The Ford Barn

COOTER · 02-19-2014, 11:34 AM

One week ago, the Model A started and drove fine. Today, it turned over very slowly but started. The ammeter is showing zero charge. If I turn the lights on, it's showing about -10....so, I assume it's working.

I drove it around the block, wishfully thinking that all would be fine. As soon as I got back home and came to a stop, the engine died. Now, the starter won't turn.

The battery is showing over 6+ volts and terminals are tight.

Troubleshooting is not my strongpoint.

???

kwisor · 02-19-2014, 11:45 AM

hello
sounds like generator is not charging try charging the battry or take it to a auto parts store and have them test the battery under a load with the starter it may not have enough power to turn the starter
kevin
1930 model a tudor
1923 model t roadster p/u

26Tguy · 02-19-2014, 12:36 PM

If the starter "wont turn"... possibly the starter bendix is jammed. If so, put the vehicle in 3rd gear and rock it front to back then try the starter again. If that does not work, remove the starter and try engaging it again. Good luck.

COOTER · 02-19-2014, 12:48 PM

Would a defective or stuck starter have an effect on the charging system? While I was driving, the ammeter was showing no charge.

midgetracer · 02-19-2014, 12:59 PM

A fully charged battery should have about 6.3 volts. You may have a poor electrical connection. Follow the wiring and check for voltage along the way. First at the starter, then at the terminal box, then at the points (with the points open and the ignition switch on. It could be a bad connection at the battery. check the cables. Good Luck.

midgetracer · 02-19-2014, 01:03 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

A stuck starter will not affect the charging system. If the generator quit, the voltage could be too low to run the car, so make sure you have at least 6 volts with a draw, such as the lights on..... Do the lights work, Horn????

COOTER · 02-19-2014, 01:09 PM

I'll check the connections. Lights and horn work.

ctvpa · 02-19-2014, 01:38 PM

Is the cut-out good?

Bruce Adams · 02-19-2014, 01:46 PM

It can't hurt for you to fully charge your battery with a battery charger prior to doing your diagnostics work.

26Tguy · 02-19-2014, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by midgetracer

A stuck starter will not affect the charging system.

This is true. However, he said that the battery tested at "6+" volts and the starter "wont turn". If the battery does truely have over 6 volts, the starter should turn... slowly, but it will turn.

1930 coupe has the correct troubleshooting advice.

Steve Wastler · 02-19-2014, 02:25 PM

sounds like faulty connection at the battery terminals

J Franklin · 02-19-2014, 02:29 PM

Have you checked the computer???

buddridge · 02-19-2014, 02:32 PM

Turn the headlights on...hit the starter....if the headlights go out its a bad starter.

Growley bear · 02-19-2014, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buddridge

Turn the headlights on...hit the starter....if the headlights go out its a bad starter.

Or a weak battery. A battery can show proper voltage but not stand up to a load test. The battery is the heart of the automotive electrical system, unless you know for sure that the battery is good, you will be chasing gremlins, wasting time and probably replacing parts that are good. A hydrometer is a good tool to have too and they are available at most parts houses as are load testers. Some times when the starter is used to try to start a Model A engine with a low or weak battery and the engine doesn't start the starter bendix remains engaged in the flywheel ring gear.

Chet

Mitch//pa · 02-19-2014, 03:22 PM

if you have a stuck starter you wont be able to turn the engine with the hand crank in neutral

Tom Wesenberg · 02-19-2014, 03:53 PM

Put a 3 to 6 amp charger on the battery right away and leave it on for about 10 hours. It's hard on the battery to leave it discharged, and that sounds like what happened. After the battery is charged try to start the car, then run it at a fast idle and check the voltage on both sides of the cutout. The readings should be equal. If the generator side is lower, then the generator isn't working. If the generator side is higher, then the cutout must not be making good contact inside to the output side, which should read battery voltage. If the cutout seems to be bad just jump across the two terminals with a good clip lead, then read the ammeter. You can drive this way for years as long as you disconnect the jumper as soon as the engine isn't running.

Bert's sells restored original cutouts. I always use an original cutout and have never had a problem with it.

26Tguy · 02-19-2014, 04:21 PM

Great info Tom.... I didnt know that. Thank you!

COOTER · 02-19-2014, 11:35 PM

So, I tightened up all connections and put the battery on the charger for a couple hours and it started. That rules out the starter being bad. Ammeter still not showing a charge though. Will have to check the generator and cut-out this weekend.

kwisor · 02-24-2014, 05:42 AM

Cooter
What did you find wrong?
kevin

COOTER · 02-24-2014, 01:31 PM

As mentioned earlier, I put a charge on the battery and tightened up the connections and it started. Although, I'm still showing zero amps on the ammeter when driving. I checked the voltage at the battery while running and it's all over the place. That's about as far as I got this weekend (was at the Big 3 Swap Meet).

