Cylinder head replacing questions.

[philcobill]

I am in the middle of changing a head gasket and want to do it the "right way." However, this is my first time and I have a lot of questions. There are a several YouTube videos covering this subject, and they all contain great information, but I have some gaps of knowledge which I was like to have filled as well as possible.

1. The job is necessary because the gasket blew. See my previous posts. I decided to go with the head what was already on the engine because it looks in good condition and was not leaking to the outside. If I can get more life out of it until it fails in the future, I can always replace it with a new head.

2. The head is aluminum and assumed to be high compression. approx 5.5 to 1


3. The gasket is the 509g B-6051-XO gasket which has been recommended for my situation. If there is a better one, let me know. I was told to stay away from copper clad gaskets.


4. I have been able to clean up the head, but sure if I really need to re-mill it because it fit all right before the blow out. The deck looks flat. Should I have it milled anyway?



5. I have done an initial cleanup of the block. There was a bit of gunk on it. How clean does it need to be? It is difficult to scrape off the gunk around the valves and I am afraid of getting the gunk into places it shoud not go.


6. What should I do about the stud holes? It looks like there is gunk at the bottom of most of them.


7. I cleaned out rust in the number 4 hole. It was definitely plugged up and is clear now.


8. What kind of sealant should I use with the gasket I am using?


9. If I am missing something, let me know.


Bill
Walworth, NY

[nkaminar]

I have had my best luck with the copper spray gasket cement. Make sure the surfaces are clean. Wipe them down with acetone.

Use a straight edge on the head to make sure it is flat. There should be no gaps more than 0.001 inch. If you have it milled (best practice) have the clearances for the pistons re machined to the original depth.

Clean out the stud holes in the head. You can just use the right size drill bit and just turn by hand. If you need to, use locking pliers on the drill bit. Put some anti seize on the studs to keep the aluminum from galvanic corrosion. Use stainless washers on top of the studs to keep the holes in the aluminum head from caving in at the top.

Torque to 55 ft-lbs in the proper sequence and in 20 ft-lb increments. Run the engine until warm and let it cool over night. Then re-torque the nuts. Run 100 miles and re-torque with engine cold. Re-torque after 500 miles with cold engine. Continue to re-torque every 6 months.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Neil, I'm not sure I would recommend using a copper spray on a graphite gasket.

Bill, I would need to see the RA finish of the deck on the block and the head to say whether I would recommend using that head gasket. Has someone knowledgable that has seen those surfaces recommended that gasket??

[Bob Bidonde]

To prevent galvanic corrosion of your aluminum cylinder head, you need to have a sacrificial metal in the coolant. See Bratton's 8030.


Vacuum out the debris from the bottom of the stud holes in the cylinder block. Install the studs in the block hand tight to avoid breaking-out the bottoms of cavities.

[Bruce of MN]

A standard tap will cut away too much metal in the stud holes, use a chaser/thread restorer such as this:

https://www.toolsid.com/lang-tools/2...-mpn-2581.html

[philcobill]

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Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Bill, I would need to see the RA finish of the deck on the block and the head to say whether I would recommend using that head gasket. Has someone knowledgable that has seen those surfaces recommended that gasket??

I am not sure how to figure out the RA finish. Is there is a way to measure it?

[alexiskai]

Originally Posted by philcobill

I am in the middle of changing a head gasket and want to do it the "right way." However, this is my first time and I have a lot of questions. There are a several YouTube videos covering this subject, and they all contain great information, but I have some gaps of knowledge which I was like to have filled as well as possible.

1. The job is necessary because the gasket blew. See my previous posts. I decided to go with the head what was already on the engine because it looks in good condition and was not leaking to the outside. If I can get more life out of it until it fails in the future, I can always replace it with a new head.

2. The head is aluminum and assumed to be high compression. approx 5.5 to 1


3. The gasket is the 509g B-6051-XO gasket which has been recommended for my situation. If there is a better one, let me know. I was told to stay away from copper clad gaskets.


4. I have been able to clean up the head, but sure if I really need to re-mill it because it fit all right before the blow out. The deck looks flat. Should I have it milled anyway?



5. I have done an initial cleanup of the block. There was a bit of gunk on it. How clean does it need to be? It is difficult to scrape off the gunk around the valves and I am afraid of getting the gunk into places it shoud not go.


