leaked everywhere I've rebuilt it and I think fixed the problem stuff but put a stock carb on to try and fire. still nothing. I haven't tried the winfield again. This was my hugest time waste.

I have set the timing multiple times with the pin method, and checked it all with the head off. everything appears in time.

It is pretty hard to turn over by hand but I think that should be expected and in my opinion cranks pretty slow, but I have tried it on 12 volts and it still wouldn't start.

I had the head off also recently because the ring in #1 was making noise. I added a thimble of oil and it quieted down. I think it was because it flooded so badly It literally had fuel sitting in the bottom of the manifold maybe about a shot glass worth? I'm worried that has ruined things.

When i put the head back on I didn't use any sealer on the gasket and a old head gasket(unused,but older than I am) and it won't blow your thumb off the spark plug hole now and it is bubbling out the side between the head and block. I also only set it to 55ftlbs, should it be higher? 65ftlbs? I'm going to put a new gasket in, but I am starting to get real frustrated with this, of now it's just an expensive paper weight.


Suggestions?

thanks for any help.

Matt

[700rpm]

I'm a strictly stock guy and not experienced with Mallory distributors except to say that I had one on my coupe when I first bought it. After similar frustrations trying to get the timing right, I gave up on the Mallory and went back to a stock distributor. My takeaway on that was that you really have to know how to set the Mallory up and time it for a Model A. I suggest therein lies your trouble.

Oh, and I would add, I don't think you're very far away from a solution. Even with your mods these engines are pretty simple. Spark, gas, compression, and timing, and it should fire.

[Mike V. Florida]

get the head on right before you go any further. Use a sealer of your choice, most use copper coat. 65 is better for torque.

[Mike V. Florida]

Where did you get the Mallory? Is it new? " Bubbas Hot Rod Shop" in Indianapolis can build it with either points or electronic . Just give Jim a call .
317-247-6322

[Hitchhiker]

Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

Where did you get the Mallory? Is it new?

It's a mallory YA 11A supposedly from a combine built from 1938-1940. Single point. cap and rotor are still available. I had it restored by Jim Linder.

[Hitchhiker]

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Originally Posted by Mike V. Florida

get the head on right before you go any further. Use a sealer of your choice, most use copper coat. 65 is better for torque.

will do.

[colin1928]

pm sent

[Tom Wesenberg]

I agree with Ray and Mike. I always use Copper coat on both sides of the head gasket. Have you checked the head for flatness?

Are you using an electric fuel pump with the downdraft carb that flooded? Maybe it had too much pressure. I found that my 12 volt Holley electric pump has way too much pressure and volume. Even when running it on 6 volts it still has 15 pounds pressure. I added a 4 ohm 50 watt resistor to the 12 volt Holley pump and it's just right when running on 6 volts.

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by Hitchhiker

It's a mallory YA 11A supposedly from a combine built from 1938-1940. Single point. cap and rotor are still available. I had it restored by Jim Linder.

Why not try a dist to get it started. Then go back to the mag. Mags have to be set different because of the impulse. Sounds to me like slow timing or vacuum leak.

[Rex_A_Lott]

I think you have all the info you need :
1- Coppercoat the head gasket and get it sealed up and re-torqued up.
2- Put the stock intake and distributor in and get it running
3- switch your hot rod stuff out, one component at a time, to get back where you want to be.

when I start having problems, I always ask myself : " What was the last thing you dicked with?" Hence my advice to change one thing at a time.
Good Luck

[Dave in MN]

IMO: Use a good sealer (K&W Copper Coat or like) and re-torque to 55#. Run the engine easy to operating temp and re-torque back to 55#. If you need to go to 65#, there is something else causing the leaking problem. (Warped head? Damage at the top of the block?) I never go to 65# anymore...I did a few times when new to the whole Model A experience and pulled two studs out of my block. Low compression: With the raw gas pulled into the cylinders, they are likely very dry. Put some oil in each cylinder when you have the head off and turn it over a few times. The oil will help minimize cylinder damage when started. Compression tests should be done with a warm engine.
Good Day!

www.durableperformance.net

[Mitch//pa]

yes what the others said about coating the gasket,
do a leak down test and make sure you have a strong steady spark

[d.j. moordigian]

....while your at it,...re-run the valves!

[Bob C]

Have you done a compression check??

Bob

[Juggler]

Hey Matt

I have a similar set up to you albeit on a B block - SU1R cam, Mallory YA11, repop Winfield head (6.8:1?) with a single 97.

