The Ford Barn

qmdv · 10-02-2022, 10:34 AM

I have about 25 miles on a fresh 59AB build in a 32 High Boy. The rear main seal or rear pan gasket leaks like really bad. After a ten mile drive I get a puddle about 18 inches diameter. I pulled the engine and trans to remove the LZ gears and install 28 tooth gears in the transmission.

So as long as the engine is out I pulled the oil pan and found nothing wrong with with pan gaskets. So is there a way to pull crank without removing rods and pistons. By putting it all at top dead center is this going to work.

Tim

Bored&Stroked · 10-02-2022, 10:42 AM

I'm sure one could try, but maybe you don't need to actually pull the crank, maybe you can pull the main caps and "lift it up" a bit at the rear and rotate the seal plate out? I've not done this before, but I'm just sitting here at my keyboard pondering. If that doesn't seem like it is going to work, you really haven't lost much time - just throw the caps back on and do a complete tear down.

Would be interesting to know what the actual problem is once you get things torn down - has to be something quite obvious once you get into it. It almost sounds like you don't have a rear main seal at all?

tubman · 10-02-2022, 12:58 PM

I think I have an old Motors Manual that shows a little "T"-shaped thing-a-ma-jig that fits into the oil hole in the crank and pushes a bad seal out. A new seal is the inserted using a device that looks like the old Chinese "Finger Handcuffs". I think it helps to have the main caps loose.

I'll see if I can find it again.

qmdv · 10-02-2022, 12:58 PM

I think I will make up a pre oiler and put oil with pressure at the rear of the engine and see if the oil is really leaking from the rear seal

cadillac512 · 10-02-2022, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qmdv

I have about 25 miles on a fresh 59AB build in a 32 High Boy. The rear main seal or rear pan gasket leaks like really bad. After a ten mile drive I get a puddle about 18 inches diameter. I pulled the engine and trans to remove the LZ gears and install 28 tooth gears in the transmission.

So as long as the engine is out I pulled the oil pan and found nothing wrong with with pan gaskets. So is there a way to pull crank without removing rods and pistons. By putting it all at top dead center is this going to work.

Tim

Yes. I've done it many times on various engines and don't see why it won't work on your 59AB. You won't be at TDC...the crank will need to be rotated after removing the accessible rod caps and pushing the rods/pistons up near the heads...then you can remove the remaining caps and do the same with those pistons.

Terry

Ggmac · 10-02-2022, 01:24 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by qmdv

I have about 25 miles on a fresh 59AB build in a 32 High Boy. The rear main seal or rear pan gasket leaks like really bad. After a ten mile drive I get a puddle about 18 inches diameter. I pulled the engine and trans to remove the LZ gears and install 28 tooth gears in the transmission.

So as long as the engine is out I pulled the oil pan and found nothing wrong with with pan gaskets. So is there a way to pull crank without removing rods and pistons. By putting it all at top dead center is this going to work.

Tim

Make sure its not coming from the rear cam cover . Check that first

Mart · 10-02-2022, 01:34 PM

I recently removed a crank and swapped in another crank without removing rods and pistons.
The T shaped tool is for removing upper bearing half, not the seal. There is no hole in the crank by the seal. I used something similar recently to remove upper rear main shell.
If removing and refitting the crank suspend it on a hoist. I did it recently and had it near vertical. I used shrink tube (unshrinked) over the rod and main studs to protect the crank.
You can get six of the rod caps off without moving the crank. Then move it slightly one way to get one off and slightly the other way to get the last one off.
If you have the timing cover off it makes it easier to align the marks. Align the marks before removal.
I have video of the job but it needs editing up before release.

tubman · 10-02-2022, 01:39 PM

Yup, Mart. You're right; the thing I was thinking of was to remove bearing shells, not seals. I think they may have driven a sheet metal screw into the seal to pull it out. Or maybe there was a special tool. I think I'm right about the "Chinese Handcuffs", though.

Anteek29 · 10-02-2022, 01:59 PM

The other name for the Chinese Handcuffs tool is "Sneaky Pete".

Bob C · 10-02-2022, 05:31 PM

I had one like the Chinese finger puzzle KD492.

