Buying an out of state car on the internet

[Dave Young]

A newbie here ... desperately looking for a real nice model A but can't find anything local or even within a couple of hundred miles. Looks like I'll have to resort to the internet sites and buy out of state and unseen.

I've done some traveling to look at a few but have been disappointed when they don't live up to their descriptions. I'm scared to think about cars living up to their descriptions when you can't actually view them in person.

And then there's interstate shipping to contend with ... I've read a lot of horror stories on the internet about rip-offs with huge extra charges, etc.

What's a fella to do? Can anyone here convince me that my fears are unfounded and that actually, sending someone you don't know, twenty or
so thousands of dollars is quite common and nothing to worry about, and that my car will be as described and arrive unblemished and with no extra charges. Thanks, in advance, for your encouragement. Cheers, Dave

[mhsprecher]

I don't think that is a great idea, unless you might buy from someone who advertises in one of the club publications or web site. I have had good luck on local Craigslist, but it depends upon where you are? You don't say, so you might start with that.

If you are not a member of a local club chapter, I would join and then see what members have for sale. It may just be that you live very remotely, which limits your choices. If that is your only option, I would be sure to go see the car first hand. I know that is expensive, but it could save untold headaches. Some club members near where you hope to get the car would help, too.

I am sure that others will have good ideas, but those are my suggestions.

[abachman3]

Visit the two National Model A Club web sites and shop their cars for sale. At least their you may guess that those cars have been somewhat taken care of and generally maintained. Also, more easy to follow up on the sellers.

[Dave Young]

I'm not in a remote area but I am in rural Pennsylvania. Unfortunately, there are no clubs within a hundred miles. I feel like I'm out in left field. Don't know anyone who owns a model A. Thanks for the advice though, I never thought of contacting a club at the other end. Cheers, Dave

[kbinde2]

Be sure to talk to your DMV, frame/engine numbers, title or Bill of Sale..? What does your state require.? A lot of preliminary leg-work may save a
head-ache later down the road. kb

[Fred K-OR]

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As far as the transporting the rig, if you can drive a pickup, you may think about renting a pickup type truck with a car trailer at the place where you buy the rig. Yes it is expensive depending on how far you have to travel. But it is an option.

Also the idea of getting someone in the area where you think about buying a rig, to look it over and give you an idea of what they think. Yes try to get a Model A club member to do this. Most times in Model A clubs, you will find members that are good at knowing if a rig is good or not.

Another consideration is what do YOU want? Do you want one completely restored to original (high price) or one you can rebuild yourself (lower price). You kind of need to think about what you want.

[Dave Young]

Oh, I know what I want, Fred ... I'm looking for a sedan, 2 or 4 door, that has been restored and well maintained. (Wife's pretty picky about the color, too). We did Hershey a few days ago. Saw a few gorgeous cars but with gorgeous prices.

[Grier]

I did exactly what abachman3 suggested. Kept looking on eBay too, but ultimately found a beautiful 1929 Phaeton. Emailed and received further pictures etc and decided the car looked good enough to arrange a flight from North Carolina to Washington State. It helped that I could combine this trip with a visit with my wife to her sister and husband. But I would have traveled anywhere. I would never recommend buying a restored car without making a personal assessment (or any other car too). The hard part was deciding how to get it home. I did extensive research and decided to go with Passport Transport. They own their own fleet and do not sub out any cars to other "unknown" carriers. They love antique and special interest cars. It did take about 5 weeks for them to get a truck booked that would trek from WA to NC, but I didn't mind (so much). Car came just as I saw it, no issues, no problems. They weren't the cheapest, but I wasn't going to low ball and suffer the consequences. Best to pay a reputable company than be sorry. Cost about $2500 so you know. Good luck, and you won't be sorry to take the extra time and expense to do it right.

[chl]

Rural Pa. covers a large part of the state , what part are you in,NE, N central, NW, Central, S central, ??

[28RPU]

NEVER buy a car you haven't actually put your hands on. I have been burned twice by doing that. They always look better in photos than they do in person. Heck, I even saw a coupe at a swap meet just across from mine that looked good but upon getting close to it, it had pitted metal covered in paint. ALWAYS check it out in person unless you have money to waste.

