Newbie needs help ...

[Dave Young]

Nice day today ... thought it a good opportunity to start the A and run it around a bit.

Went through the start up drill ... gas on, spark retarded, etc. etc. ... Nothing happened! No response at all to stepping on the starter button. Tried again, several times, same (non) result.

During this process, I had turned the ignition key on and off several times and suddenly realized that I couldn't remember which positions of the key were 'on' and 'off'. Then I discovered that I could remove the key from the switch in either position. The horrible thought suddenly occurred to me that I may have left the ignition 'on' the last time I used the car. A week ago. (who knew you could pull the key while in the 'on' position)

If that is the case ... what might I have done? Dead battery? burned up points, condenser, I really have no idea. This is where your help comes in.

First, I don't know for sure that's what happened and I assume that you knowledgeable guys would know what order to start checking things to find out what happened. If you can give me some ideas what to start looking for, I'd appreciate it. Keep it simple if you can, I'm no mechanic.

Dave

[JDupuis]

The switch turned to the right (clockwise) is "on"
Turn left is "off"
Will the lights turn on?
Step on brake pedal, does amp guage show discharge?
If "no", recharge battery.
Remember, if 6 volt, "POS" is ground.
Jeff

[Dave Young]

Thanks, JDupuis ... Just checked. No lights, no amp discharge from brake pedal.

I'll assume, then, that I've got a dead battery. But if it was caused by my leaving the ignition on, will it have caused additional damage beyond the dead battery? I'm suspecting that it was the ignition switch because I can't see any reason for a good battery to suddenly die without warning. Is a dead battery beyond the help of a trickle charger? (So much to learn, so little time)

[Tom Wesenberg]

Put a 4 to 6 amp charger on the battery, connected to the starter switch and ground. Make sure polarity is correct, and the stock Model A is NEGATIVE at the switch. Leave it on the battery for 24 hours, since it sounds like you may have completely drained the battery.

You may have fried the coil, but charge the battery first to find out.

[Y-Blockhead]

Dave, not trying to be a Smart A$$ but do you have a Master Shut off switch? I have been known to shut off the Master Switch, then forget about it and go into panic mode... I went so far to attempt to jump start my car before I realized I had no ground.

[Dave Young]

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Blockhead ... No, no master shut off switch. Wish I did though. I'll tackle that project in the Spring.

Dave

[sethkestenbaum]

David,

Many a Model A (and garage) has been lost due to electrical fires that could have been avoided with a master shut off. I installed one years ago (there is a great post on fordbarn showing how to wire one into your floorboards so you can reach it as you get in/out of your car). Part of my "shut off ritual" is to hit the horn before I leave the car. With the battery shut off switched off, I get no honk and the chances of an electrical fire are eliminated. Turning the key "off" doesn't shut all the electric off to the car.... so watch out

As Tom noted, you may just need to charge your battery. If you don't have one, now is a great time to get a trickle charger. They are cheap and will help you keep the battery charged in the future (in the event that you don't drive enough for your generator to recharge the battery fully).

I hope this helps.
Seth

[1955cj5]

There have been several threads on battery cut-out switches as Seth mentions....Here is one..


https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3654


.

[Big hammer]

Connecting the charge leads to the starter switch and the frame is quick and easy,
But when was the last time WE have serviced our batteries? Good time when our battery needs charged to check the battery level, connections, clean the battery, etc, so going through the floor and do some maintenance :-)

[700rpm]

Loosen your battery caps during charging. Don't position yourself directly over the battery at
any time during the charge. After charging, disconnect your charger, then replace your caps.

[john charlton]

Sadly over the years I too have drained the battery by leaving the ignition on, this mainly happened when I had left it running and it had stopped or ran out of gas . I now have got into the habit of checking the ampmeter when I exit the car mainly to see if my Chinese generater cutout has not stuck closed so I know from that I have switched off . You can be lucky when the engine stopped the points are open but normally they are closed . The coils seem fairly rugged as I have never burnt one out (yet !!!)

John in misty cold winter morning Suffolk County England .

[NCRebel]

I keep a note that states, "turn the gas off!" in the car. That reminds me to do my starting ritual in reverse. The only way I imagine learning the system by rote is driving more often.

If we don't make mistakes, we're not learning new things.

[1930artdeco]

To me at least there are two reasons: dead batt or bad ground. I have gotten in the habit of just disconnecting the batt. at the end of trips.

Mike

[nhusa]

I found it hard to get to the battery to disconnect it so I put a switch and fuse in the wire from the starter to the dash panel. That way I always disconnect everything except for the starter.

[Dave Young]

Well, here we go again ... I figured I'd take the battery out, run it down to my local
service garage and have them check it out. If it's still good, charge it up, if it isn't, get me a replacement.

Got the floorboard up, took off the battery cables, removed the hold down bracket ...
then discovered that there's no way I can lift the battery out with my old arthritic fingers.

Now I'm sure I'm not the first guy to run into this ... There must be a device that clamps onto the top rim of the battery that will then enable it to be lifted out. If so, what's it called and where can I get one?