I assume the generator should be putting out a fairly steady stream of energy? Bad ammeter?

02-19-2014, 11:34 AM	#1
COOTER Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 187	Car won't start. Help! One week ago, the Model A started and drove fine. Today, it turned over very slowly but started. The ammeter is showing zero charge. If I turn the lights on, it's showing about -10....so, I assume it's working. I drove it around the block, wishfully thinking that all would be fine. As soon as I got back home and came to a stop, the engine died. Now, the starter won't turn. The battery is showing over 6+ volts and terminals are tight. Troubleshooting is not my strongpoint. ???

02-19-2014, 11:45 AM	#2
kwisor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: lexington sc Posts: 456	Re: Car won't start. Help! hello sounds like generator is not charging try charging the battry or take it to a auto parts store and have them test the battery under a load with the starter it may not have enough power to turn the starter kevin 1930 model a tudor 1923 model t roadster p/u

02-19-2014, 12:36 PM	#3
26Tguy Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Manvel, TX Posts: 53	Re: Car won't start. Help! If the starter "wont turn"... possibly the starter bendix is jammed. If so, put the vehicle in 3rd gear and rock it front to back then try the starter again. If that does not work, remove the starter and try engaging it again. Good luck.

02-19-2014, 12:48 PM	#4
COOTER Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 187	Re: Car won't start. Help! Would a defective or stuck starter have an effect on the charging system? While I was driving, the ammeter was showing no charge.

02-19-2014, 12:59 PM	#5
midgetracer Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bismarck ND Posts: 1,189	Re: Car won't start. Help! A fully charged battery should have about 6.3 volts. You may have a poor electrical connection. Follow the wiring and check for voltage along the way. First at the starter, then at the terminal box, then at the points (with the points open and the ignition switch on. It could be a bad connection at the battery. check the cables. Good Luck.

02-19-2014, 01:03 PM	#6
midgetracer Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bismarck ND Posts: 1,189	Re: Car won't start. Help! Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) A stuck starter will not affect the charging system. If the generator quit, the voltage could be too low to run the car, so make sure you have at least 6 volts with a draw, such as the lights on..... Do the lights work, Horn????

02-19-2014, 01:09 PM	#7
COOTER Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 187	Re: Car won't start. Help! I'll check the connections. Lights and horn work.

02-19-2014, 01:38 PM	#8
ctvpa Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 479	Re: Car won't start. Help! Is the cut-out good?

02-19-2014, 01:46 PM	#9
Bruce Adams Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northport, NY Posts: 1,597	Re: Car won't start. Help! It can't hurt for you to fully charge your battery with a battery charger prior to doing your diagnostics work.

02-19-2014, 02:25 PM	#11
Steve Wastler Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,987	Re: Car won't start. Help! sounds like faulty connection at the battery terminals

02-19-2014, 02:32 PM	#13
buddridge Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 50	Re: Car won't start. Help! Turn the headlights on...hit the starter....if the headlights go out its a bad starter.

02-19-2014, 03:22 PM	#15
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: Car won't start. Help! if you have a stuck starter you wont be able to turn the engine with the hand crank in neutral

02-19-2014, 03:53 PM	#16
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Car won't start. Help! Put a 3 to 6 amp charger on the battery right away and leave it on for about 10 hours. It's hard on the battery to leave it discharged, and that sounds like what happened. After the battery is charged try to start the car, then run it at a fast idle and check the voltage on both sides of the cutout. The readings should be equal. If the generator side is lower, then the generator isn't working. If the generator side is higher, then the cutout must not be making good contact inside to the output side, which should read battery voltage. If the cutout seems to be bad just jump across the two terminals with a good clip lead, then read the ammeter. You can drive this way for years as long as you disconnect the jumper as soon as the engine isn't running. Bert's sells restored original cutouts. I always use an original cutout and have never had a problem with it.

02-19-2014, 04:21 PM	#17
26Tguy Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Manvel, TX Posts: 53	Re: Car won't start. Help! Great info Tom.... I didnt know that. Thank you!

02-19-2014, 11:35 PM	#18
COOTER Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 187	Re: Car won't start. Help! So, I tightened up all connections and put the battery on the charger for a couple hours and it started. That rules out the starter being bad. Ammeter still not showing a charge though. Will have to check the generator and cut-out this weekend.

02-24-2014, 05:42 AM	#19
kwisor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: lexington sc Posts: 456	Re: Car won't start. Help! Cooter What did you find wrong? kevin

02-24-2014, 01:31 PM	#20
COOTER Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ontario, CA Posts: 187	Re: Car won't start. Help! As mentioned earlier, I put a charge on the battery and tightened up the connections and it started. Although, I'm still showing zero amps on the ammeter when driving. I checked the voltage at the battery while running and it's all over the place. That's about as far as I got this weekend (was at the Big 3 Swap Meet). I assume the generator should be putting out a fairly steady stream of energy? Bad ammeter?