The Ford Barn

Straw530 · 10-20-2019, 07:16 PM

Still new to Model A's, and am having an issue, so I thought I would check with you guys to see if there is an obvious answer. I drove the car today on a little trip about 50 miles each way. Ran good until I was a couple of miles from home, and it started to sputter, and then backfire. It finally got so bad, that I had to pull it home. I had just put the manifold back on with a new gasket after having it planed. I had adjusted the points to .20, and put in new plugs and a coil. To me, it is acting very lean, but I have fuel at the carb and the glass in line filter is full. Is it ignition? I did notice when I adjusted the points, that they seem too closed. I had to open them up to get to .20. Could the points be bad? I am not very good with ignition either! Thanks in advance.

garyjohn · 10-20-2019, 07:31 PM

did you have the gav open enough to get enough fuel in the carb

jm29henry · 10-20-2019, 08:25 PM

I believe you might have a bad condenser cheep fix it just happens

Purdy Swoft · 10-20-2019, 08:28 PM

I'm wondering if the problem is modern points and condenser

The foreign condensers that most offer for use with V8 points are not very reliable

I notice that the list of parts that you replaced doesn't include the condenser .

My guess is a bad condenser .

Floats · 10-21-2019, 05:08 AM

Have you retorqued the manifold?

Straw530 · 10-21-2019, 05:32 AM

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I did retorque the manifold after a short drive. (Once it had cooled again) Are the points and condenser for this something I can get at the parts store, or do I need to go to a Model a site to get the? Thank you

Patrick L. · 10-21-2019, 05:43 AM

You'll probably have to go to a Model A site to get your parts, especially if they are original type points/condenser. Modern type points/condenser are Ford V8 and could be bought/ordered from a good parts store. [ get the expensive ones].

My original thought was fuel delivery, did you try opening the fuel cap ? It could be a venting issue. Actually it could be several issues, which have been covered.

chap52 · 10-21-2019, 07:06 AM

Had a similar adventure and found that my gas cap vent wasn't working. This will cause the car to backfire, sputter and stop because fuel cannot flow due to a vacuum condition in the fuel tank.
When this happens open your gas cap and if you hear a "swish" of air it is plugged. Put the cap back on loosely and drive home. I was 50 miles from home and it ran well all the way back.
You can use a small piece of wire to determine if the vent in the cap is clear. I also drilled another hole in mine just in case... Chap

Fhane · 10-21-2019, 07:20 AM

Check the water in the radiator. It’s may have overheated.

Keith True · 10-21-2019, 09:45 AM

Is there a main fuse in the system? If you are running a stock generator and cutout,and that blows,the generator will put out up to 40 volts,that will give you some pretty spectacular backfires.

Big hammer · 10-21-2019, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straw530

Still new to Model A's, and am having an issue, so I thought I would check with you guys to see if there is an obvious answer. I drove the car today on a little trip about 50 miles each way. Ran good until I was a couple of miles from home, and it started to sputter, and then backfire. It finally got so bad, that I had to pull it home. I had just put the manifold back on with a new gasket after having it planed. I had adjusted the points to .20, and put in new plugs and a coil. To me, it is acting very lean, but I have fuel at the carb and the glass in line filter is full. Is it ignition? I did notice when I adjusted the points, that they seem too closed. I had to open them up to get to .20. Could the points be bad? I am not very good with ignition either! Thanks in advance.

You have fuel at the carb, check if fuel is in the carb. Remove the carb drain to see if you have fuel flowing through!

Straw530 · 10-21-2019, 06:52 PM

I did take the plug out of the bowl. I had fuel flowing steady there. I did not check the cap, but I will try that as well. Wish I didn't have to work so I could do more on it!

1931 flamingo · 10-22-2019, 01:59 PM

Funny how "work" gets in the way of our personnel lives, even when retired.
Paul in CT

1crosscut · 10-22-2019, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Straw530

Still new to Model A's, and am having an issue, so I thought I would check with you guys to see if there is an obvious answer. I drove the car today on a little trip about 50 miles each way. Ran good until I was a couple of miles from home, and it started to sputter, and then backfire. It finally got so bad, that I had to pull it home. I had just put the manifold back on with a new gasket after having it planed. I had adjusted the points to .20, and put in new plugs and a coil. To me, it is acting very lean, but I have fuel at the carb and the glass in line filter is full. Is it ignition? I did notice when I adjusted the points, that they seem too closed. I had to open them up to get to .20. Could the points be bad? I am not very good with ignition either! Thanks in advance.