[eagle]

One thing to remember, if its a reputable seller they won't mind jumping through a few hoops for you. If they are unwilling to go the extra mile to satisfy your concerns, BEWARE. I have bought sight unseen...I will never do it again. There are lots of model As out there. Have patience and watch Craigslist, you'll find one. One thing to remember, the Fordors (except the slant windows) are all wood framed. Be very careful, it is VERY expensive and time consuming to replace the wood kit on a Fordor. The Tudor sedan is steel bodied.

[Dave Young]

Grier ... Wow, $2,500. ... I shipped a modern Chrysler to England a few years ago for $650. Drove it to the dock in New York ... drove it away from Southampton in UK a couple of weeks later. I know we're not talking apples and pears here, but wow! $2,500!

Chi ... I'm in Lebanon County

28RPU ... As an old man myself, I love your 'old man! quote ... I drove (a total of) six hours yesterday to look at a 1930 sedan that looked fabulous on the internet. I was so convinced it was the car for me that I took my check book. It was a real piece of crap, that proves your point ... they look better in photos than they do in person.

[jimalabam]

Photos are deceiving. Best to communicate with fellow Model A'ers or another one through one of the National Model A Clubs. Your exact location would be helpful, by the way what's a hundred miles to discuss with fellow Model A'ers who know these cars. You probably should not judge the prospects without some back-up unless you really know Model A's

[redmodelt]

You might start by putting your location in your profile. Not knowing you we do not know what you consider crap and what you consider passable so would be hard for someone to point you to a car for sale. What price range are you shopping for?

[5851a]

Originally Posted by 28RPU

NEVER buy a car you haven't actually put your hands on. I have been burned twice by doing that. They always look better in photos than they do in person. Heck, I even saw a coupe at a swap meet just across from mine that looked good but upon getting close to it, it had pitted metal covered in paint. ALWAYS check it out in person unless you have money to waste.

I will not buy on internet again, burned once. A fresh wash, a little photoshop and your looking at a show stopper.

[pgerhardt]

My route to getting my current model A may be of interest to you.

When I wanted to get back in the hobby I was not a newbie, but I had been away from the hobby for over 40 years teaching science and raising two kids. When I retired and the kids were successfully "launched", it was time for me to find another model A.

I wanted an easy and safe way to ease back into the hobby. I contacted a local classic car dealer (Classic Motor Cars Of Ellington). I told them what I was looking for (a tudor sedan), and what I wanted to pay ($15K), and asked them to keep an eye out as they ran across model A's for sale. The dealer (Keith Clotter) would email me descriptions and pictures of cars he thought I would like. It came down to two cars; a maroon 1930 tudor, and a green 29 tudor. Keith said he thought the green 29 was the better car, and I went with it, giving him a deposit and committing to buy it from him after an in person inspection. Once he had the 29 tudor at his dealership I drove up to Ellington to test drive the car, and buy it. I know I could most likely gotten the car for less if I bought it directly from the previous owner, but in my case I was more interested in the convenience and ease of mind that working with an experienced dealer gave me.

They delivered to car to my door already registered to me, and ready for me to start having fun. I drove it for the first summer as it was. As I became more familiar with it, I decided to re-restore it to bring it up to a level I would be happy with.

For me working with a professional, if more expensive, was the way to go.

[Synchro909]

I've bought 2 Model As from the US which is a little further away than just interstate, one from the MAFCA site and the other through a personal recommendation. I am happy with both cars but I had them checked before I bought. There are companies that do that. If you find a car being sold by a member of a club somewhere, I wouldn't have it checked by another member of the same club for obvious reasons.
My advice is "Tread carefully and don't be impatient."

[d.]

location? your location is important...put it in your profile if you expect useable responses.

[Grier]

Dave and that wasn't the most expensive quote I got. The cheapest quote was around $1500 if I remember. The difference between a modern car and antique is that I required a enclosed cab plus further it was a Phaeton and Model A's are taller (windshield) than most modern cars and they can't pack them in like sardines as well. The distance was over 3 thousand miles of driving too....less than a dollar per driven mile. I also didn't want some car over top of my car dripping "stuff" on top of my car. So yes I paid a premium. But it was worth it. Not a scratch. It was a 450 point car. Cheap insurance for peace of mind.

