"Lift Start" TIG welder...

[PeteVS]

Stopped by the welding supply place yesterday and they told me about "lift start" TIG welders where you touch the electrode to the work piece and the arc starts when you withdraw it. Anyone using this type of machine? Sounds like it would be better than sliced bread to me but I'd like to hear first hand experience from a couple of you folks. Thanks!

[51 MERC-CT]

Originally Posted by PeteVS

Stopped by the welding supply place yesterday and they told me about "lift start" TIG welders where you touch the electrode to the work piece and the arc starts when you withdraw it. Anyone using this type of machine? Sounds like it would be better than sliced bread to me but I'd like to hear first hand experience from a couple of you folks. Thanks!

Had one once. Think was a pulse Tig made in Italy. Would only get one again if it had variable amp foot control.

[skidmarks]

Nothing new. Its also called scratch start. You can hook a tig torch up to any dc welder and do the same thing. Common for feild work off a gas powered machine.
Just remember the tungsten is always "hot" and you need a torch with a on off valve for the gas. Amps are set at the machine with no up or down

Ok for mild steel or stainless . You need ac with high freq for aluminum.

[PeteVS]

Originally Posted by skidmarks

Just remember the tungsten is always "hot" and you need a torch with a on off valve for the gas.

OK- So there's no gas valve in the box to start gas flow when the arc strikes?

[Karl Wolf]

The way it works as I understand- it on my machine, you touch the tungsten to the work. Then turn up the power, (the gas comes on) pull up the tungsten and voila', you have an arc.
Karl

[51 MERC-CT]

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As I recall mine had a trigger that made it hot and turned on the gas. It was not always hot.

[fordy_nine]

"Lift Start" or "scratch start" isn't a feature, It's the lack of a feature, namely high-frequency start. The tungsten electrode is slightly contaminated each time you scratch it to the workpiece......Bob L

[Ronnie]

Lift start and scratch start are two different cats.As an example scratch start has the tungsten voltage hot all the time and you can start the arc like striking a match has been done many times you can also strike on a piece of copper to lessen contamination,and then move over to the weld area.Lift start that is on modern tig's doesn't require the same start voltages it uses low voltage to detect the touch at start point.I used a miller lift are for a long time on a max star 151 inverter.When you lift the torch a very small arc starts and grows bigger as you use the foot pedal.There is a very soft start.You then carry on from there.My new machine dynasty 200dx is both lift start and hi freq stars.Lift arc is an ok feature much better than scratch starts are.And yes lift start is a feature that is patented by some mfgs.Scratch start is what is actually is just scratch start.Not a feature at all like lift arc start is.

R

[Zeke...PA]

There are many videos of TIG on You tube, shows scratch, lift, ,high frequency, etc. they have versions available with automatic gas valve. I have a HF DC TIG unit, but I need more practice find myself using the MIG more often. TIG is practice, practice but once you get it down it is cleaner with softer weld but slower than MIG. Zeke
http://welding-tv.com/

[joel]

I had an inverter scratch start and found it difficult, but I was just learning tig. I finally gave up and bought a Miller with high freq and AC. All my diffulties, except vision, went away. And you do still need to practice.

[skidmarks]

Just depends on what type of machine you are using.

[296 V8]

I have that on the Dynasty 350 I use at work … I never use it.
IMO
An average person that doesn’t use this stuff all day long everyday can never remember what’s what ... they’ve made it to complicated

[skidmarks]

If you want to do it right buy one with hi-freq . Some of the little inverters have a"hot start" that helps sorta like a slope.
Get down to it. Your not suppose to touch the tungsten to anything. And if you want to be able to weld anything your going to spend a lot to have all the right stuff.

[JWL]

I agree. The ONLY way to go for all-around TIG is high-freq. Often a delicate assembly can be tacked together with little or no clamping when using the high-freq. start. Some such work would be impossible using other methods. Too, I agree the electrode should never contact the work.

[PeteVS]

Well, I considering trying TIG just for light gauge steel body work (patch panels, etc.) I may wind up renting one of the Miller Max Stars or whatever for a week and see if I can get what I want done or if it would be a worthwhile purchase down the road. Thanks, gentlemen for all your comments and concerns!

[Ronnie]

Here is a cut and paste from miller website.

Note that inverter-based TIG machines offer an "HF start only" feature that provides a brief burst of HF at the start of the weld. Inverter-based machines do not experience as much difficulty with arc starts or arc stumbling because the machine operates so quickly. In fact, all good inverters eliminate the need for continuous HF when AC welding on aluminum and other non-ferrous metals.
Other starting methods, such as Lift-Arc™, have been developed to avoid scratching the electrode. Scratch starts may contaminate the weld with tungsten, but welds made with the Lift-Arc starting method can consistently pass x-ray or ultrasonic tests. Lift-Arc enables the operator to touch the tungsten to the work piece, lift it off the work piece, and then have full welding current begin flowing. With the scratch start method, the electrode is hot the instant it touches metal.

Also read post #5 http://www.millerwelds.com/resources...-scratch-start

R