Had a situation like yours once. The gap in the block that holds the movable points didn't have a large enough of a gap to allow it to squeeze the movable point enough to hold it in place. I had to remove the movable point and sand the gap larger to allow it to squeeze the movable point so it wouldn't move. So if you check your point gap again and it is not right check the gap in the point block.

Straw530 · 10-22-2019, 05:48 PM

Thank you. Not totally sure I follow, but I will check it out. Especially if the points are off again. I did order points and condenser for it as well.

1crosscut · 10-22-2019, 07:36 PM

Sorry I didn't explain that too clearly.
Basically if the contact point that screws in and out of to make the adjustment can't be clamped down on hard enough to hold it in place you will need to remove some material in the slot of the part that holds it to give it more room to squeeze down on it.
Clear as mud I'm sure.

katy · 10-23-2019, 10:54 AM

I had a problem w/a new B distributor cam that had a rough surface and wore the points rubbing block down quite quickly. I never thought to inspect the cam when I installed it, just assumed it was as smooth as it should have been.

Purdy Swoft · 10-23-2019, 11:05 AM

Stipe machine offers the best and most acurate distributor cam on the market for the model A and B engines .

Patrick L. · 10-23-2019, 05:04 PM

If this monster still won't start I'd suggest a compression check. I'm wondering if a back fire happens to damage the cam gear.

Straw530 · 10-24-2019, 05:45 AM

I was actually wondering about that cam gear, because I had to open up the points to gap them. I was wondering if it was wearing down. I just need to get in the shop! Stupid work!
Thanks again for the ideas

1928Mik · 10-24-2019, 08:27 AM

I agree with Purdy. Same problem happened with mine. Swapped coil, not the issue. New condenser solved it.

Marshall V. Daut · 10-24-2019, 08:29 AM

"I was wondering if it was wearing down"
Have you checked your private messages on this website? I sent you message a few minutes after you posted your question with this same advice: check the rubbing block on the points. New points are not very good quality (unless you find NOS points), so the rubbing block wears down in the first 100 miles, closing up the point gap. After that time, the block doesn't wear much more. I suggested you re-gap the points to 0.020" and keep an eye on them. Be sure to rub Vasoline or distributor cam gear grease on the cam to lubricate it. I suspect a worn rubbing block on new points is why your points closed up.
Marshall

Straw530 · 10-25-2019, 05:05 AM

I wasn't aware of private messages. I will check the points gap again as well, to see if that is an issue. I had only put about 125 or so miles on since the last time I had gapped them, but I will see. I did not lube the cam however. Still learning as I go! Hopefully tonight or tomorrow after I get home, I can work on it and have a result. Thank you.

Straw530 · 10-27-2019, 09:55 PM

So I got looking at it this afternoon. The pad on the points arm had wore down and closed the points. I then took the points out and reinstalled. I now don't have spark when I ground the coil wire and open the points. I am thinking maybe they need to be cleaned or something else. My question is though, do I need to re time the car? When I pulled the cam off, to remove the plate, I thought there would be a flat spot or something to retain it's position. Hope it's not too dumb a question, I am pretty new to these and have never been good at ignition! Thanks

History · 10-28-2019, 06:47 AM

Straw, make sure to check for fouled plugs. Mine weren't exactly fuzzy black but powdery black? They were still fouled to the point I thought it was carburetor problems instead. I'm sure the mechanics back in the day and the smart ones now have a concrete place to start diagnosing problems. It's easy to go down many rabbit holes.

I was sure mine was the carburetor and believe it did need adjustment in one way or another but I think my main problem was fouled plugs. Good luck and make sure to tell us what it turns out to be.

wmws · 10-28-2019, 08:49 AM

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Yes you need to retime the car any time you take the points cam off. But now you have no spark? With the key on and holding the coil wire about a quarter inch from a head bolt open and close the points. You should have spark at the coil wire.