[Dave Young]

Thanks, gents ... lots of useful info here (that's why I joined) ...but I must reply to redmodelt. You're right, of course, but a piece of crap isn't all that hard to determine.
Lots of rust, bubbly paint, horrendous scratches and paint loss, torn upholstery, door cards poorly fitted, vinyl roof unglued, car wouldn't start, no floor on driver's side with battery exposed, flat tire ... Car looked gorgeous in the internet pics. I don't know how you would have rated it, but it looked like crap to me for $18,000. I'm looking to spend around $20,000.

[Charlie Stephens]

Originally Posted by Dave Young

Oh, I know what I want, Fred ... I'm looking for a sedan, 2 or 4 door, that has been restored and well maintained. (Wife's pretty picky about the color, too). We did Hershey a few days ago. Saw a few gorgeous cars but with gorgeous prices.

We are making progress. What year and what color? The Tudor sedans were basically all steel. The floorboards were wood, the top bows for the the insert were wood, the header was wood, there were wood tack strips for the upholstery and there was wood in the seat frames. The Fordors were another story. Everything that was wood on the Tudors was wood on the Fordors. In addition there was a lot of structural wood in the door frames. The structure for the floor was wood. A lot of the structure for attaching the body panels was wood. There is one exception for the Fordors. During the 1931 production year they changed the design to make the Fordor mostly steel like all of the Tudors. This design also included a slanted windshield and no sun visor on the outside (they added sun visors inside of the car), thus these were called the slant window sedans. If you get a Fordor I would recommend the slant window. If you do get a straight window Fordor be sure all the wood is solid and the doors close easily as the wood can get very expensive to replace.

Charlie Stephens

[mrtexas]

The first Model A I bought, a 29 roadster had thick bondo on every body panel and I drove 450 miles to look at it, not knowing what I was doing. I later sold it to a local guy who is happy as can be with it. I completely restored it however. He didn't check the sheet metal for bondo making the same mistake I made. Sometimes you get lucky.

The best way to buy is in person if you know what you are doing, if not have a knowledgeable person inspect it specific to Model As and better specific to the particular model. IMHO a generic antique car inspector won't do it for a Model A. The second best way is to buy from an honest person who actually did the restoration. By the answers to the questions you ask I think you can gauge whether a seller is honest. He can tell you exactly what he did and what is meant by restored. I bought a good early 28 roadster pickup by pictures but later discovered the driver's side door had a rather large crack in it where they usually crack from slamming the door. The passenger door was bondo for the bottom two inches. The 5/8 inch drive starter was for a later car and while it would turn the engine over it would not disengage as the flywheel requires an early 1/2 inch driver starter. The owner inherited it from his uncle and knew nothing about the car.

I later sold the 28 truck to a guy sight unseen. I provided lots of pictures and the truck had had all the defects I could find corrected and nearly every piece restored in some way, new paint and interior. The buyer later discovered there were no shocks on the car. I had provided pictures that showed no shocks but I guess he overlooked those. If he had asked I would have told him they weren't there. The buyer didn't ask any questions but I think my restoration was very thorough although not restored to a particular date with lots of very rare early parts. I would have answered any and all questions about the restoration but none were asked. The seller insisted on bargaining down from what I thought was a very low price. Well he didn't get all the spare parts I was intending to include for my asking price. I got more for the parts than the $500 he insisted on bargaining me down for. https://28fordarpickup.weebly.com/

[jim1932]

You couldn't find a nice Model A for $20k at hershey?????

You don't need the internet for distance, you do to find them. PA, NY and WV have them frequently. Craigslist for Harrisburg, baltimore and Binghamton shows 5 good cars all under 20K

[Wilbur]

Dave. Just be patient and keep looking locally. There are many, many cars within a 3 hours drive of you , just sitting in garages, as their current owners have become too old to use them or have passed away. They come up all the time. Craigslist is a good source as are estate sales. I live near Atlantic City and know of quite a few sitting, not for sale "yet". I'll keep an ear out for you, as will anyone else who has read this post. $15K seems a reasonable target to get a fully operational car, but needing the usual battery and tires. It just so happens that we share the same name! Dave Young in Mays Landing, NJ

[CarlG]

I bought my pickup on eBay. Had it shipped from Southern California to Alaska. I was pleasantly pleased with both the condition of the vehicle and the shipping, (price as well as care they gave the vehicle in transit).

