The Ford Barn

Phil · 03-08-2013, 10:54 AM

Hi, I have a '51 convertible I finished up a couple years ago. Never had wired the overdrive. It has kinda been a mystery to me. A friend suggested I simply run power to the solinoid through a switch under the dash. He said hook to the screw terminal marked 6. I did nothing, I then ohmed out and terminal 4 looked like the solinoid coil. Hooked switch wire to 4, it works.

I have searched the threads on overdrives learned a lot but still have several questions.

1 is terminal 4 correct and what is terminal 6 purpose?

2 I have been told (or read) not to push/pull freewheel cable while moving, is this correct?

3 I understand not to be in overdrive in reverse. Is being in freewheel and solinoid OFF ok in reverse?

4 While not being something you would do regularly would taking off from a dead stop in overdrive put too much strain on the od? I understand the clutch issue here.

5 in the proper factory configuration is there a toggle switch on the dash to turn overdrive on? If not that means that there is power to the solinoid any time driving above governer speed?

I know that is a lot of questions, but thanks for any help. Phil

Mike51Merc · 03-08-2013, 11:54 AM

First, get yourself a schematic and/or a manual. There's plenty around in Ford books and other Borg-Warner documents.

You can run a dash switch, but if you have all the parts why not do it right? I have the original system plus an override switch to manually engage.

My relay has words instead of numbers, so I can't relate to what you wrote. One is for power in from the ignition coil. One is to the solenoid, and the third is the trigger. The trigger runs through the kickdown switch to the governor switch. The governor activates the relay (and turns ON solenoid) by grounding when your speed exceeds 26+/- MPH and it releases at 23+/- MPH.

The OD system has three states of being:
a) enabled but disengaged. (lever is set, but solenoid is inactive)
b) enabled and engaged. (lever is set and solenoid is activated by gov switch over 26 MPH)
c) disabled. (lever disables system)

If you toggle the solenoid ON, you'll be upshifted. You can't use reverse and you'll start from a dead stop in First-Over which is roughly equal to starting in second gear.

There is no factory toggle, meaning YES there is always power available to the solenoid over 26MPH even if your cable lever has disabled the OD.

Phil · 03-08-2013, 12:52 PM

Hi Mike, thanks for the quick reply. I do not have the relay and kick down switch. The terminals numbered 4 and 6 are on the solenoid not a relay. Is it ok to move the lever in and out of freewheel while car is moving? ( I have been told this is risky to the OD unit)
Is it ok to be in reverse in freewheel with OD off? Thanks Phil.

trainguy · 03-08-2013, 01:11 PM

On the solonoid one wire opperates the sol.,the other wire mometarily grounds the points to allow the pawl to disingage the OD when the kick down switch is engaged.Get your self a diagram.You can find one by Googling stewart warner overdrive.The 1951 does not have a lock out switch,so solonoid is opperating even if you are not in OD.I put toggel switch to disable the solonoid. It would be a good idea to get the relay,the kick down switch is nice but not necessary.

Phil · 03-08-2013, 01:16 PM

Thanks Trainguy, I will, this temporary hook up just came up and I wanted make sure the OD functioned before rounding up the rest of the electrics needed. Phil

trainguy · 03-08-2013, 01:38 PM

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Phil, Have you cheched the sol?Remove it form the trans.Remove the cover.You can see the wire that run the sol.There are 2 contacts. one set runs the sol holding coil,the other are the interupter for grounding the ignition for kick down.whie you have it apart clean the points.You can test the sol by connecting it momentarly to a battery .You will se the stem move back and forth.This is what engages the pawl to stop the pklanetary ring thus engaging the overdrive.It would take a healthy toggel switch to run the sol.,this why they have the relay to handle the current.To remove the sol. you remove the [2]5/16 screws and turn the sol 90 deg. to remove it from the pawl.When installing reverse the proceedure. Phil

trainguy · 03-08-2013, 01:42 PM

Normally most OD problem are elect.IF the free wheeling work the OD will work when hooked up electricaly.I just went thru what you going thru .I have mine working great.It is well worth the effort.

Willit Stop · 03-08-2013, 01:49 PM

Phil.....This might help.
http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/ovrdrive.htm

Mike51Merc · 03-08-2013, 02:16 PM

Trainguy is right. One solenoid terminal is the activator, the other is the "engine killer". If you're testing with an ohmmeter, the Engine Killer closes to ground when (only when) the solenoid is activated, otherwise it's an open circuit.

