The Ford Barn

gacannon · 08-23-2011, 08:41 PM

I have a 28 PU I am working on. This was a basket case I bought back in the 60's. The rear of the transmission is low enough to hit the brake cross shaft when the cross shaft is actuated.

The front cross member has been replaced at some point with a very early 28 with the rigid mount style. The rigid mount part has been flame cut off and a later spring suspended front mount installed using the early 28 cross member and putting a hole in the bottom for the engine mount.

The crank handle busing is level with the engine crank center line so it looks like the elevation of the front of the engine is correct to the front cross member. However, the radiator if placed on the original mounting holes places the radiator too close to the fan.

The rear mounts are about 3/8" below the top of the frame and look to be reasonable as far as not being bent down or anything.

The rear of the transmission and the torque tube actually hit the brake cross shaft. The brake cross shaft bearings and bearing mounts look fine. Seems the engine is at the wrong angle for some reason.

As the front mount has been replaced with an early 28 rigid type and modified to use the later spring engine mount, I am wondering if the overall elevation of the early front cross member is different from the later ones.

Something has the engine too low in the back. Never run into this before. Front or back is wrong. Back needs to come up about 1/2 " or so to clear the cross shaft.

Any comments welcome.
gacannon

Purdy Swoft · 08-23-2011, 09:22 PM

Model A frames usually sag at the rear motor mount area, this is very,very common and will cause the problem that you describe. if the rear motor mount pads are not in place this would allow the engine and transmission to sink 1/4 inch or more.

Tom Wesenberg · 08-23-2011, 09:40 PM

My friend's 31 widebed PU had the same problem. His frame was bent by the rear motor mounts. No body was mounted yet, so it was easy to run it over to the body shop and straighten it. If I remember right, it had about a 3/8" sag by the rear motor mount.

Pull a string across the top of the frame (front to rear) to check for sag.

gacannon · 08-24-2011, 10:12 AM

I will pull the rear mounts off and inspect everything. From what you are saying, the problem is most likely at the rear mounts. Another post said to pull a string on the frame which I have not done either.

This old PU is a hybrid. The car was purchased in 67 for $110 bucks. Real basket case. I have owned several A's and loved them. I got two cabs with this purchase. The one on the PU I am working on now is a Hybrid consisting of a tudor cowl and doors with a 28/29 back on it. I have seen many over the years. Unfortunately, the other cab, I used on a nice little 28 pu hot rod and that cab was original with the T model doors. At the time, I just did not know much about the 28 / 29 puckups or I would not have used the cab on the hot rod and would have used it on the original Model A pickup rebuild. The Cowl is different for the pickups as they are taller and the hinges are totally different. Doors seem impossible to get and are very expensive if you find them. I am going to put this one back as a Hybrid by putting the 28 /29 taller header on the cowl section and adding 1 inch to the tudor doors to get everything back to the right height. I know its not original, but this car belongs to my brother and it was his first car so we are putting it back better than he had it in the 60's but not original. My brother has gone through major cancer surgery, major and I want to get this little A back on the road for him to enjoy.

I appreciate your input much. I am sure I will have more questions as i proceed. I know model A's pretty good. I am not a restorer as such. I fix them and drive them.

Thanks again

gacannon

gacannon · 08-24-2011, 10:19 AM

Photo

Barry B./ Ma. · 08-24-2011, 10:26 AM

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Maybe the rear mounts themselves have sagged some. You may try switching sides thus turning them upside down. How does the rear of the hood fit along the sides? A wider gap at the bottom would indicate frame sag.

Wick · 08-24-2011, 12:56 PM

Is the throttle assembly on the back of the motor hitting the cab? rear motor mounts could be cracked...my guess frame sag. Also check the front mount on the motor,make sure its not on backwards.
Wick

Fred K-OR · 08-24-2011, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wick

Is the throttle assembly on the back of the motor hitting the cab? rear motor mounts could be cracked...my guess frame sag. Also check the front mount on the motor,make sure its not on backwards.
Wick

I second the frame sag. Also could there be something under the front motor mount and the frame cross member? Sometimes they put washers or other things between the front motor mount and the frame cross member.

Wick · 08-24-2011, 02:09 PM

Ive seen washers welded to the front crossmember before. J.C.Whitney or Ricks repo mount?

Larry Seemann · 08-24-2011, 05:26 PM

Here is an article that speaks to what Barry said:
http://www.icehouse.net/overland/motormount1.jpg

gacannon · 09-04-2011, 03:17 PM

Just to let you guys know, I purchased new motor mount pads and bolts. Took a little patience to get the rubber in place and the bushing inserted.

The mounts needed some cracks repaired so I TIG welded them up.

End result was that the back of the transmission now clears the service brake cross shaft nicely.

Appreciate all the advise.

gacannon

Jim Parker Toronto · 09-04-2011, 03:42 PM

gacannon, it would be interesting to see some pictures of your pickup conversion if possible.