When I first put it back together (it came apart to put a better crank in) I ran it up with the stock distributor and carb (ok, a Tilly). No problems.

When I swapped to the Mallory and the 97 and tried to put some load on it I found it VERY susceptible to timing and had to retard it a fair bit to get it to start. When running on the street then had to retard it further as it would pink/ping/knock. I think that the higher the compression, the hotter the cam the more pernickety it gets. You have both

I've now found the sweet spot after much trial and error. Starts first time every time and I've had it up to just shy of 70mph on the sand at Pendine in the truck in my avatar. That was running a 3.27 rear end and 21's at a calculated 2400 revs. Would like to think it would go a little more on a longer course.

PS - when I was running it up in the test chassis the D/D carb ran ok with a 30 tank/cowl, static under no load. When I swapped the 29 body on I needed a fuel pump even though the head of fuel was only a couple of inches lower. I think it's a 12v Carter pump, now running on 6v for about 2lbs pressure, bought through Sammy at Arizona Model A.

Keep at it. Will be worth it in the end

Cheers

Juggs

[Hitchhiker]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I agree with Ray and Mike. I always use Copper coat on both sides of the head gasket. Have you checked the head for flatness?

Are you using an electric fuel pump with the downdraft carb that flooded? Maybe it had too much pressure. I found that my 12 volt Holley electric pump has way too much pressure and volumn. Even when running it on 6 volts it still has 15 pounds pressure. I added a 4 ohm 50 watt resistor to the 12 volt Holley pump and it's just right when running on 6 volts.

It's a autopulse 500. Its a 2 psi max internally regulated pump. Its a bellows type pump that shuts on and off as fuel is needed. My fuel leaking problems were more a case of worn needles and seats and not sealing against other carb surfaces. Currently the pump is not installed.

Originally Posted by George Miller

Why not try a dist to get it started. Then go back to the mag. Mags have to be set different because of the impulse. Sounds to me like slow timing or vacuum leak.

It's a distributor not a mag.

Originally Posted by Mitch//pa

yes what the others said about coating the gasket,
do a leak down test and make sure you have a strong steady spark

I have great spark, the compression stuff is a new problem. I have had the head on and off over the last few months. I should have copper coated it.

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

....while your at it,...re-run the valves!

Do you mean adjust them?

Originally Posted by Bob C

Have you done a compression check??

Bob

I can't get it to run, it's my understanding that compression checks are done on a hot engine. I can try it though.

Originally Posted by Juggler

Hey Matt

I have a similar set up to you albeit on a B block - SU1R cam, Mallory YA11, repop Winfield head (6.8:1?) with a single 97.

When I first put it back together (it came apart to put a better crank in) I ran it up with the stock distributor and carb (ok, a Tilly). No problems.

When I swapped to the Mallory and the 97 and tried to put some load on it I found it VERY susceptible to timing and had to retard it a fair bit to get it to start. When running on the street then had to retard it further as it would pink/ping/knock. I think that the higher the compression, the hotter the cam the more pernickety it gets. You have both

I've now found the sweet spot after much trial and error. Starts first time every time and I've had it up to just shy of 70mph on the sand at Pendine in the truck in my avatar. That was running a 3.27 rear end and 21's at a calculated 2400 revs. Would like to think it would go a little more on a longer course.

PS - when I was running it up in the test chassis the D/D carb ran ok with a 30 tank/cowl, static under no load. When I swapped the 29 body on I needed a fuel pump even though the head of fuel was only a couple of inches lower. I think it's a 12v Carter pump, now running on 6v for about 2lbs pressure, bought through Sammy at Arizona Model A.

Keep at it. Will be worth it in the end

Cheers

Juggs

Thanks for the encouragement everyone! I'll get the head sealed correctly and report back.

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

....while your at it,...re-run the valves!

Yes,...check the adjustment...
Even with a "not so good" head gasket,...it should blow your
thumb off the hole..

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by George Miller

Why not try a dist to get it started. Then go back to the mag. Mags have to be set different because of the impulse. Sounds to me like slow timing or vacuum leak.

Hey George,
I could be reading things...without my .99 cent CVS glasses, but I think that he IS using a dist, not mag. And, Jim Linder (Bubba) rebuilt it he says ? That dist is one of the better/best, IMO for A/B use

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

Yes,...check the adjustment...
Even with a "not so good" head gasket,...it should blow your
thumb off the hole..