6. What should I do about the stud holes? It looks like there is gunk at the bottom of most of them.


7. I cleaned out rust in the number 4 hole. It was definitely plugged up and is clear now.


8. What kind of sealant should I use with the gasket I am using?


9. If I am missing something, let me know.


Bill
Walworth, NY

Not typically one to plug my own videos, but they do cover some of this stuff. In particular, I have one on cleaning gunk out of the block stud holes in a non-abrasive way.

I strongly recommend a thorough cleaning of both the block and the head down to bare metal before you proceed. You can buy nylon-based abrasive discs that fit a drill chuck and won't scar the cast iron. For aluminum you have to get a softer disc but the principle is the same.

I'd also recommend investing in a machinist's straightedge, aka precision straightedge. It's the only way to actually determine whether the block or head are warped and to what degree.

[Bruce of MN]

These are good for cleaning gasket residue from head and block

https://www.acehardware.com/departme...-brushes/23986

I’ve also used wire brushes with my dremel. Use eye protection, they shed bristles!

[alexiskai]

I've had good results on cast iron with green-type Rol-Loc bristle discs, and this wheel worked great for trouble spots.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by philcobill

I am not sure how to figure out the RA finish. Is there is a way to measure it?

Yes Bill, there is a machine that we use for this. It is called an Optical Profilometer.

Maybe I should not have engaged in this thread, but I did so because you said you wanted to do things correctly. What I am struggling with is "why" did the first head gasket fail to begin with? As Neil stated, you need to use a precision straight edge to verify the deck surface is indeed flat. That is generally the number one reason. Also, over-torquing the head nuts is another. Most hobbyists do not own a ground straight edge, and using a framing square or a carpenter's level is not the same.

Next, the head gasket you are proposing to use requires a very flat surface and a fine RA finish so it will seal. That is why I asked if you had someone who was knowledgeable (a true engine machinist and not just a hobbyist) who had actually inspected your engine block to recommend using that gasket. There are Pros & Cons for using it or not. That particular gasket is a modern gasket that has expectations that the deck surfaces must be extremely flat and very smooth as the core does not conform like a core-filled copper gasket does. The benefit of this gasket is it does not 'move' like a copper gasket, so it does not need re-torquings like a copper gasket would. Matter of fact, retorquing this gasket is not recommended by the manufacturer. The other thing this gasket does not like is scratches that can potentially be caused by using scuffing pads and wire wheels. Most people do not realize that a scuffing pad actually can remove cast iron fairly easily because it is a soft metal. If I have an engine block mounted into my Block Resurfacer where I can use a dial indicator to sweep the block across the entire plane, I can show you how there will be numerous valleys created where the scuffing pad took off a little more in certain areas and created a divot or a void. Most of the time these will only be 0.002"-0.003" (a typical human hair thickness is about 0.002") deep, however that number is greater than what that gasket can seal.

I could go on, but I will step aside and let others guide you as to what they feel is the proper method for you to proceed.

[Bruce of MN]

These abrasive brushes can be selected in a fine grit and without measuring, seem to not remove metal. My success with copper spray on graphite after using rol-loc brushes and dremel wire wheels makes me think a light touch can get good results.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by Bruce of MN

These abrasive brushes can be selected in a fine grit and without measuring, seem to not remove metal. My success with copper spray on graphite after using rol-loc brushes and dremel wire wheels makes me think a light touch can get good results.

Bruce, the key words you say is ‘seem not to remove metal’ however that is my point. When you use a dial indicator to sweep the block, the deck surface will show unevenness after someone has used the Scotchbrite-style scuffing pad. Albeit much slower, using a chemical solvent, a cloth rag, and some elbow grease is a much better way to clean a deck surface.

IMO, based on Bill’s scenario of not knowing how level his deck surface is, I would feel better using a copper clad gasket with a core in this repair. Depending on the scratches or damage would determine whether I would use a copper spray or whether I would just anneal the gasket.

[Bruce of MN]

Knowing your attention to detail, I knew that you would spot “seemed”. I also threw in “without measuring”. My good experience is with just one head install, so maybe it was luck.

[philcobill]

The first photo shows where the gasket leaked. You can see it clearly at the place where it looks like the gasket was torn/blown out.