RKS.PA · 10-02-2022, 06:14 PM

I've replaced the rear main seal by removing the pan in my '47 and dropping the rear main cap. Also, be sure to check the cork gasket that "knife"edge of the pan seals against the rear of the block. (That's the area where the cotter key drain keeps the oil from getting to the clutch.) I had to touch up the edge of pan to ensure a uniform contact with the cork seal.

Jack E/NJ · 10-02-2022, 06:22 PM

>>>I pulled the oil pan and found nothing wrong with with pan gaskets.>>>

Are you sure? There's a cork/rubber composite pan gasket --- encircled but apparently not shown in the VanPelt image below. It can get twisted out of the U-shaped pan edge when assembled. Creates a big leak.

As I recall, I used a neoprene rubber gasket for this U-shaped pan area. And used 3M contact cement to keep it in place on the mating surface on the block.

qmdv · 10-02-2022, 07:06 PM

I am recalling the conversation that I had with the guy that put the engine together. He said that after the pan was installed he realized that he could not install the flywheel. So he pulled the pan, installed the flywheel, then added lots of silicone and then put the pan back on. Could be what the problem is. Think I will pull the rear main to inspect the main seal as long as it is this far apart.

RKS.PA · 10-02-2022, 07:24 PM

Maybe your problem isn't the rear main seal???

aussie merc · 10-02-2022, 07:48 PM

just a curiosity question are you using the original rear bearing cap or aftermarket [so called ] billet cap have seen these with out the seal drain hole or it so under size it may as well not be there . Without it any bearing splash will build up and just hydraulic past the seal

qmdv · 10-03-2022, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aussie merc

just a curiosity question are you using the original rear bearing cap or aftermarket [so called ] billet cap have seen these with out the seal drain hole or it so under size it may as well not be there . Without it any bearing splash will build up and just hydraulic past the seal

Original

hotcoupe · 10-04-2022, 08:46 AM

I had a problem like this in the recent past, fresh engine, big oil leak at the rear, i thought it was a rear main seal. It turned out to be something else. The oil pump idler gear cover was the problem. I don't remember all the details, but the cover that I assembled the engine with did not completely cover the opening on the block. Different cover, new gasket, end of problem.
Hope this helps,
Tom

qmdv · 01-26-2023, 09:48 PM

So to give an update on my huge oil leak. I remember that the guy that put the engine together almost three years ago complained that he could not install the flywheel with the pan on so he had to pull the pan , install flywheel then reinstall the pan using gaskets over. So when I had the engine and trans out to change gears in the trans I removed the pan and reinstalled with new pan gaskets and was very careful. Wala, problem fixed. I am so happy

B-O-B · 01-26-2023, 09:59 PM

gmdv THANKS for the solution to your problem. Lot of posters do not & leave us all wondering.

10-02-2022, 10:34 AM	#1
qmdv Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Payette, ID Posts: 936	Rear main seal leaks I have about 25 miles on a fresh 59AB build in a 32 High Boy. The rear main seal or rear pan gasket leaks like really bad. After a ten mile drive I get a puddle about 18 inches diameter. I pulled the engine and trans to remove the LZ gears and install 28 tooth gears in the transmission. So as long as the engine is out I pulled the oil pan and found nothing wrong with with pan gaskets. So is there a way to pull crank without removing rods and pistons. By putting it all at top dead center is this going to work. Tim

10-02-2022, 10:42 AM	#2
Bored&Stroked Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 5,064	Re: Rear main seal leaks I'm sure one could try, but maybe you don't need to actually pull the crank, maybe you can pull the main caps and "lift it up" a bit at the rear and rotate the seal plate out? I've not done this before, but I'm just sitting here at my keyboard pondering. If that doesn't seem like it is going to work, you really haven't lost much time - just throw the caps back on and do a complete tear down. Would be interesting to know what the actual problem is once you get things torn down - has to be something quite obvious once you get into it. It almost sounds like you don't have a rear main seal at all?

10-02-2022, 12:58 PM	#3
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,315	Re: Rear main seal leaks I think I have an old Motors Manual that shows a little "T"-shaped thing-a-ma-jig that fits into the oil hole in the crank and pushes a bad seal out. A new seal is the inserted using a device that looks like the old Chinese "Finger Handcuffs". I think it helps to have the main caps loose. I'll see if I can find it again.