I agree. Make sure you check for sticking valves while you have the head off. Roll it around several times with the hand crank while you watch them. There is several ways to do it, I always check both valves on the same cylinder while its halfway up on the compression stroke.
Good Luck

[Hitchhiker]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
I could be reading things...without my .99 cent CVS glasses, but I think that he IS using a dist, not mag. And, Jim Linder (Bubba) rebuilt it he says ? That dist is one of the better/best, IMO for A/B use

That is correct. Distributor not mag.

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

I agree. Make sure you check for sticking valves while you have the head off. Roll it around several times with the hand crank while you watch them. There is several ways to do it, I always check both valves on the same cylinder while its halfway up on the compression stroke.
Good Luck

Hmm, I wonder if I have adjusted the valves wrong. Very possible as I have never done it before and it was a little confusing to me.

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by Hitchhiker

Hmm, I wonder if I have adjusted the valves wrong. Very possible as I have never done it before and it was a little confusing to me.

Aha! A new clue. Follow Les Andrews very carefully. It is confusing, but if you go step by step you'll be fine. As long as we're xhecking things, do your timing gears match correctly?

[hardtimes]

Hey Hitchiker,
Sounds like you are having tooo much fun, eh !
Man, you have some good/great stuff to play with there and sounds like you got a good basis to work from !
Don't get stressed over this situation, unless you use this as a daily driver and only one you have !
Do ONE thing at a time and ensure that each system is done right, before moving on, i.e.- elect, fuel, mechanical, etc.
That 7:1 head is a great addition, but you must ensure its' proper installation. I'd do both sides of a new Best copper head gasket with few coats of copper coat spray, letting it 'tack' up a little between coats. I'd get the 'big bore' gasket, although you only are .060 over stock. Once you have the head (mechanical) properly installed, plugs adjusted and snugged down, move on to next (fuel/elect) system. Did you use hardened washers under the aluminum head ? Yeah, I'd start with the stock zenith updraft and manifold, if you have such, just to get 'things' (fuel system) dialed in !
Fuel piled up in the intake manifold is normal....when cranking without proper elect and compression (used head gasket )! NO spark and used head gasket equals lots of unburned fuel in engine. If it gets to this point again, crank engine with throttle fully open to allow blow out exhaust (flooded cond). As far as your statement about SLOW cranking speed. Part of mechanical system, is to ensure starter is in top condition. Often times , the starter switch is with crud and burned contacts. This will cause what you describe. I just cleaned my starter contacts yesterday and you may be amazed in difference. It only takes about 15 minutes to take switch off, clean and install ! My B engine is warmed up and HARD to crank, but maybe just getting old, eh

WARNING:
Your using an aluminum head ! Usually , an aluminum head is not torqued down ,IMO,as much as an iron head can be. When properly installed with sealant, you shouldn't need more than 55lbs head torque, IMO. I'd do re-torques often enough to get a solid 55lbs with alum expansion/contraction rates !

Well, you did not say that at first post. That(bad adj) would /could be cause for all that you've experienced thus far..........'the longest I got it to run is FOUR (4) seconds' and 'no compression. Sounds like you've got your main suspect and remedy figured out ...valve adj !!

[Rex_A_Lott]

Hmm, I wonder if I have adjusted the valves wrong. Very possible as I have never done it before and it was a little confusing to me.[/QUOTE]

If it ran at all, not likely you did it completely wrong. They could be off a little, and you might get a little wear, or they could have worked loose.....good reason D.J. suggested checking them.
If they are stuck/sticking, it would help explain the lack of compression.

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by Rex_A_Lott

I always check both valves on the same cylinder while its halfway up on the compression stroke.
Good Luck

Uhhh.........."halfway up on the compression stroke"....

Don't do it that way!!......please..
Do it @ TDC.......make sure it's not on the "overlap".....please, this
would be the less complicated and easiest for the novice...

[George Miller]

Originally Posted by hardtimes

Hey George,
I could be reading things...without my .99 cent CVS glasses, but I think that he IS using a dist, not mag. And, Jim Linder (Bubba) rebuilt it he says ? That dist is one of the better/best, IMO for A/B use

It's a mallory YA 11A supposedly from a combine built from 1938-1940.

My mistake, combines had mags not dist. So I jumped conclusions. I used to work on them in my Dads garage. Mags can be crankie some times.