08-23-2011, 08:41 PM	#1
gacannon Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 27	Model A ford Rear engine mounts. I have a 28 PU I am working on. This was a basket case I bought back in the 60's. The rear of the transmission is low enough to hit the brake cross shaft when the cross shaft is actuated. The front cross member has been replaced at some point with a very early 28 with the rigid mount style. The rigid mount part has been flame cut off and a later spring suspended front mount installed using the early 28 cross member and putting a hole in the bottom for the engine mount. The crank handle busing is level with the engine crank center line so it looks like the elevation of the front of the engine is correct to the front cross member. However, the radiator if placed on the original mounting holes places the radiator too close to the fan. The rear mounts are about 3/8" below the top of the frame and look to be reasonable as far as not being bent down or anything. The rear of the transmission and the torque tube actually hit the brake cross shaft. The brake cross shaft bearings and bearing mounts look fine. Seems the engine is at the wrong angle for some reason. As the front mount has been replaced with an early 28 rigid type and modified to use the later spring engine mount, I am wondering if the overall elevation of the early front cross member is different from the later ones. Something has the engine too low in the back. Never run into this before. Front or back is wrong. Back needs to come up about 1/2 " or so to clear the cross shaft. Any comments welcome. gacannon

08-23-2011, 09:22 PM	#2
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Model A ford Rear engine mounts. Model A frames usually sag at the rear motor mount area, this is very,very common and will cause the problem that you describe. if the rear motor mount pads are not in place this would allow the engine and transmission to sink 1/4 inch or more.

08-23-2011, 09:40 PM	#3
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Model A ford Rear engine mounts. My friend's 31 widebed PU had the same problem. His frame was bent by the rear motor mounts. No body was mounted yet, so it was easy to run it over to the body shop and straighten it. If I remember right, it had about a 3/8" sag by the rear motor mount. Pull a string across the top of the frame (front to rear) to check for sag.

08-24-2011, 10:12 AM	#4
gacannon Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 27	Re: Model A ford Rear engine mounts. I will pull the rear mounts off and inspect everything. From what you are saying, the problem is most likely at the rear mounts. Another post said to pull a string on the frame which I have not done either. This old PU is a hybrid. The car was purchased in 67 for $110 bucks. Real basket case. I have owned several A's and loved them. I got two cabs with this purchase. The one on the PU I am working on now is a Hybrid consisting of a tudor cowl and doors with a 28/29 back on it. I have seen many over the years. Unfortunately, the other cab, I used on a nice little 28 pu hot rod and that cab was original with the T model doors. At the time, I just did not know much about the 28 / 29 puckups or I would not have used the cab on the hot rod and would have used it on the original Model A pickup rebuild. The Cowl is different for the pickups as they are taller and the hinges are totally different. Doors seem impossible to get and are very expensive if you find them. I am going to put this one back as a Hybrid by putting the 28 /29 taller header on the cowl section and adding 1 inch to the tudor doors to get everything back to the right height. I know its not original, but this car belongs to my brother and it was his first car so we are putting it back better than he had it in the 60's but not original. My brother has gone through major cancer surgery, major and I want to get this little A back on the road for him to enjoy. I appreciate your input much. I am sure I will have more questions as i proceed. I know model A's pretty good. I am not a restorer as such. I fix them and drive them. Thanks again gacannon

08-24-2011, 10:19 AM	#5
gacannon Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 27	Re: Model A ford Rear engine mounts. Photo

08-24-2011, 10:26 AM	#6
Barry B./ Ma. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southbridge, Ma. Posts: 1,614	Re: Model A ford Rear engine mounts. Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Maybe the rear mounts themselves have sagged some. You may try switching sides thus turning them upside down. How does the rear of the hood fit along the sides? A wider gap at the bottom would indicate frame sag.

08-24-2011, 12:56 PM	#7
Wick Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gwynn's Island Va Posts: 1,393	Re: Model A ford Rear engine mounts. Is the throttle assembly on the back of the motor hitting the cab? rear motor mounts could be cracked...my guess frame sag. Also check the front mount on the motor,make sure its not on backwards. Wick

08-24-2011, 02:09 PM	#9
Wick Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Gwynn's Island Va Posts: 1,393	Re: Model A ford Rear engine mounts. Ive seen washers welded to the front crossmember before. J.C.Whitney or Ricks repo mount?

08-24-2011, 05:26 PM	#10
Larry Seemann Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spokane, WA. Posts: 496	Re: Model A ford Rear engine mounts. Here is an article that speaks to what Barry said: http://www.icehouse.net/overland/motormount1.jpg __________________ Larry Seemann

09-04-2011, 03:17 PM	#11
gacannon Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 27	Re: Model A ford Rear engine mounts. Just to let you guys know, I purchased new motor mount pads and bolts. Took a little patience to get the rubber in place and the bushing inserted. The mounts needed some cracks repaired so I TIG welded them up. End result was that the back of the transmission now clears the service brake cross shaft nicely. Appreciate all the advise. gacannon

09-04-2011, 03:42 PM	#12
Jim Parker Toronto Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,289	Re: Model A ford Rear engine mounts. gacannon, it would be interesting to see some pictures of your pickup conversion if possible.