I wasn't very pleased with the seller for shipping it with plain water in the radiator, (in February), but that's a whole nuther story.

[flan30]

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Dave I've spent the last two years searching craig's list and I can tell you everyone has their own idea of what mint condition is, or what no rust or rot is. your spending a lot of money on a car so make sure its up to your standards. Enjoy the hunt even though my search is over I miss the road trips with my wife and son looking for the Model A of my dreams.

[Mike V. Florida]

since you live in a rural area for know the saying about a pig in a poke.

[trulyvintage]

Some folks need to see a car in person before they pull the trigger & buy it.

Other folks use the internet to find a car that suits their needs.

If you were at Hershey and prepared to buy a car but didn't because of prices,
that would suggest perhaps that you are not willing to pay for the car that you want.

Just an observation.


Jim

[Ford Acar]

I have successfully evaluated and pre-purchased several interstate ,and far distant cars, over the years, sight unseen, using a refundable deposit arrangement that includes a "condition precedent" of buyer approval after inspection. This allows a secured interest in the car, subject to your personal inspection.
It works, and is valid in Australia. You would need to ascertain if this complies with the laws in USA.
PM me if you would like the contract.

[smittykid]

Dave,
I am a Pa. resident as well. I have purchased several vintage cars(including Model A's) from out of state. Where in Pa. are you located? Shoot me a PM and we can discuss the matter further.

[Rex_A_Lott]

PM sent, Good Luck.

[62pan]

If you live in Lebanon County contact the Lehigh Valley Model A Club. They put on a good show each spring at Hellertown and at least 75 Model A's show up. I would start there for advice.

[ronn]

I can buy a heck of a tudor for 20k..................

surprised this was a problem at Hershey.

[TerryH]

Not every restored Model A on the internet has been poorly done or misrepresented; many are, but there are also some very nicely done cars. I bought my 1930 Town Sedan from a gentleman in rural New York, who had spent 10 years on a total frame off restoration....and the wood was all good. I also used Passport to have the car delivered to S. California, and it cost $2,000 11 years ago, but I was very pleased with the service & having my car in a totally enclosed trailer. My car was listed on Hemings website, and I have never regretted buying it. It was $18,000 and worth every penny, getting a Model A that was properly restored and running, and needing nothing other than a few touring mods.

[1931 flamingo]

If you find one you're interested in, come back here and give location and see if somebody on the Barn is nearby and could give a "look" for you.
There are also "professional" inspectors all over the country (ck Hemming's) that for a modest fee will inspect the car for you and issue a report.
There are also people here on the Barn (Truly Vintage, highly recommended) that will enclosed transport for you at reasonable prices.
Good luck in your search. My late 31 Deluxe tudor is For Sale
13,500 or reasonable offer, see Avitar.
Paul in CT

[leo]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned paying for an appraisal as a way to examine a car from a long distance. It may cost $250 but may save you a trip for nothing too. The only caveat I would have is to find someone reputable who has experience with whatever type of vehicle they would have to inspect.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by leo

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned paying for an appraisal as a way to examine a car from a long distance. It may cost $250 but may save you a trip for nothing too. The only caveat I would have is to find someone reputable who has experience with whatever type of vehicle they would have to inspect.

Check posts 17 and 29 and others.

[panhead_pete]

Start by placing a wanted ad here in the classifieds.

[Bruce of MN]

https://www.uship.com/ is an option for shipping.

If you rent a trailer, make sure that you tie the car down well. This https://www.hagerty.com/assets/PDF/T...ngPamphlet.pdf looks like a good guide.

[barkleydave]

Amazing folks are willing to spend 20K on a car sight unseen but refuse to spend a few hundred bucks to travel to see it! Buyer Beware! I brought a very experienced Model A owner with me to look at mine. I paid his expenses "meals etc" Worth every penny! Join a club most of us love to travel to check out cars!

[Chippy Minton]

Even the difference between looking at a car from 20 feet and up close can make a huge difference. Mind you the best Model As will not look as though they have just rolled off the production line. Character comes with age and experience.

[3.6rs]

Originally Posted by Dave Young

A newbie here ... desperately looking for a real nice model A but can't find anything local or even within a couple of hundred miles. Looks like I'll have to resort to the internet sites and buy out of state and unseen.