[lowandslow]

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Hi Hitchhiker,

I don't post here very often mostly because I don't know much and, like yourself, my engine has a few bolt on, non stock items.
That said, firstly, as to your leaking Winfield carb, there are a few fixes: new gaskets, naturally, but also the various mating surfaces are very prone to warping, enough that those joints will leak even with a new gasket in them. Esp. I had trouble with the joint between the top piece and the float chamber, and the joint between the float section and the throat section. Take the carb apart and carefully file those joint surfaces smooth and flat, you will notice that the file begins to remove metal around the holes first. Sometimes this warpage is caused from using a too thick gasket, but also the metal itself is very soft and will warp by itself. No need to remove much metal, just enough to get the surface flat, no more. Bolt the carb back together with new gaskets, no need to tighten the bolts or screws very much as this will lead to more warpage, if you have things flat the leakage should stop.
My Winfield is a downdraft so it sets up fairly high on the engine, most experts say a fuel pump is needed, and that may be so for high performance stuff, hill climbs and the like, but mine runs just fine using gravity flow from the stock tank on a '29 pickup. More pressure from a pump would likely lead to more leaking, so to minimize that I tried it with no pump, and it works. Even at that I had to do some filing on the surfaces as described above to stop leaks. I do run with the float level a little high, that helps to compensate for lack of fuel pressure
As for the Mallory YA-11, I use one of those also. They come with various advance springs in them, but I went with the springs that were in it when I got it on ebay. I set mine so that the first set of points opens at the prescribed time as the stock A distributor and that works just fine, for me at least. If the engine starts easily, doesn't try to kick back when starting , then you are half way there. If the engine doesn't ping or knock at speed, and doesn't run hot from not being advanced enough, then you are pretty good. The big advantage of the dual points is that they will feed current to the coil longer, thus potentially making a hotter spark at high rpms, not a big issue on the A but the Mallorys look nice.
I hope this helps you, it can be simple to fix theses things, sometimes. Bubba's Ignition seems to be slowed down recently, but that would be the best place to get work done on your Mallory if it comes to that.

Good luck,
Tom

[Hitchhiker]

I should clarify that the head is Iron and the gasket was new, just sitting on a shelf for a long time. I have used sealer before. I don't know why I didn't this time. to much of a rush I guess. Also all the valves visibly are not stuck when I turned it over by hand with the head off. which was a few days ago.

I just tried something weird on advice from a friend. I took the exhaust off at the manifold and held my hand to it. It almost feels like it is sucking in? That seems to indictate to me that the valves are open to long or staying slightly open? But I am unsure...

I have a new Best head gasket that I will have this afternoon, I will re install it with coppercoat or Hylomar and redo the valves.

[Hitchhiker]

Originally Posted by George Miller

It's a mallory YA 11A supposedly from a combine built from 1938-1940.

My mistake, combines had mags not dist. So I jumped conclusions. I used to work on them in my Dads garage. Mags can be crankie some times.

No problem I can see how you figured that from the information provided. I can't verify that is was true or not, just something I read when researching the distributor.

[Hitchhiker]

Originally Posted by lowandslow

Hi Hitchhiker,

I don't post here very often mostly because I don't know much and, like yourself, my engine has a few bolt on, non stock items.
That said, firstly, as to your leaking Winfield carb, there are a few fixes: new gaskets, naturally, but also the various mating surfaces are very prone to warping, enough that those joints will leak even with a new gasket in them. Esp. I had trouble with the joint between the top piece and the float chamber, and the joint between the float section and the throat section. Take the carb apart and carefully file those joint surfaces smooth and flat, you will notice that the file begins to remove metal around the holes first. Sometimes this warpage is caused from using a too thick gasket, but also the metal itself is very soft and will warp by itself. No need to remove much metal, just enough to get the surface flat, no more. Bolt the carb back together with new gaskets, no need to tighten the bolts or screws very much as this will lead to more warpage, if you have things flat the leakage should stop.
My Winfield is a downdraft so it sets up fairly high on the engine, most experts say a fuel pump is needed, and that may be so for high performance stuff, hill climbs and the like, but mine runs just fine using gravity flow from the stock tank on a '29 pickup. More pressure from a pump would likely lead to more leaking, so to minimize that I tried it with no pump, and it works. Even at that I had to do some filing on the surfaces as described above to stop leaks. I do run with the float level a little high, that helps to compensate for lack of fuel pressure
As for the Mallory YA-11, I use one of those also. They come with various advance springs in them, but I went with the springs that were in it when I got it on ebay. I set mine so that the first set of points opens at the prescribed time as the stock A distributor and that works just fine, for me at least. If the engine starts easily, doesn't try to kick back when starting , then you are half way there. If the engine doesn't ping or knock at speed, and doesn't run hot from not being advanced enough, then you are pretty good. The big advantage of the dual points is that they will feed current to the coil longer, thus potentially making a hotter spark at high rpms, not a big issue on the A but the Mallorys look nice.
I hope this helps you, it can be simple to fix theses things, sometimes. Bubba's Ignition seems to be slowed down recently, but that would be the best place to get work done on your Mallory if it comes to that.

