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Old 03-11-2012, 11:20 AM   #1
Randy
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Default information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

I have a Russian GAZ B engine that is all NOS, never used, block, counterbalanced crankshaft, rods, pistons, valves, cam, oil pan, etc., all new, unused. I've seen some posts here from Hardtimes about his NOS B engine, but where can I find info on this engine or can someone fill me in on what I have? Thanks.

I've attached some pictures, but have a lot more of what all is there. These pictures don't depict everything that I have for it. As far as I can tell, it's pretty complete with the exception of the peripherals, certainly all of the major components are there to build the engine and drop it into something that already has this type of engine.

Last edited by Randy; 02-23-2014 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:36 AM   #2
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

search "gaz b motor" . you should find info . i had alot of info at one time , but have deleted it . there is a lot of info out there . good luck
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

My guess is that you have one of the engines brought to this country from a Polish warehouse by Ford Parts Obsolete back in the sixties. I don't remember if they were still in Los Angeles or had moved to Long Beach by that time. They are no longer in business. I think there were several hundred engines involved. Many consisted of parts that were assembled into engines after they arrived. They were intended to be used in Russian military vehicles. The owner, Joe Mac, kept one of the engines aside for a "future project". He stored it in the closet of his house. I bought the engine from him at the Long Beach swap meet in the nineties and am storing it in my closet for a "future project". I believe they are the same (except for a few small casting marks on the block) as the American Model B engine with the later counterweighted crank.

Charlie Stephens

Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 03-11-2012 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:51 PM   #4
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Thanks for the Joe Mac story Charlie, I got to meet him back in 1974 and get a tour of his home garage. That was a big deal for an East Coast kid, SHOC Fronty under a bench, '36 Roadster, the Chevy powered Sprint Car, and THE BEST Model A Sport Coupe in the World IMO. I saw one of the Russian blocks a friend had in New York, the casting was so rough compaired to a normal block.
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Old 03-11-2012, 04:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Your a very lucky man !!! can't be many unused B engines left in the world

There was a big article on Rusian Model A's in the restorer magazine about 30 years ago. Very interesting and told you all about the history of the Ford Motor Co. in Russia and about the importing of these engines by Ford Parts Obsolete. Maybe someone on the site could copy it for you.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:07 PM   #6
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fordgarage View Post
Did you buy this head at the Tatro auction?
I am interested in it if it is for sale.



Is this the engine you have?

Yes, I bought that, except I got a black oil pan. Just trying to learn more about it, I hadn't thought of selling it, but wouldn't rule it out...
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Last edited by Randy; 06-08-2012 at 08:12 AM.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:17 PM   #7
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Several years ago a friend of mine bought one of the Russian engines(New old stock)He was an excelent mechanic and had built many engines. When he set the Russian engine up to put in his car he told me that after internal inspection, he replaced the following:Rings,Valves,and Valve springs.When he was through we went for a ride....
the sound was so different...thick casting and no rusting of the water jacket ! What a wonderful sound !!
Bruce davis a400usa@nccn.net
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:36 PM   #8
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Hey Randy,
Well, I do have a Russian B block in my '30 roadster. The block is all that I was interested in and all that I kept from the complete engine that I bought in about 2001. I purchased a new C crank and had the block prepared for TR-4 inserts..mains/rods..full pressure. With a Stipe custom oil pump and Crower rods in the short block, I had it bored .030 . Stainless valves/hard seats/adjustables/metal crank and cam gears and it took an arm/leg to make it complete.
Back on the old barn, there was a guy who was doing a 'study' of Ford and GAz Bs, etc... I didn't keep his findings, which were interesting. My engine came from about 3 dozen complete engines that Joe Mac (Corona, CA) told me that he had imported when he owned Ford Obsolete in the 60s (if memory serves). I gave all the parts to an acquaintance, kept the block. Joe Mac is dead now (RIP) and was quite a character to me. He ended in Corona and had his home FULL of top loader transmission parts...to the extent that is was mind bending. In his last year, he sat on a bench in his garage and instructed me to rebuild the '39 top loader that is in my '30 roadster with zehper gears. The block seemed like any B block, except of course it was NOS and has some Russian markings on it. I'll send you a Pm.
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Old 03-11-2012, 07:58 PM   #9
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Ii am forwarding this link to a Russian friend of mine in Moscow who owns a "1932" Model A Ford (GAZ ?) and see if he has any GAZ information for you.
His car is documented as a 1932 but I do not fully understand the situation of years versus models or Gorki Auto Works, (GAZ) versus Ford Motor Company cars in 1932 in USSR.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randy View Post
I have a Russian GAZ B engine that is all NOS, never used, block, counterbalanced crankshaft, rods, pistons, valves, cam, oil pan, etc., all new, unused. I've seen some posts here from Hardtimes about his NOS B engine, but where can I find info on this engine or can someone fill me in on what I have? Thanks.
There is also a little information at Vince Falters excellent site: http://www.fordgarage.com/.