When OD is active, the Engine Killer acts to short out your ignition (when you floor the gas pedal) to momentarily stall the engine when you want to kickdown out of OD (sometimes called "Passing Gear"). The kickdown switch is double poled. When pressed it kills power to the solenoid and kills the engine until the solenoid retracts. When the solenoid retracts the ignition is restored. Simple and brilliant at the same time.

You can get an OD relay for about $100.00 and a kickdown switch for about $35.00. I'd say it's worth the investment.

KGS · 03-08-2013, 02:36 PM

Phil, Here's a link to the Old Car Manual Project. On this page , use the search function and type in "Borg-Warner O/D unit". It should be helpful to you and your project. Ken
http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/

Phil · 03-08-2013, 02:55 PM

Thanks all- for the help and resources. OD is working well with toggle switch. I will get the relay and kick down. Here is a picture on the car.

rotorwrench · 03-08-2013, 03:04 PM

This is an illustration from the 49 to 51 Lincoln & Mercury O'H Manual. Some of the later models don't use the lockout switch. You may have to open it in a new window & resize it with the edit function. The system was designed to protect against the solenoid function in reverse.

Mike51Merc · 03-08-2013, 03:34 PM

Phil,
That's a sweet ride. You've been driving it for a couple of YEARS with no overdrive?

trainguy · 03-08-2013, 03:43 PM

Phil Are you using the governor?

40cpe · 03-08-2013, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil

Hi Mike, thanks for the quick reply. I do not have the relay and kick down switch. The terminals numbered 4 and 6 are on the solenoid not a relay. Is it ok to move the lever in and out of freewheel while car is moving? ( I have been told this is risky to the OD unit)
Is it ok to be in reverse in freewheel with OD off? Thanks Phil.

No one answered your questions:

You can operate the free-wheel lever when moving as long as the transmission is not in overdrive and the engine is pulling, not decelerating.

You can use reverse while in the freewheel position and out of overdrive. That is normal operation.

There was no toggle switch in the factory wiring. The relay and solenoid are energized when the car reaches the speed that the governor kicks in, normally about 28 mph.

Mike51Merc · 03-08-2013, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trainguy

Phil Are you using the governor?

He can't use the governor because he has no relay.

trainguy · 03-08-2013, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike51Merc

He can't use the governor because he has no relay.

Thats right,my bad

Phil · 03-08-2013, 05:24 PM

Thanks for the kind words and help. 40cpe thank you!! Those were the answers I have been looking for! Only put about 900 miles since completion just around town. Life and several other old cars got in the way of any real touring. Mayby this spring. I drove it to the post office today, came out and spent 15 or 20 minuets talking to FIVE different people about the one dad, grand pa, uncle or brother had and how it brought back great memories. I love driving an old car!

03-08-2013, 10:54 AM	#1
Phil Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bethany, Ok Posts: 382	'51 overdrive questions Hi, I have a '51 convertible I finished up a couple years ago. Never had wired the overdrive. It has kinda been a mystery to me. A friend suggested I simply run power to the solinoid through a switch under the dash. He said hook to the screw terminal marked 6. I did nothing, I then ohmed out and terminal 4 looked like the solinoid coil. Hooked switch wire to 4, it works. I have searched the threads on overdrives learned a lot but still have several questions. 1 is terminal 4 correct and what is terminal 6 purpose? 2 I have been told (or read) not to push/pull freewheel cable while moving, is this correct? 3 I understand not to be in overdrive in reverse. Is being in freewheel and solinoid OFF ok in reverse? 4 While not being something you would do regularly would taking off from a dead stop in overdrive put too much strain on the od? I understand the clutch issue here. 5 in the proper factory configuration is there a toggle switch on the dash to turn overdrive on? If not that means that there is power to the solinoid any time driving above governer speed? I know that is a lot of questions, but thanks for any help. Phil

03-08-2013, 11:54 AM	#2
Mike51Merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,582	Re: '51 overdrive questions First, get yourself a schematic and/or a manual. There's plenty around in Ford books and other Borg-Warner documents. You can run a dash switch, but if you have all the parts why not do it right? I have the original system plus an override switch to manually engage. My relay has words instead of numbers, so I can't relate to what you wrote. One is for power in from the ignition coil. One is to the solenoid, and the third is the trigger. The trigger runs through the kickdown switch to the governor switch. The governor activates the relay (and turns ON solenoid) by grounding when your speed exceeds 26+/- MPH and it releases at 23+/- MPH. The OD system has three states of being: a) enabled but disengaged. (lever is set, but solenoid is inactive) b) enabled and engaged. (lever is set and solenoid is activated by gov switch over 26 MPH) c) disabled. (lever disables system) If you toggle the solenoid ON, you'll be upshifted. You can't use reverse and you'll start from a dead stop in First-Over which is roughly equal to starting in second gear. There is no factory toggle, meaning YES there is always power available to the solenoid over 26MPH even if your cable lever has disabled the OD.