Sorry to be such a pain, but eventually I'll be able to answer questions instead of always asking them.

Dave

[1955cj5]

I'm sure there are more than just these...

A couple are sorta like the old ice block carriers!

https://www.oreillyauto.com/shop/bat...niversal-19572

[sethkestenbaum]

Some rope or a few old belts can be used to wrap the battery and help start the lift.
You may need to shift the batter around to get the rope/belt under it to start things off.....as an aside, I've found that the neighbor's kids are also a great resource for lifting car parts.

[Dave Young]

Thanks, 1955. I looked in all the model A catalogs I have, but nobody had anything like these. On your recommendation, I've already ordered the Lisle Carrier for about $20.00

And Seth, I tried using a couple of old neckties to use as a lift, but couldn't get the battery up enough to get them underneath. And no neighbor's kids in our retirement community. Good idea though.

Dave

[MickeyT]

I use two large pliers ( they are called water pump pliers ) and grab a post with each.

I've also used this tool and it works very well.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00FDXIGWS...a-306575760231

[sethkestenbaum]

depending on the condition of the battery holder, you might be able to work them under the battery from the bottom. It sounds like a good use for some old ties. Have you figured out how to set your distributor using a cumberbun?

[J Franklin]

Lifting a battery is easy with a devise sold at auto parts houses for that application. It is a strap with positive grip ends that grip the posts. I have 2 of them and glad they are so handy.

[Terry, NJ]

Dave, Good luck! However, Mod. A "Popout" ign. switches are known to short internally and drain the system. Don't ask me how I know! A good solution is the switch that Snyders sells for about $55. You lose the "pop out" part of it, but it's a good solid, seems to be well made switch, that won't let you down.
For me, the way I found out the old switch was bad, was just wiggle the key in the switch in the off position, don't turn it!, just wiggle it and keep your eye on the ammeter. If it's bad, you'll see the needle going from zero (Centered) to discharge. These can be rebuilt, but I'm not ready to try it.

Originally Posted by Dave Young

Nice day today ... thought it a good opportunity to start the A and run it around a bit.

Went through the start up drill ... gas on, spark retarded, etc. etc. ... Nothing happened! No response at all to stepping on the starter button. Tried again, several times, same (non) result.

During this process, I had turned the ignition key on and off several times and suddenly realized that I couldn't remember which positions of the key were 'on' and 'off'. Then I discovered that I could remove the key from the switch in either position. The horrible thought suddenly occurred to me that I may have left the ignition 'on' the last time I used the car. A week ago. (who knew you could pull the key while in the 'on' position)

If that is the case ... what might I have done? Dead battery? burned up points, condenser, I really have no idea. This is where your help comes in.

First, I don't know for sure that's what happened and I assume that you knowledgeable guys would know what order to start checking things to find out what happened. If you can give me some ideas what to start looking for, I'd appreciate it. Keep it simple if you can, I'm no mechanic.

Dave

[JBill]

I have a lifter more or less like the one in post #21. They work great. The battery is in an awkward place for anybody, whether arthritic or not, and there never seems to be a good place to get a grip on it. They're of course also useful for reinstalling the battery.

[Big hammer]

When the battery reclaimer would pick up dad's old batteries from his store, the guy used an box end wrench! I don't know what size way to many nights since then :-)

[slammin]

The battery lifting strap in post #21 makes picking up a battery easy, and they are cheap! Always important to me.

[1955cj5]

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Originally Posted by Big hammer

When the battery reclaimer would pick up dad's old batteries from his store, the guy used an box end wrench! I don't know what size way to many nights since then :-)

I've done that...not the best way...be careful that your wrench isn't so long that it can touch both battery posts!!

A strap is much better....

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Dave Young

Well, here we go again ... I figured I'd take the battery out, run it down to my local
service garage and have them check it out. If it's still good, charge it up, if it isn't, get me a replacement.

Got the floorboard up, took off the battery cables, removed the hold down bracket ...
then discovered that there's no way I can lift the battery out with my old arthritic fingers.

Now I'm sure I'm not the first guy to run into this ... There must be a device that clamps onto the top rim of the battery that will then enable it to be lifted out. If so, what's it called and where can I get one?

Sorry to be such a pain, but eventually I'll be able to answer questions instead of always asking them.

Dave

Do as I said in #4 and save yourself a lot of trouble. Even the service station can't check the battery until it's been on the charger for hours. If they put it on the charger for an hour, test it and tell you it's shot, they haven't given it a good test.

[daveymc29]

You mentioned tackling this in the spring. By all means get the battery up to fully charged before too long. The longer it sits dead the more damage occurs. JMHO

[Ernie Vitucci]

Good afternoon...I believe that NAPA still has battery straps that have a clip for the two terminals and then a plastic strap in between. Most likely less than $20.00. Ernie

[Farrell In Vancouver]

I made my battery lifter with two replacement cable ends and a piece of 1" wratchet. Strap It's works a treat and it's less then the store bought units

[michael a]

Dave did you get that running yet ?