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Old 03-11-2012, 10:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

I too have a Russian "B" engine that has never been assembled beyond the short block. Has unusual head, downdraft manifold and Russian characters on the starter and generator. Just tonight I talked to John Lavoy about putting it in my "A" for the Michigan trip. Any reason to tear it down as Bruce's mechanic did? It has never been fired,so should be good to go, or am i missing something?
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Old 03-12-2012, 09:47 AM   #12
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

I bought a GAZ short block in San Jose in 1966, but got drafted before I could get it in my sedan. Finally fired it last year. Other than the obivious cosmetic differences the only thing of real interest was that the deck appears to be thicker than both the Ford B and Diamond B blocks that I compared it to,
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:02 AM   #13
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

I had the round speedometer from one, but I haven't been able to find it lately. It's making me crazy! :P
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:20 PM   #14
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by norcalal View Post
I too have a Russian "B" engine that has never been assembled beyond the short block. Has unusual head, downdraft manifold and Russian characters on the starter and generator. Just tonight I talked to John Lavoy about putting it in my "A" for the Michigan trip. Any reason to tear it down as Bruce's mechanic did? It has never been fired,so should be good to go, or am i missing something?
You are missing the following things:

1. The assembly lube has probably turned to bubble gum or glue since the engine was assembled at least 50 years ago (assuming it was put together by Ford Parts Obsolete in the sixties).

2. You have no idea of the quality of the work done by the person that assembled it. Were the parts just thrown together?

3. I intend to check and probably replace the valve springs since some of them have been compressed for at least 50 years.

4. It should be balanced.

5. You shouldn't just cross your fingers and hope for the best with a valuable engine that cannot be replaced.

Charlie Stephens

Last edited by Charlie Stephens; 03-12-2012 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:30 PM   #15
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Anyone have a GAZ carb they would be willing to swap , sell. need one for a collection, Will deal whatever you want, Thanks
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:51 PM   #16
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

I bought 2 sets of GAZ lifters of ebay last year. The foot is larger than the A, @ 1.195",
and the overall length is also longer than an A. I can't imagine sell the lifters out of
his 2 blocks and replacing them with what?

Gee.....I wander if he want's to sell the blocks?

Dudley
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:16 AM   #17
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Here are more pictures of this engine. Randy
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:18 AM   #18
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

And the last of my pictures.
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:45 AM   #19
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Were there any GAZ "A" engines built in the Model A era without the oil pump adapter on the block?

I am sure there was...well, maybe.

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Old 06-08-2012, 08:50 AM   #20
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by juke joint johnny View Post
Your a very lucky man !!! can't be many unused B engines left in the world

There was a big article on Rusian Model A's in the restorer magazine about 30 years ago. Very interesting and told you all about the history of the Ford Motor Co. in Russia and about the importing of these engines by Ford Parts Obsolete. Maybe someone on the site could copy it for you.
I think there is one or two more that I forgot to include here:

RUSSIAN

“The Russian Built Copies of the Model A”: MAN/59/2/32-35 (2012)
“Those Communist Model A’s”: TR/14/6/9-22 (1970)
“More about those Communist Model A’s”: TR/15/6/6-11 (1971)
“Russia, The Other Model A”: TR/20/6/16 (1976)
“We Have a MAFCA…Could there be a MAFCR?”: TR/34/1/22 (1989)
“Russian Model A Jeep sighted in U.S.”: TR/39/2/22 (1994)
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Old 06-08-2012, 09:28 AM   #21
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

B lifters were larger than A, and more desirable when running a hot cam.
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:25 PM   #22
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Has anyone compared the GAZ B engine with the G28T engine?

