Pinion assembly installation

[31 RPU]

Does anyone have an old torque tube flange I could purchase to press in a pinion assembly? Picture below I borrowed from Tom Endy.

[Charlie Stephens]

You would probably get a better response if you added your general location to your profile.

Charlie Stephens

[redmodelt]

You don't need to press it in. Get a hot plate and 3/4-1" thick chunk of steel. Put the steel on the hot plate and set the housing on it. Turn the hot plate to high and allow the housing to get good and hot. The pinion bearing race will drop right in. Allow to cool. Install the first bearing on the pinion, then install that assembly on the driveshaft, torque nut to specks. Slide into the race and install 2ed bearing and set to 18" pounds using the lock nuts and washer.

[31 RPU]

Thanks redmodelt but all I am doing is changing the driveshaft to install a Mitchell OD.
I don’t want to disturb the pre load. All I want to do is mount the pinion assembly on the stub shaft and then press the pinion assembly/stub shaft back into the banjo. The flange off of a torque tube (like in the picture) looks to be the simplest way to do this.

[jw hash]

where are you located. there should be someone close by that have what you need. I just through five torque tubes in the scrap pile. the question is how are you going to remove the bearing.

[Joe K]

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I think I used a "bridge puller" using a pair of 1/2" threaded rod 6 feet long. The bridge was oak.

I later used the oak/cut rods as a bridge pull to compress the rear spring and remove it from the axle. (I don't own a spring compressor - yet)

You only need it once - and all-thread ALWAYS finds another use with a mechanic.

Joe K

[31 RPU]

I made some tools like Tom Endy does his with.
I am not a machinist but I am learning.

[redmodelt]

Ok I see what you are doing. How far would the stub shaft stick out of the shorten Mitchell tube? You could use the Mitchell tube and turn the shaft or turn the axles to rotate the ring gear to get your alignment. With no lube in the rear, turning the axles should rotate the ring gear.

[Jim Brierley]

Heat the case with a torch, concentrating on the front end. It should take a minimum amount of heat before the bearings will slip in place.

[31 RPU]

Stub shaft won’t be very long as this is in a Victoria and will be very close to the rear end.
I think I will have to use all threads and nuts to draw the pinion in because the threads are very shallow for bolts. I guess I could heat it up but I liked the idea of using the flange off of a torque tube.

[redmodelt]

As far as I know Mitchell only makes one base unit for the A's. The shafts and tubes are adjusted in length for what car it installed in. You could use the connecting sleeve to get extra length.

Bolts would not work. You would need ether bolts with full thread with nuts and washers run up them before installing in the flange or all-thread cut to length.

[Tom Endy]

I suspect that you removed a torque tube during the process of installing the Mitchell overdrive. Use the torque tube to pull the pinion assembly into the banjo. You will need to make some threaded studs as the bolts are not long enough.


The only reason I cut the end off a torque tube is to make an easier tool to deal with. A full length torque tube works as well.


Tom Endy

[Tom Endy]

Originally Posted by redmodelt

As far as I know Mitchell only makes one base unit for the A's. The shafts and tubes are adjusted in length for what car it installed in. You could use the connecting sleeve to get extra length.

Bolts would not work. You would need ether bolts with full thread with nuts and washers run up them before installing in the flange or all-thread cut to length.

The Mitchell company makes three different overdrives for the Model A. Their standard fits most Model A's. The one for the Victoria has a stub shaft that is 4.5 inches longer to locate the overdrive housing forward of the dropped floor pan. The third has a shorter stub shaft to accommodate later town sedans that have a floor pan for tool storage under the front seat. You can also order the overdrive with a 26% gear ratio and a 33% gear ratio.


Tom Endy

[31 RPU]

Originally Posted by Tom Endy

The Mitchell company makes three different overdrives for the Model A. Their standard fits most Model A's. The one for the Victoria has a stub shaft that is 4.5 inches longer to locate the overdrive housing forward of the dropped floor pan. The third has a shorter stub shaft to accommodate later town sedans that have a floor pan for tool storage under the front seat. You can also order the overdrive with a 26% gear ratio and a 33% gear ratio.