10-02-2022, 12:58 PM	#4
qmdv Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Payette, ID Posts: 936	Re: Rear main seal leaks I think I will make up a pre oiler and put oil with pressure at the rear of the engine and see if the oil is really leaking from the rear seal

10-02-2022, 01:34 PM	#7
Mart Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Solihull, England. Posts: 8,750	Re: Rear main seal leaks I recently removed a crank and swapped in another crank without removing rods and pistons. The T shaped tool is for removing upper bearing half, not the seal. There is no hole in the crank by the seal. I used something similar recently to remove upper rear main shell. If removing and refitting the crank suspend it on a hoist. I did it recently and had it near vertical. I used shrink tube (unshrinked) over the rod and main studs to protect the crank. You can get six of the rod caps off without moving the crank. Then move it slightly one way to get one off and slightly the other way to get the last one off. If you have the timing cover off it makes it easier to align the marks. Align the marks before removal. I have video of the job but it needs editing up before release.

10-02-2022, 01:39 PM	#8
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,315	Re: Rear main seal leaks Yup, Mart. You're right; the thing I was thinking of was to remove bearing shells, not seals. I think they may have driven a sheet metal screw into the seal to pull it out. Or maybe there was a special tool. I think I'm right about the "Chinese Handcuffs", though.

10-02-2022, 01:59 PM	#9
Anteek29 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Santa Maria, CA Posts: 985	Re: Rear main seal leaks The other name for the Chinese Handcuffs tool is "Sneaky Pete". __________________ Alan 1929 Special Coupe 1941 Pick-Up 1955 Victoria

10-02-2022, 06:14 PM	#11
RKS.PA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Marana, AZ Posts: 1,194	Re: Rear main seal leaks I've replaced the rear main seal by removing the pan in my '47 and dropping the rear main cap. Also, be sure to check the cork gasket that "knife"edge of the pan seals against the rear of the block. (That's the area where the cotter key drain keeps the oil from getting to the clutch.) I had to touch up the edge of pan to ensure a uniform contact with the cork seal.

10-02-2022, 07:06 PM	#13
qmdv Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Payette, ID Posts: 936	Re: Rear main seal leaks I am recalling the conversation that I had with the guy that put the engine together. He said that after the pan was installed he realized that he could not install the flywheel. So he pulled the pan, installed the flywheel, then added lots of silicone and then put the pan back on. Could be what the problem is. Think I will pull the rear main to inspect the main seal as long as it is this far apart.

10-02-2022, 07:24 PM	#14
RKS.PA Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Marana, AZ Posts: 1,194	Re: Rear main seal leaks Maybe your problem isn't the rear main seal???

10-02-2022, 07:48 PM	#15
aussie merc Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2016 Location: sydney australia Posts: 1,033	Re: Rear main seal leaks just a curiosity question are you using the original rear bearing cap or aftermarket [so called ] billet cap have seen these with out the seal drain hole or it so under size it may as well not be there . Without it any bearing splash will build up and just hydraulic past the seal

10-04-2022, 08:46 AM	#17
hotcoupe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: imperial,mo Posts: 694	Re: Rear main seal leaks I had a problem like this in the recent past, fresh engine, big oil leak at the rear, i thought it was a rear main seal. It turned out to be something else. The oil pump idler gear cover was the problem. I don't remember all the details, but the cover that I assembled the engine with did not completely cover the opening on the block. Different cover, new gasket, end of problem. Hope this helps, Tom

01-26-2023, 09:48 PM	#18
qmdv Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: Payette, ID Posts: 936	Re: Rear main seal leaks So to give an update on my huge oil leak. I remember that the guy that put the engine together almost three years ago complained that he could not install the flywheel with the pan on so he had to pull the pan , install flywheel then reinstall the pan using gaskets over. So when I had the engine and trans out to change gears in the trans I removed the pan and reinstalled with new pan gaskets and was very careful. Wala, problem fixed. I am so happy

01-26-2023, 09:59 PM	#19
B-O-B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ft Mohave,Az Posts: 1,987	Re: Rear main seal leaks gmdv THANKS for the solution to your problem. Lot of posters do not & leave us all wondering.