Rebuilding my generator...

[Sunny the Model A]

Ok Y'all I have a question about the powerhouse generator on my late 31 wide-bed. I am in the process of rebuilding the generator and i have a few questions. First of all, how does one remove the oil cup on the rear plate? It is stuck and and it needs to be replaced. the second question is how does the bearing retainer go together? Les Andrews' book does not show how the bearing retainer is installed into the generator front plate. The generator was rebuilt a long time ago by the last guy and whoever did it last did not put in a retainer so I have no idea how it all is supposed to be. I am going to daily my truck so i need to get the generator up and running. This is my very first Model A by the way. Thanks in advance

[Tom Wesenberg]

Over the years I've posted lots of generator information and pictures, and a search should find what you need. Your generator is the more common Autolite style rather than the early Powerhouse generator, which was used into 1929.

Grab the oil cup with a Vice Grip, and it should pull out. Since you are replacing it, you don't care that it gets squeezed flat.

[Kurt in NJ]

If you take the round end of a drill that fits the oil cup hole ---then grab with pliers or vice grips it won't crush and many times can be saved if not already damaged

[Sunny the Model A]

Thanks Y'all, I got the cup out. I sort of got mad at it and cut the top off with a dremel and took a drill bit to catch it and pull it out. it was broken anyway so what ever On a different note how does the bearing retainer go in? I bought the retainer from Bert's and I am not sure how it is supposed to go in. my generator did not have one. all it had was a metal plate and then the bearing, there was nothing under or over the bearing. Also thanks for correcting me on the generators name.

[rotorwrench]

On the long bearing/bushing type used in 1931, the front bearing support has a felt seal cup with the felt ring that goes in first. A wave washer to stabilize the front bearing is next and then the bearing goes in The retainer plate holds the bearing in with the four rivets originally but now days are replaced with special screws and nuts that are available to do the job.All this stuff is generally placed on the armature to build it up in sequence with the bearing support going on last.

The Santa Anita As site has a good video of an overhaul for one of these types that will better explain what I'm stating here.
https://www.santaanitaas.org/technical-videos/

[Sunny the Model A]

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I thought that it looked funny, I pressed in the bearing without the felt seal, how do I get it out without destroying the brand new bearing? I have a bearing puller but I don't want to press on the inner race so either the last guy didn't know better or just forgot to put it in. All that was under the bearing was crud and dirt

[bobbader]

You don't have to remove the bearing. The felt seal goes in front of the bearing. It is sandwiched between the wave washer mentioned before and the bearing retainer. The felt seal actually originally served 2 functions. First as per its title, it provided a dust seal. But, it also served to absorb the oil fed into the oiler hole and deposit some oil on the bearing. Today, with double plastic seals on the bearing, this oiling operation is not as necessary. It still helps keep dust out of the chamber but, as the bearing is lubed for life and closed by the plastic seals, it no longer serves the lubrication function.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Here's a link to the exploded view of the generator armature and parts installed on it. Your generator should have a rear bushing, so you can ignore the ball bearing assembly shown on the 1929 exploded view. Look at the picture in my reply #2. Make sure the retainer goes on the front of the shaft before the bearing is pressed in place.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...+exploded+view

[Sunny the Model A]

Thanks Y'all I appreciate it. I have my parts setup for re assembly. I am waiting on my armature from mikes a"ford"able. they sent me the wrong one by mistake. So the rebuild is on hold until the armature shows up. it should be a week from now before I get my armature. i will get back to show the finished product.

[Sunny the Model A]

Ok yall, sorry for the long wait, but my old computer gave up the ghost and I had to get a new one. but I got the generator on and it runs perfectly! the only issue now with the electrical system is a draw whenever I turn on the ignition switch. I think it is either a short in my distributer I also rebuilt, or it is in the switch itself. all the wiring is immaculate and nothing appears to be out of place. but I want to hear your thoughts on the matter.

[Big hammer]

Points stuck on the generator cut out? Remove the belt and see if generator turns on its own. Insulate the distributor points with cardboard and see if that's the draw.