03-08-2013, 12:52 PM	#3
Phil Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bethany, Ok Posts: 382	Re: '51 overdrive questions Hi Mike, thanks for the quick reply. I do not have the relay and kick down switch. The terminals numbered 4 and 6 are on the solenoid not a relay. Is it ok to move the lever in and out of freewheel while car is moving? ( I have been told this is risky to the OD unit) Is it ok to be in reverse in freewheel with OD off? Thanks Phil.

03-08-2013, 01:11 PM	#4
trainguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lehighton Pa Posts: 1,085	Re: '51 overdrive questions On the solonoid one wire opperates the sol.,the other wire mometarily grounds the points to allow the pawl to disingage the OD when the kick down switch is engaged.Get your self a diagram.You can find one by Googling stewart warner overdrive.The 1951 does not have a lock out switch,so solonoid is opperating even if you are not in OD.I put toggel switch to disable the solonoid. It would be a good idea to get the relay,the kick down switch is nice but not necessary.

03-08-2013, 01:16 PM	#5
Phil Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bethany, Ok Posts: 382	Re: '51 overdrive questions Thanks Trainguy, I will, this temporary hook up just came up and I wanted make sure the OD functioned before rounding up the rest of the electrics needed. Phil

03-08-2013, 01:38 PM	#6
trainguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lehighton Pa Posts: 1,085	Re: '51 overdrive questions Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Phil, Have you cheched the sol?Remove it form the trans.Remove the cover.You can see the wire that run the sol.There are 2 contacts. one set runs the sol holding coil,the other are the interupter for grounding the ignition for kick down.whie you have it apart clean the points.You can test the sol by connecting it momentarly to a battery .You will se the stem move back and forth.This is what engages the pawl to stop the pklanetary ring thus engaging the overdrive.It would take a healthy toggel switch to run the sol.,this why they have the relay to handle the current.To remove the sol. you remove the [2]5/16 screws and turn the sol 90 deg. to remove it from the pawl.When installing reverse the proceedure. Phil

03-08-2013, 01:42 PM	#7
trainguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lehighton Pa Posts: 1,085	Re: '51 overdrive questions Normally most OD problem are elect.IF the free wheeling work the OD will work when hooked up electricaly.I just went thru what you going thru .I have mine working great.It is well worth the effort.

03-08-2013, 01:49 PM	#8
Willit Stop Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Eureka Calif. Posts: 969	Re: '51 overdrive questions Phil.....This might help. http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/ovrdrive.htm

03-08-2013, 02:16 PM	#9
Mike51Merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,582	Re: '51 overdrive questions Trainguy is right. One solenoid terminal is the activator, the other is the "engine killer". If you're testing with an ohmmeter, the Engine Killer closes to ground when (only when) the solenoid is activated, otherwise it's an open circuit. When OD is active, the Engine Killer acts to short out your ignition (when you floor the gas pedal) to momentarily stall the engine when you want to kickdown out of OD (sometimes called "Passing Gear"). The kickdown switch is double poled. When pressed it kills power to the solenoid and kills the engine until the solenoid retracts. When the solenoid retracts the ignition is restored. Simple and brilliant at the same time. You can get an OD relay for about $100.00 and a kickdown switch for about $35.00. I'd say it's worth the investment.

03-08-2013, 02:36 PM	#10
KGS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Schooley's Mountain Posts: 530	Re: '51 overdrive questions *Phil, Here's a link to the Old Car Manual Project. On this page , use the search function and type in "Borg-Warner O/D unit". It should be helpful to you and your project. Ken* http://www.oldcarmanualproject.com/

03-08-2013, 03:34 PM	#13
Mike51Merc Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northeast Pennsylvania Posts: 1,582	Re: '51 overdrive questions Phil, That's a sweet ride. You've been driving it for a couple of YEARS with no overdrive?

03-08-2013, 03:43 PM	#14
trainguy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lehighton Pa Posts: 1,085	Re: '51 overdrive questions Phil Are you using the governor?

03-08-2013, 05:24 PM	#18
Phil Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bethany, Ok Posts: 382	Re: '51 overdrive questions Thanks for the kind words and help. 40cpe thank you!! Those were the answers I have been looking for! Only put about 900 miles since completion just around town. Life and several other old cars got in the way of any real touring. Mayby this spring. I drove it to the post office today, came out and spent 15 or 20 minuets talking to FIVE different people about the one dad, grand pa, uncle or brother had and how it brought back great memories. I love driving an old car!