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Old 08-31-2021, 10:22 AM   #1
Vic in E-TN
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Default Brake Shoe Lining Information

I have been reading a post recently started by Werner in Germany concerning his brake fade. I have some thoughts and a little information to consider.
Brake linings can be bonded or riveted. Randy Gross prefers bonded and so do I. I have sent shoes out to be relined with the composite material (not woven) for many years. There was a brake and clutch shop in Illinois, where I lived at the time, that was able to provide this service. That was 20 years ago. One of the first things that they asked me what what lining did I want, what hardness, what coefficient of friction? I thought that they were all the same. They had whatever I wanted. I chose the softest at first and they were OK. After a little experimentation and the first set of Plasmeter drums I was able to move to a better solution.


The following is taken from Wikipedia. Brake linings are characterized by their "Coefficient of Friction". The higher the number the more the friction. This is stated from C through Z.

C is less than 0.15
D is 0.15 to 0.25
E is 0.25 to 0.35
F is 0.35 to 0.45
G is 0.45 to 0.55
H is greater than 0.55
Z is unclassified


They are rated for example "GD" which is G-cold/normal and D is when hot.
Brake lining material is marked on the back with it's alphabetical designation. Once the lining is bonded you cannot see the information. They use a different system in Germany but it has a similar function. I cannot read German.


Hopefully Werner can read this and we can try to analyze his problems using this information. Comments are appreciated.


Randy Gross if you read this - what brake shoe lining designations do you provide?



Vic
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Old 08-31-2021, 01:38 PM   #2
Werner
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Default Re: Brake Shoe Lining Information

Nice Vic, to pick up this theme!


Unfortunately, I have received no technical data sheet for the rear replacement pads from Don Snyder for comparison. Although I questioned.

Attached is the spec sheet for the front mounted brake pad shoes. This is a single customer design with high coefficient of friction from a company that makes brakes for trucks and also clutch pads according to the old submitted pattern.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ITB_4721.pdf (848.2 KB, 41 views)
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Ford Model A, Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Hercules W 2000, 1976; (with NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine), Canadian version
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Old 08-31-2021, 02:39 PM   #3
Mel Gross
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Default Re: Brake Shoe Lining Information

Our brake shoe material in unclassified. We have been using the same material for close to 15 years now. It is a very soft material made specifically for slower speed vehicles and those that are not driven thousands of miles a year. The softer, the better grip and less chance of chatter and squealing. All of our shoes are bonded (no rivets) and chamfered on the leading and trailing edges.
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Old 08-31-2021, 03:56 PM   #4
Vic in E-TN
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Default Re: Brake Shoe Lining Information

Randy:
I have used your shoes (and drums) on several vehicles and I am very happy with them. Others in my club (Smoky Mountain Model A Club) also have had good experience.


What I was trying to do with my posting was to explain why Werner was having the brake fade experience he had.


Perhaps Werner could purchase some relined shoes from you and make a performance comparison.


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Old 08-31-2021, 05:23 PM   #5
Werner
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Default Re: Brake Shoe Lining Information

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic in E-TN View Post
Perhaps Werner could purchase some relined shoes from you and make a performance comparison.Vic
Good idea, I'am ready for this attempt. I'm trying to clarify whether he will be done with overseas shipping.
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Hercules W 2000, 1976; (with NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine), Canadian version
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Old 09-04-2021, 01:53 PM   #6
Werner
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Default Re: Brake Shoe Lining Information

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic in E-TN View Post
Perhaps Werner could purchase some relined shoes from you and make a performance comparison.Vic
Unfortunately, this does not work with the rubbers from the USA. Mel Gross has written to me that I would have to organize the shipment myself. Unfortunately, this does not work from Germany, because I would have to commission a German shipping company with a pickup, which will be extremely expensive. Too bad.

In the meantime, I have contacted the local brake manufacturer and asked for an extremely heat-resistant friction value, without interest in high mileage.

We will see further.
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Ford Model A, Roadster, 1928
Citroen 11 CV, 1947
Hercules W 2000, 1976; (with NSU-Wankel Rotary Engine), Canadian version
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Old 09-04-2021, 02:37 PM   #7
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Default Re: Brake Shoe Lining Information

What is the measurement of new brake shoes and when should they be replaced? I am using a micrometer to measure. Thanks
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Old 09-04-2021, 03:55 PM   #8
Bruce of MN
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Default Re: Brake Shoe Lining Information

Vic, was that All Brake in Cicero that you used? They bonded and arced my motorcycle brakes maybe 25 years ago and did a good job.
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Old 09-04-2021, 08:41 PM   #9
aermotor
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Default Re: Brake Shoe Lining Information

What is wrong with known suppliers of brake shoes and drums like Berts, Snyders, Mikes etc. If you have fade problems with shoes or drums from the above some thing else is going on. You can lock up the brakes with all of the above if all installation and adjustment is correct and international shipping is a non - issue
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Old 09-04-2021, 08:48 PM   #10
Vic in E-TN
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Default Re: Brake Shoe Lining Information

Bruce of MN:
I do not remember the name of the company. They were in Des Plaines.
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Old 09-04-2021, 10:50 PM   #11
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Default Re: Brake Shoe Lining Information

I lived in Des Plaines and I remember that place now. Their arcing machine had a dust collection hood that seemed a bit light for asbestos.
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