This is what happened. The car overheated and rusty water came out of the radiator overflow. After the engine cooled down, I put filled up the radiator with fresh water to the baffle. I then ran the car for about 5 or 10 minutes, and the radiator coolant was way down, but the engine stayed "cool". Of note was that the engine ran smoothly. I then did a cylinder compression test on all cylinders. Cylinder number 2 spewed coolant as I did the test and it was the only one that had reduced compression from the last test. After draining the oil, I noticed a small amount of water in the crankcase. So, I had no choice but to take the head off to find out what was going on. It looks like the gasket blow between Cylinder 2 and the middle coolant portal/jacket, and not between cylinders as most people experience.

The second photo is one of the entire gasket. I am not sure what type it is, but I imagine it was on the engine for at least 30 years. If you can determine what type of gasket this is, I would be interested.

[philcobill]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Bruce, the key words you say is ‘seem not to remove metal’ however that is my point. When you use a dial indicator to sweep the block, the deck surface will show unevenness after someone has used the Scotchbrite-style scuffing pad. Albeit much slower, using a chemical solvent, a cloth rag, and some elbow grease is a much better way to clean a deck surface.

IMO, based on Bill’s scenario of not knowing how level his deck surface is, I would feel better using a copper clad gasket with a core in this repair. Depending on the scratches or damage would determine whether I would use a copper spray or whether I would just anneal the gasket.

Well, as I don't have a dial indicator and do not know anyone that does (I have not asked yet) let alone how to use one, where do I go from here? I would like to make the repairs to my car myself, but I guess there are some things that may be over my head. I hope you understand from where I am coming from on this. The suggestion of having a machinist look at the decks looks like it is a good idea.

The deck surfaces have been cleaned and look smooth to me, (nothing rough to the touch, but the metal looks "stained") and I ran a straight edge (from Lowe's) across the full surface of the head, and as much as I could across the block, and did not note any high or low spots. I ordered a recommended Yellowhammer 24 inch Anodized Aluminum Straight Edge from Amazon, which is scheduled to arrive here later today. Maybe that will give me a more accurate reading.

I have been told to avoid copper gaskets because of the aluminum head. The theory is that using copper gaskets can cause corrosion on the surface of the aluminum.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Bill, pretty sure that type gasket has not been available for 30 years.

Not sure who said to avoid the copper gaskets but there is WAY more misinformation these days that accurate. As Bob stated above, a sacrificial anode is all that it takes.

The straight edge that you ordered is better than a Lowes straight edge however it still is far from accurate. It takes one that is precision ground. My Starrett straight edges are accurate to about one or two tenths of a thousandth of an inch.

At this point, just clean the surface up the best you can using solvents and rags to work it clean. Use a copper gasket such as the 7013 and apply a liberal coating of a sealant such as Copper Coat or Permatex's Copper Spray a Gasket. Then install with a maximum nut torque of 55#. Heat cycle and re-torque when cold. Save the graphite gasket for a use when the block and head are going to be resurfaced.

[philcobill]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

. Use a copper gasket such as the 7013 and apply a liberal coating of a sealant such as Copper Coat or Permatex's Copper Spray a Gasket. Then install with a maximum nut torque of 55#. Heat cycle and re-torque when cold. Save the graphite gasket for a use when the block and head are going to be resurfaced.

Just looked up the FEL-PRO Head Gasket 7013C. It is available from AutoZone, and other (auto parts stores?) Is that the one?

[chrs1961815]

Yes that it is it. That is what I use with no issues.

[philcobill]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

Not sure who said to avoid the copper gaskets but there is WAY more misinformation these days that accurate. As Bob stated above, a sacrificial anode is all that it takes.

The concern expressed to me is that the direct contact of the aluminum and copper causes the metal to become soft due to the galvanic reaction. I understand about the use of the zinc anode. And it makes sense to me.. This is so confusing.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by philcobill

The concern expressed to me is that the direct contact of the aluminum and copper causes the metal to become soft due to the galvanic reaction. I understand about the use of the zinc anode And it makes sense to me.. This is so confusing.

I feel that one thing that makes much of this confusing is there is SO much misinformation out there that causes the 'unexperienced' to struggle. Social media and YouTube are the absolute worst with producing misinformation.

To directly address the aluminum & copper electrolysis, did the 'expresser' mention anything about using certain antifreeze coolants, or distilled water, or the anode? Did they mention any timeline on how long these two materials would need to be in contact with each other? The short answer is likely they don't really know about what they are speaking of other than they read it somewhere, -and because it seemed believable to them they share half of the story as if they are well versed. There are many ways to circumvent the electrolysis where using an aluminum head with a copper gasket is not a huge issue.