49-53 mercury flathead oil pump help

[gringo]

replaced the oil pan gasket on my 50 mercury engine and when I did I pulled the oil pump so I could scrape the gasket off, got everything assembled and no oil pressure, pulled it apart and found a lock washer jammed in the oil pump gears, the gear in the block is not turning when cranking the engine, question is what damage has been done and does the pump run off a gear on the cam?

thanks for any help

[19Fordy]

This info may help. I would remove the lock washer and restart the engine to see if it now has oil pressure. First make sure the oil pump and oil pump idler gears are turning free.

[36tbird]

In my over zealous youth as I tried to get every part in the engine as clean as possible prior to assembly, I put an oil pump together dry. The engine would not turn over when it was finally put together. The wisdom was that it was just too tight for the starter to work so we decided to tow the car, put it in gear and pop the clutch. That worked and the engine fired right up but alas without oil pressure. Finally we discovered that we had spun the oil pump drive gear on the cam shaft. I suspect that you may have done the same because of the washer stuck in the o.p. gears.

[gringo]

Originally Posted by 36tbird

In my over zealous youth as I tried to get every part in the engine as clean as possible prior to assembly, I put an oil pump together dry. The engine would not turn over when it was finally put together. The wisdom was that it was just too tight for the starter to work so we decided to tow the car, put it in gear and pop the clutch. That worked and the engine fired right up but alas without oil pressure. Finally we discovered that we had spun the oil pump drive gear on the cam shaft. I suspect that you may have done the same because of the washer stuck in the o.p. gears.

yes, the gear that drives the oil pump is not turning when engine is turned over, so now the cam needs removed to repair this ? also the oil pump wont turn by hand after I cleared the lock washer , I believe one of the shafts the gears run on is bent also

[gringo]

thanks 19fordy for that info, in the pics it shows there maybe an acces to the drive gear from the back of the block is that correct ?, trying to figure out if its something that can be repaired without dismantling the engine

[19Fordy]

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The oil pump idler gear is pressed in. It's under the cover.

[gringo]

ok, thanks 19fordy these gears are turning freely and trying to figure out how the gears come out, the large gear has a threaded hole so some type of puller is needed I suppose

[Ol' Ron]

This cannot be repaired with the cam in block. Most of these cams have a flat spot on them to prevent slipping. Unfortunately you'll have to replace the cam. Been there done that.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Ol' Ron

This cannot be repaired with the cam in block. Most of these cams have a flat spot on them to prevent slipping. Unfortunately you'll have to replace the cam. Been there done that.

Ol Ron shouldn't he be able to look at the end of the cam/gear and tell if it has move out of position. I would think that you could see if the indexing was off and the gear slipping when there is enough resistance. Might try wedging something into the idler gear to hold it and see if the cam gear slips when you attempt to rotate the cam. Not a lot of pressure, just something to simulate the resistance of the oil pump.

[19Fordy]

" these gears are turning freely"

I am surmising that if those gears are turning freely there is no need to take them out.
Are the gears in the oil pump still turning?

[Mart]

If the smaller gear is turning freely it has broken loose from the cam. This is what you need to fix.

Can't offer any advice, it's never happened to me.

Mart.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

A lot of cams do not have the flat spot to hole the gear ( I don't know why they didn't flat spots on all cams) There's no doubt yours don't have the flat, and with the pump bound up with the washer it has spun the gear on the cam. To pull the idle gear use a slide hammer and with a 3/8 course thread stud and thump the shaft out. The bad thing is it's probably worn the end of the cam so a new gear won't press on tight. If by any chance a new gear fit's tight (witch I dougt) have a friend use a pry bar against one of the cam lobes and with some lock tight on the end of the cam and gear drive the new gear on. Good luck. Walt

[gringo]

crap!! this isn't looking or sounding good, I got the gears out, the one on the cam was spinning, thought this would have a keyway. nope, is it supposed to have a slight flat spot ? pretty rounded on the cam end if its supposed to, doubting a new gear would fit tight.

[trainguy]

I wonder how good the engine is having been run without a oil pump?

[gringo]

Originally Posted by trainguy

I wonder how good the engine is having been run without a oil pump?

I shut it down right away when I seen no oil pressure

[Brian]

A little trick I incorporate in all my builds is to drill and tap between cam and gear and fit a grubscrew as a 'scotch key'. Actually, because I exclusively use press on type timing gear/ early cams, I do the same each end. The fitting of scotch keys, prevents any radial or longititudinal movement of gears on shafts.

[Init1]

Chances are things are bent or broken. You should bite the bullet and pull the engine so you can check the cam gear, idler gear and oil pump shaft and gear.
Might as well pull a couple rod caps and check those bearings since it ran with no oil pressure.

[RandyMettler]

I am new to Ford Barn an don't know the unwritten rules. It may be unappropriated to interject a thread with my related problems but here goes.
Please correct me if I am wrong.

I have a 8BA and also have no oil pressure on my gage at idle. When engine is reved in neutral I get about 25 to 30 on the gage. All the gages are not factory and have been switched to a 12 volt system. All the gages don't appear to read accurately. Regardless of my faulty gage suspicion, the no oil pressure cannot be ignored as far as I am concerned.

My question is should my initial attempt to see what is going on is to drop the oil pan? Will there be a oil pickup with a screen visible on the 8BA, like newer model cars? Is there other things I can check at this step when the pan is dropped?

I have only driven the car a couple of times and it runs hot. I installed a new aluminum radiator and pulled and checked the water pumps and inspected the inside of the block for blockage and set the tappet lash on the valves. I advanced the timing slightly. All good. This leads me to believe the overheating is an oil pressure related problem.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Gringo, I hope your solution is as painless as possible.

Regards,

Randy

[19Fordy]

Randy, Can you install a mechanical gauge? The one on the dash may be "off".

[RandyMettler]

I am not opposed to that idea. Do the simplest test first. Where would the oil pressure sensor be located on a 8BA block? If you know, please reply.

Regards