Fordially,
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fordgarage View Post
Steve,
What's an "oil pump adaptor on the block"?

There is no significant difference between a US A/B engine and a GAZ A/B engine block that I am aware of.
Got me...I humble myself...my mistake!

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Old 09-10-2020, 07:48 PM   #24
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

..
Old subject but I also have a Russian GAZ B in my car that came from Obsolete
Wonder if there is more info available after 8 years.

Thanks
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Old 09-10-2020, 10:19 PM   #25
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

In late 1933 Ford sent the B engine building stuff along with model A touring car building machines, etc. to Russia. That’s why only 4 ‘34 coupes were built with B engines. They were built in ‘33. Also very few, if any,‘34 trucks had the B engine.
The model A engine stuff never went to Russia, they built A engines here until 1941.
So all the Russian cars were model A but with B engine.
Gas built a Jeep type vehicle for their army and it used the B engine with the gas tank in the cowl, similar to the model A. No fuel pump.
I did a major overhaul on a Gaz engine about 7 years ago.
It had Russian writing on the timing gear, a strange crankcase breather on the block behind the carb.
I had the lifters ground and the cam regrouped and I put in stainless valves.
I drove it about a year ago after I did some brake work on it.
It’s a 1930 deluxe roadster.
The engine is said to have come from an A parts place here in northern CA. By or in Benicia. Can’t remember the name. They say he bought 200 engines that came from a warehouse in Poland.
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Old 09-10-2020, 11:00 PM   #26
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

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Steve, there were no Gaz engines built in the model A era.
Gaz didn’t ever get any model A engine stuff from Ford.
In very late ‘33 Ford sent them the model A touring car stuff and model B engine dies,etc. They only built model A cars but with B engines.
The U.S. kept the A engine tooling and continued to build A engines until 1941.
That’s why Ford didn’t build many ‘34 model B engined cars. All 4 cylinder ‘34 cars were built in late ‘33 before the tooling went to Russia. For example: only 4 ‘34 coupes were built with the B engine.
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Old 09-10-2020, 11:05 PM   #27
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

In the late forties and fifties the Russians traded Pobeda cars with Scotland for herring.
I am told the had a model A engine in them.
They, Russians, also built a Gaz Jeep-like vehicle with the model A engine.
It had the gas tank in the top of the cowl like a model A. No fuel pump.
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:01 AM   #28
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

I spent a couple of year in Russia setting up a factory in Volgograd.

I met an old fellow that had a GAZ-67 which was the jeep that had model b engine, model a rear axle, model a front axle converted with u joint to make it into a steering axle. Used 30-31 A gas tank and dash. I tried to purchase some spare engines from this fellow but could not get a deal worked out.

some pictures of the Gaz 67 restored, one unrestored
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:04 AM   #29
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

some more GAz 67 pictures

.... unfortunately this uplaoding of picture is not working very well...
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Old 09-11-2020, 01:18 AM   #30
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

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some more GAz 67 pictures

.... unfortunately this uploading of picture is not working very well...
tried to upload again, pdf file or jpeg not working????
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Old 09-11-2020, 02:16 PM   #31
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tried to upload again, pdf file or jpeg not working????
trying again to upload
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Old 04-20-2021, 02:53 PM   #32
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

.
Just checking in again today and we got some more info.
I am looking for engine info on how much oil there was in the crankcase as these where built in 1952-1953. Thanks
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Old 04-20-2021, 05:26 PM   #33
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

I have a friend who is very knowledgeable on these engines but he doesn't post here any more since he left the US. The general belief is that the GAZ engine is better than the US version. They learned from the problems caused by Ford scrimping on materials and the resultant cracking so the castings were made thicker. Seems plausible to me.
No matter what they did to it, I don't think it would go close to a new Burtz engine.
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Old 04-21-2021, 01:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: information about NOS Russian GAZ B engine...

.
Any way to contact him Synchro
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