31Tudor · 10-28-2019, 09:20 AM

Before you jump in replacing parts, with either a test light or volt meter, start seeing where you have power. With the key off, you should have power both sides of the coil. With the key on, you should have power to the points. If you don't, then start checking around the switch, be sure nothing is touching or grounding out in the distributor. Be sure the point pigtail wire is not grounding out on the upper plate or the side of the distributor body.

katy · 10-28-2019, 09:53 AM

Quote:

With the key on, you should have power to the points.

Only if the points are open!

10-20-2019, 07:16 PM	#1
Straw530 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 22	Model A backfire, can't move Still new to Model A's, and am having an issue, so I thought I would check with you guys to see if there is an obvious answer. I drove the car today on a little trip about 50 miles each way. Ran good until I was a couple of miles from home, and it started to sputter, and then backfire. It finally got so bad, that I had to pull it home. I had just put the manifold back on with a new gasket after having it planed. I had adjusted the points to .20, and put in new plugs and a coil. To me, it is acting very lean, but I have fuel at the carb and the glass in line filter is full. Is it ignition? I did notice when I adjusted the points, that they seem too closed. I had to open them up to get to .20. Could the points be bad? I am not very good with ignition either! Thanks in advance.

10-20-2019, 07:31 PM	#2
garyjohn Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Big Pine,CA Posts: 161	Re: Model A backfire, can't move did you have the gav open enough to get enough fuel in the carb

10-20-2019, 08:25 PM	#3
jm29henry Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: michigan Posts: 1,126	Re: Model A backfire, can't move I believe you might have a bad condenser cheep fix it just happens

10-20-2019, 08:28 PM	#4
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Model A backfire, can't move I'm wondering if the problem is modern points and condenser The foreign condensers that most offer for use with V8 points are not very reliable I notice that the list of parts that you replaced doesn't include the condenser . My guess is a bad condenser .

10-21-2019, 05:08 AM	#5
Floats Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Mossel Bay, about 300km from Cape Town Posts: 530	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Have you retorqued the manifold? __________________ Regards Chris Cape Town 28 Model A RPU, 29 Chevy Phaeton, 67 E Type FHC, 67 250SL Pagoda, 83 911 SC

10-21-2019, 05:32 AM	#6
Straw530 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 22	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I did retorque the manifold after a short drive. (Once it had cooled again) Are the points and condenser for this something I can get at the parts store, or do I need to go to a Model a site to get the? Thank you

10-21-2019, 05:43 AM	#7
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Model A backfire, can't move You'll probably have to go to a Model A site to get your parts, especially if they are original type points/condenser. Modern type points/condenser are Ford V8 and could be bought/ordered from a good parts store. [ get the expensive ones]. My original thought was fuel delivery, did you try opening the fuel cap ? It could be a venting issue. Actually it could be several issues, which have been covered.

10-21-2019, 07:06 AM	#8
chap52 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Marana Arizona Posts: 1,776	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Had a similar adventure and found that my gas cap vent wasn't working. This will cause the car to backfire, sputter and stop because fuel cannot flow due to a vacuum condition in the fuel tank. When this happens open your gas cap and if you hear a "swish" of air it is plugged. Put the cap back on loosely and drive home. I was 50 miles from home and it ran well all the way back. You can use a small piece of wire to determine if the vent in the cap is clear. I also drilled another hole in mine just in case... Chap

10-21-2019, 07:20 AM	#9
Fhane Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Stuart Florida Posts: 147	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Check the water in the radiator. It’s may have overheated.

10-21-2019, 09:45 AM	#10
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,985	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Is there a main fuse in the system? If you are running a stock generator and cutout,and that blows,the generator will put out up to 40 volts,that will give you some pretty spectacular backfires.

10-21-2019, 06:52 PM	#12
Straw530 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 22	Re: Model A backfire, can't move I did take the plug out of the bowl. I had fuel flowing steady there. I did not check the cap, but I will try that as well. Wish I didn't have to work so I could do more on it!

10-22-2019, 01:59 PM	#13
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Funny how "work" gets in the way of our personnel lives, even when retired. Paul in CT

10-22-2019, 05:48 PM	#15
Straw530 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 22	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Thank you. Not totally sure I follow, but I will check it out. Especially if the points are off again. I did order points and condenser for it as well.