Good luck,
Tom

Thanks for the advice. Mine is a B downdraft. I actually took it all apart. glued a piece of wet sand paper to a flat piece of glass and poured ATF on it and started moving all the pieces I needed flat in a figure 8 pattern. On the parts you can't flat plate sand I used valve lapping compound and rubbed the parts together. I had some pretty major wear on the fuel inlet valve and it wasn't sealing. But I had another from a parts carb that I made work. I also had to fix the end of the idle air metering valve and the mid and high as they were damaged as well. It has new gaskets in it. I haven't tried it yet.But I am feeling pretty confident this time.

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by Hitchhiker

I should clarify that the head is Iron and the gasket was new, just sitting on a shelf for a long time. I have used sealer before. I don't know why I didn't this time. to much of a rush I guess. Also all the valves visibly are not stuck when I turned it over by hand with the head off. which was a few days ago.
Did this engine RUN before you started messing with it?

I just tried something weird on advice from a friend. I took the exhaust off at the manifold and held my hand to it. It almost feels like it is sucking in? That seems to indictate to me that the valves are open to long or staying slightly open? But I am unsure...
That is possible,...Did you have the cam or crank out of the engine?
Did you change the cam / crank gears?

I have a new Best head gasket that I will have this afternoon, I will re install it with coppercoat or Hylomar and redo the valves.

Don't use Hylomar! Use coppercoat!

Before you go any farther,...answer the 2 above questions, please.
Also,...what else did you do OR someone else do to this engine?

[lowandslow]

Hitchiker,

The method for flattening you used is much more professional and shop worthy than what I described, better to do it the way you describe.
Good luck, you're almost there.

Tom

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

Uhhh.........."halfway up on the compression stroke"....

Don't do it that way!!......please..
Do it @ TDC.......make sure it's not on the "overlap".....please, this
would be the less complicated and easiest for the novice...

I thought that WOULD be the easiest for the beginner...you can do it any time after you see the intake shut, and you know its on the base of the cam. Why waste time fiddle-fucking around trying to find TDC on each cylinder? Like I said in the other posts, there is lots of ways to do it...that is just mine. Good Luck

[Hitchhiker]

Originally Posted by d.j. moordigian

Don't use Hylomar! Use coppercoat!

Before you go any farther,...answer the 2 above questions, please.
Also,...what else did you do OR someone else do to this engine?

This engine has not run before.

I changed out the cam and put a brass gear with matched crank gear from Dan I can't remember his last name.... I indexed the cam, and set the valves.


Does anyone have a good link to the valve adjustment procedure? Or do I need to buy a book?

[Hitchhiker]

this is the one I used

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ruleofnine.htm

I should also mention it is a B cam if that matters.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Originally Posted by Hitchhiker

this is the one I used

http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/ruleofnine.htm

I should also mention it is a B cam if that matters.

In the first post you say it's a Winfield su1 cam?

[Hitchhiker]

Originally Posted by Chuck Sea/Tac

In the first post you say it's a Winfield su1 cam?

Sorry it's a SUIA cam profile on a original B cam. It's my understanding that the lobe separation angle is different than the A's?

does it make a difference when adjusting?

[CarlG]

Any chance you could hook up with an engine guru from one of the local clubs? That's been my best source of help when I get into a pickle like this. Fortunately, Jim lives only 2 blocks from me!

[Rex_A_Lott]

Originally Posted by Hitchhiker

Sorry it's a SUIA cam profile on a original B cam. It's my understanding that the lobe separation angle is different than the A's?

does it make a difference when adjusting?