Tom Endy

Tom,
I guess I got that one wrong. The overdrive is positioned 4.5” towards the front of the car so the stub shaft is longer.
I still like the idea of a torque tube flange to do the job. So far it doesn’t look like anybody has one they would want to sell. I will hold on a little longer to see if one turns up.
Thanks for all the suggestions.

[31 RPU]

I will need to press this pinion assembly back into the banjo.
Does anyone have an old torque tube I could buy the flange off of?

[Dodge]

Yes. Check your PM

[larrys40]

Originally Posted by 31 RPU

I will need to press this pinion assembly back into the banjo.
Does anyone have an old torque tube I could buy the flange off of?

I see your banjo housing is the 28 style. They were disconntinued as they were a two piece with the front flange welded on and they commonly leak and are weaker than the ribbed reinforced style. I would recommend just going the extra distance in work to disassemble the rear axle since you have that style housing that will have some extra weight on it, and do not know the condition of the rest of your bearings,races, and components.

Just my suggestion. If I don't know who or have knowledge of what the rear axle is like and you're installing an overdrive to go a little faster I believe it is very prudent to ensure the rest of the rear is top notch.

Have done many myself and the worst rear axle I tore apart condition wise was on a "restored" car.
Just my take.

Larry Shepard

[31 RPU]

Larry,
Thanks for the information. I was not going to use this housing. I have a 31 rear end I was going to put the overdrive in. I appreciate the information, I didn’t know that.

[31 RPU]

Originally Posted by Dodge

Yes. Check your PM

Thanks Dodge.

[Benson]

Larry,

Restored is ALL about a guy's definition of the term!!

A couple of years ago a friend was asked to help and take a greasy engine and transmission to the quarter car wash.

While at car wash this guy bragged that he had restored 25 Model As.

When they returned to this guy's shop with washed and still assembled engine/transmission my friend asked "do you want to put it on the work bench?"

Old guy:

Oh no I am behind schedule ... let's put it in the paint booth ... I am going to paint it in the morning and install it in the chassis the next day!

[larrys40]

Benson,
That is a funny but all too often true story.... I worked on one last week at one of the local car musuems the previous owner did a lot of that. some call it "perfume on a pig" .

All the best!
Larry

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good Afternoon...People who do such things certainly will not go to the big Model A Garage in the sky, they will most likely go to a the war in Afghanistan and have to stay there until the end of time, or maybe they will be made part of the crew of the 'Flying Dutchman' doomed to attempting to sail around the horn until the end of time! Or perhaps stuck on a Camel on the North African Desert until the end of time!Ernie in Arizona

[Tom Endy]

Originally Posted by larrys40

I see your banjo housing is the 28 style. They were disconntinued as they were a two piece with the front flange welded on and they commonly leak and are weaker than the ribbed reinforced style. I would recommend just going the extra distance in work to disassemble the rear axle since you have that style housing that will have some extra weight on it, and do not know the condition of the rest of your bearings,races, and components.

Just my suggestion. If I don't know who or have knowledge of what the rear axle is like and you're installing an overdrive to go a little faster I believe it is very prudent to ensure the rest of the rear is top notch.

Have done many myself and the worst rear axle I tore apart condition wise was on a "restored" car.
Just my take.

Larry Shepard

The early 1928 banjos do not have support gussets at the torque tube flange and are prone to crack behind the flange. The two axle housing mounting bolt holes on each side closest to the flange will most always be found to have a crack running from them.


It is prudent to replace the banjo with a later one that has support gussets during an overhaul unless you are building a 28 blue ribbon car.


Discarded torque tubes are not difficult to find, there is an abundance of them with all the overdrives that have been installed. they have no value and people who regularly install overdrives are tripping over them.


Tom Endy