10-22-2019, 07:36 PM	#16
1crosscut Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Lincoln, Nebraska Posts: 1,907	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Sorry I didn't explain that too clearly. Basically if the contact point that screws in and out of to make the adjustment can't be clamped down on hard enough to hold it in place you will need to remove some material in the slot of the part that holds it to give it more room to squeeze down on it. Clear as mud I'm sure. __________________ Dave / Lincoln Nebraska

10-23-2019, 10:54 AM	#17
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,042	Re: Model A backfire, can't move I had a problem w/a new B distributor cam that had a rough surface and wore the points rubbing block down quite quickly. I never thought to inspect the cam when I installed it, just assumed it was as smooth as it should have been. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

10-23-2019, 11:05 AM	#18
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Stipe machine offers the best and most acurate distributor cam on the market for the model A and B engines .

10-23-2019, 05:04 PM	#19
Patrick L. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Largo Florida Posts: 7,225	Re: Model A backfire, can't move If this monster still won't start I'd suggest a compression check. I'm wondering if a back fire happens to damage the cam gear.

10-24-2019, 05:45 AM	#20
Straw530 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 22	Re: Model A backfire, can't move I was actually wondering about that cam gear, because I had to open up the points to gap them. I was wondering if it was wearing down. I just need to get in the shop! Stupid work! Thanks again for the ideas

10-24-2019, 08:27 AM	#21
1928Mik Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Zanesville Ohio USA Posts: 267	Re: Model A backfire, can't move I agree with Purdy. Same problem happened with mine. Swapped coil, not the issue. New condenser solved it. __________________ 1928 Niagara Blue Phaeton 1972 Olds 442 Convertible 1979 MGB -Life's Too Short To Drive Boring Cars-

10-24-2019, 08:29 AM	#22
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,109	Re: Model A backfire, can't move "I was wondering if it was wearing down" Have you checked your private messages on this website? I sent you message a few minutes after you posted your question with this same advice: check the rubbing block on the points. New points are not very good quality (unless you find NOS points), so the rubbing block wears down in the first 100 miles, closing up the point gap. After that time, the block doesn't wear much more. I suggested you re-gap the points to 0.020" and keep an eye on them. Be sure to rub Vasoline or distributor cam gear grease on the cam to lubricate it. I suspect a worn rubbing block on new points is why your points closed up. Marshall

10-25-2019, 05:05 AM	#23
Straw530 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 22	Re: Model A backfire, can't move I wasn't aware of private messages. I will check the points gap again as well, to see if that is an issue. I had only put about 125 or so miles on since the last time I had gapped them, but I will see. I did not lube the cam however. Still learning as I go! Hopefully tonight or tomorrow after I get home, I can work on it and have a result. Thank you.

10-27-2019, 09:55 PM	#24
Straw530 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2019 Posts: 22	Re: Model A backfire, can't move So I got looking at it this afternoon. The pad on the points arm had wore down and closed the points. I then took the points out and reinstalled. I now don't have spark when I ground the coil wire and open the points. I am thinking maybe they need to be cleaned or something else. My question is though, do I need to re time the car? When I pulled the cam off, to remove the plate, I thought there would be a flat spot or something to retain it's position. Hope it's not too dumb a question, I am pretty new to these and have never been good at ignition! Thanks

10-28-2019, 06:47 AM	#25
History Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: NC Mountains Posts: 689	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Straw, make sure to check for fouled plugs. Mine weren't exactly fuzzy black but powdery black? They were still fouled to the point I thought it was carburetor problems instead. I'm sure the mechanics back in the day and the smart ones now have a concrete place to start diagnosing problems. It's easy to go down many rabbit holes. I was sure mine was the carburetor and believe it did need adjustment in one way or another but I think my main problem was fouled plugs. Good luck and make sure to tell us what it turns out to be.

10-28-2019, 08:49 AM	#26
wmws BANNED Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Coatesville, Pa Posts: 719	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Yes you need to retime the car any time you take the points cam off. But now you have no spark? With the key on and holding the coil wire about a quarter inch from a head bolt open and close the points. You should have spark at the coil wire.

10-28-2019, 09:20 AM	#27
31Tudor Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 611	Re: Model A backfire, can't move Before you jump in replacing parts, with either a test light or volt meter, start seeing where you have power. With the key off, you should have power both sides of the coil. With the key on, you should have power to the points. If you don't, then start checking around the switch, be sure nothing is touching or grounding out in the distributor. Be sure the point pigtail wire is not grounding out on the upper plate or the side of the distributor body.