Forget about the LSA. Its ground in, you cant change it now. The rule of nines will work, but you have to keep track of where you are at.
Forget all of that. Check the lash on the base circle of the cam, in other words, when its shut. If its not correct, crank it around so you can adjust it, then crank it back around to check it again. After a few rounds of this you will pay more attention and eventually get it right.
Good Luck.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I hope you have valve lifters with a large enough diameter so the lobes don't stike the edge of the lifters. This can wipe out the cam and lifters in short order.

Study the valve opening and closing for one cylinder as you hand crank the enigne, and you should be able to tell if the camshaft is timed correctly to the crankshaft. At the end of the exhaust stroke the exhaust valve should be ALMOST closed, and the intake valve should be just a little open. This is known as valve overlap, and the exhaust gas rushing out of the cylinder helps pull in the new air/gas mixture. So if they have the overlap right at the top of the piston travel on the exhaust stroke, then the timing marks must be properly matched.

[tbirdtbird]

I'm with Tom W on checking the cam timing....you said "I indexed the cam"; how certain are you of what was done? Especially since you say "It almost feels like it is sucking in? " at the exhaust

We can argue all day whether to check compression hot or cold. However, cold there should be very decent compression with this 7:1 head.
So, once your valves are set for sure, and you have the head on the best you can, it would be very much worth the 5 min to check the compression before you get gas and spark anywhere near this engine. Those compression readings will tell you boatloads about where you are in the process so far. I feel as though you should easily be getting 60 psi

Have you worked on engines before this?

wonder if Jim Brierley has any thoughts

Help from a local club member would be invaluable, despite the fancy stuff

[Bob Johnson]

Here is a graph of the valve lift. As you can see there is a slight overlap of the exhaust and intake valves when the exhaust valve is closing and the intake valve is opening. This overlap occurs when the piston reaches top dead center. So you can rotate the engine until the piston is just about at the top of the stroke. Since the crankshaft rotates 2 revolutions for each 1 revolution of the camshaft there are 2 positions that the valves will be in when the piston is a the top of the cylinder. The first case is when the spark plug is ready to fire. In this first case the intake valve will have just closed and the exhaust valve will have been close for about one crankshaft revolution. If you then rotate the engine one revolution you will see the exhaust valve start opening as the piston comes to the bottom of the cylinder. As the piston moves up the exhaust valve will fully open and then close as the piston reaches the top of the cylinder. At this time the intake valve will start to open. If your valves are not behaving like this then you camshaft timing is not correct.

[d.j. moordigian]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

I'm with Tom W on checking the cam timing....you said "I indexed the cam"; how certain are you of what was done? Especially since you say "It almost feels like it is sucking in? " at the exhaust

We can argue all day whether to check compression hot or cold. However, cold there should be very decent compression with this 7:1 head.

Have you worked on engines before this?

Thank you Tbird...

" HITCHHIKER ".........verify the cam timing,....are they both in the correct place?

[Hitchhiker]

I have not done much engine work before. I actually wasn't the one to index the cam,it was my uncle. He's forgotten more than I will ever know....

then I did the valve adjustment. I know he wants me to figure this out on my own, and I would like to, so I haven't asked him for help yet.

Will check the valve timing.

Also I should add that the lifters are adjustables. Not A lifters.

[Tom Wesenberg]

You have to be careful when timing the gears because some books show the cam gear in alignment with a line straight up from the left side of the keyway, but it is correct when it's lined up to the RIGHT side of the keyway.
This is easy to remember, RIGHT is RIGHT

[Gino]

Twice bitten twice shy. I partially rebuilt two model a engines and both times starting was difficult and both tomes it turned out to be the oil rings. Even though everything measured out 60 over the rings were too tight in the cylinders. Make sure the engine can be turned with a torque wrench at 35 pounds with no compression. Take the plugs out. There is a big story I could tell as to why this happened but I'm keeping it short.

[Hitchhiker]

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I have confirmed that my valves are not sealing when closed on the compression stroke.

I am going to adjust them right now, wish me luck.

[colin1928]

Good luck Matt
go slow and you will get it
Colin

[tbirdtbird]

whatever became of this project? So often we post our brains out then never get feedback......

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Hitchhiker

I have not done much engine work before. I actually wasn't the one to index the cam,it was my uncle. He's forgotten more than I will ever know....

then I did the valve adjustment. I know he wants me to figure this out on my own, and I would like to, so I haven't asked him for help yet.

Will check the valve timing.

Also I should add that the lifters are adjustables. Not A lifters.

If you never did this before, I would think your grandfather would want to be there to teach you or at least watch to make sure the correct clearance is given each valve.