[katy]

Originally Posted by Sunny the Model A

the only issue now with the electrical system is a draw whenever I turn on the ignition switch

Check if the points are closed or open before turning the key on, if the points are closed the ammeter will show a draw, if the points are open there should be no draw.

[Bruce of MN]

Watching the ammeter bounce while you crank the engine also shows you that the points are opening and closing as desired.

[Patrick L.]

So the draw is whenever the key is on ? My questions are: whether points are open or closed ? And, how much draw ?

[Sunny the Model A]

Ok y'all here is all the details. My generator has the diode installed, so it isn't the relay cause it doesn't have one the draw according the ammeter is 4-5 amps. I thought that it could possibly be the ignition cable shorting the plate {it is a bone stock distributer, except the drilled shaft} another symptom is the pop out switch is a little stiff. It acts like it is rubbing on something sticky if that makes sense. I pulled the cable from the coil to the distributer and it still draws the same amount; the points were open as well. Also the generator makes the ammeter "flicker" slightly at idle and it gets more violent as it comes off idle.

[rotorwrench]

With the pop out switch disconnected from the coil (red wire), the coil can get no ground unless there is a short in that red wire. If the red wire is still connected to the pop out but the cable assembly has been removed from the distributor then there is no place for it to short. It's just a single wire inside that connects the pop out switch to the lower plate in the distributor. If the pop out is sticky then there should be a push button or provision to depress the release button inside the pop out to allow the pop out mechanism to be removed for cleaning and lubrication. There should be a way to fix the sticky switch.

Some diode in a can set ups are pretty stout but some are cheap and can fail under harsh conditions. They either blow out which allows no current flow at all or they leak back the direction that they are not supposed to allow. There should be no leakage more than 50-milliamps.

I'm not a fan of the modern reproduction ammeters. You might try disconnecting it to see where the needle goes. Original ammeters are a lot better than any of the reproductions I've come across.

If there is a current draw while the car is not running and the ignition is not ON, you may have a problem with some other circuit. The lighting circuits are all hot until switched on and so is the horn. The most common cause of trouble for the 1930 & 31 cars is the brake light switch. The reproduction ones are available but mixed. The cheap one is complete crap and the expensive one is as good as they get but generally works OK. Many a battery has been drained by a sticky or otherwise malfunctioning brake light switch.

[Sunny the Model A]

luckily, my brake light switch is fine at the moment. but, to clarify; the draw only appears when I switch on the pop out switch. the red wire has not been disconnected, i disconnected the wire that connects the coil to the distributer cap. I made sure the points were open before switching on the pop out. the pop out made the ammeter show a 4 amp draw until I gave a firm twist to the key and the draw went away.

[rotorwrench]

The high tension lead is connected to the secondary coil which gets it's high voltage through induction. It has no complete electrical circuit connected to it. I would check your primary and secondary coil resistance levels. If not within normal parameters then the coil has a problem. Only one end of the secondary coil is connected to the primary by design.

This is a good site for ignition coil information even if it is related to British cars.
https://mgaguru.com/mgtech/ignition/ig104.htm

The coil in a model A is hot on one of the primary terminals all the time as long as all the cars wiring from the battery is intact. The breaker side of the coil has to be grounded to complete the circuit. When the engine is not running, the breaker points don't open and close but they sometimes close when the car is shut off. If the Electrolock switch doesn't open the circuit in the "OFF" position, the coil turns into an electromagnet and can get very hot. They have been known to fry if left in this condition.

You may have a short or intermittent connection inside the pop out switch. Original type Electrolock switch assemblies are repairable. This link is to the service bulletin on them.
https://modelagarage.com/service_bul...e-electrolock/

Always isolate circuits when checking them. In situ checks will not help under a lot of conditions. Each wire should be checked separately. The Electrolock switch can be tested as a whole but it also needs to be disconnected from the distributor and the red wire from the coil. Continuity when on and no continuity when off plus no continuity between either terminal and the body of the assembly.

[Sunny the Model A]

Thanks mate. I just got back on the forums and just saw your reply. It is a short in the switch body. I discovered that when I pushed up on the switch from the rear after taking the panel off, the draw ceased. Money is tight at the moment, but it is just one more thing on the list am I right?