I've done some traveling to look at a few but have been disappointed when they don't live up to their descriptions. I'm scared to think about cars living up to their descriptions when you can't actually view them in person.

And then there's interstate shipping to contend with ... I've read a lot of horror stories on the internet about rip-offs with huge extra charges, etc....

What's a fella to do? Can anyone here convince me that my fears are unfounded and that actually, sending someone you don't know, twenty or
so thousands of dollars is quite common and nothing to worry about, and that my car will be as described and arrive unblemished and with no extra charges. Thanks, in advance, for your encouragement. Cheers, Dave

Don't beleave everything you read on the internet ! Not even 20% of it.
I've been buying cars in USA for almost 30 years (about 90 cars) and only 2 of them I had to sell without profit. Most of the cars I didn't see - just a few expensive ones, I took a flight (and vacation) to see them.
When you know something about old cars you ask the right questions to the seller. When you don't know anything about cars stay away from it. And you also have to know something of the values of an old car.
My opinion

[3.6rs]

Originally Posted by Jim/Alabam

Photos are deceiving. ...

Sometimes cars look better in real then on a picture !

[WHN]

I like cars that have been owned by the same family for years. They are usually a family treasure. Whether driven or stored, they have been loved.

If you are looking at a car that has been owned by many different people. I would walk away. You might miss out on a good car, but there is a reason they have changed hands. Every new owner has had a learning curve with a car.

There are good cars out there. Enjoy.

[Dave Young]

I'm really blown away by the responses I've received from my question ... to date, 43 comments and 1,258 views. What's quite remarkable, is that since posting my question, (and I was sincerely concerned about buying a car off the internet), I've actually found a car within a three hour drive of my home. I've examined it, driven it, and satisfied myself that I won't find a better one in the price range I have set for myself.

In a way, I feel foolish ... Most of the comments were from folks who sincerely appeared to want to help me. Some were a little snarky and made me feel like a fool
who didn't know what he was doing, and I guess they were right too. But all of the
experts here had to face the same challenges as me when they started out. Perhaps that was so long ago that they've forgotten it.

What's really impressive, and makes me feel good, is that almost 1,600 people have followed the thread. And think about it ... they wouldn't have followed it if they didn't, perhaps, have the same concerns as me. Perhaps a few other folks have benefited from the wisdom expressed here by you experts.

I couldn't sleep last night. Kept thinking about my new car. Believe me, it's a winner. I'm sure I'll post again in the future, as I discover all the unexpected problems my dream car will turn out to have. But I do want to thank all the sages who shared their wisdom with me ... and the 1,260 viewers who benefited too.

Thanks to you all. Cheers, Dave Young

I've decided I'm going to live forever .... so far, so good.

[al's28/33]

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Dave you better keep this new Model "A" of yours in tip-top operating condition if you expect to be around for so long. Change the oil every 500 miles and lube all the fittings. Check the brakes and top off fluids and be prepared to get dirty and share all your road adventures with all of us!

[ronn]

and be sure to show us alot of photos when you can.

congratulations!

[Anteek29]

Hooray...you sound like a happy camper! We wanna see pics

[Dave Young]

Dave ... Thanks for your comments. Good advice, but if you've followed the thread you'll see that I found a car, a few hours away, and bought it!

It intrigues me that we share the same name. I've been Dave Young for many, many years and I've never run across another. Recently, I bought a pair of headphones at a Sam Ash (music store) and the clerk asked me if I had ever purchased from a Sam Ash store before. When I answered 'yes'. he punched the name up in the computer and there were 42 Dave Young's there. And they were obviously just musicians! Wow, I never would have suspected we were that common. I always assumed I was the only one.

Anyway, I just wanted to say hello ... I'm a Jersey guy too. Lived (north Jersey)) for nearly fifty years. Now, I live in Pennsylvania Dutch country ... among the Amish. Very interesting, but I still miss Jersey.

Incidentally, If your name is Dave Young, where does the 'Wilbur' come from?

Cheers, Dave

[Dodge]

I heard it from a talking horse.....

[TerryH]

Dave....Congrats on finding “your” Model A! Finding and buying the right one these days can be quite an experience, and as you found, can actually and be sure to post lots of fun. Welcome to the club, and be sure to post lots of photos.