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08-26-2019, 04:55 PM | #1 |
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Help with transmission selection
Hi All,
I have a '48 (59 block) coming out of the machine shop soon and am trying to decide on the transmission. I have found several late 80's Ford Ranger manual trans at my local junk yard and would like to know anyone's opinion of them for my build. The Ranger transmissions range in vintage of 1989,1996 and an Explorer 1998 and a Courier 19https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=405179&stc=1&d=1566856 49280. |
08-26-2019, 05:47 PM | #2 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
That's a good question! Those transmission are plenty strong and are abundant and cheap.
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08-26-2019, 07:09 PM | #3 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Ratios are all over the map. Big gaps on some from 2nd to 3rd. Do some research on the different ratios. Great trans with 4th being overdrive.
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08-27-2019, 08:50 AM | #4 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
If you want your car to drive like a truck, use a truck transmission. Trucks, pickups, etc normally use very wide ratio gearing (large differences between one gear and another). That is because they are designed to pull/haul heavy loads. A high performance type of vehicle would more commonly use close ratio gearing (small differences between one gear and another). Then there are all the other in between. You need to select a transmission based on having the gearing you want (or one that is easy to change the gear ratios on), how well it fits in the space available in your application and how easy it is to adapt (are the parts available to make everything fit and work). Need to also keep in mind the clutch/pressure plate setup that will work and how easy it is to adapt the clutch linkage. There are some tried and true approaches with lots of supporting information. The T-5 is one of them, lots of information and parts available, but there are others.
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08-27-2019, 12:03 PM | #5 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
They are not a bad trans, check out the specs on them.
Worst case scenario is like a Lincoln Zephyr (2.33, 1.577, 1/1) with a added low first gear and a OD. Best case is, a close ratio 4 speed, with a OD and with a added 3.40 low first gear, that could win you some "stop light races". The only thing needed is a adapter But, in any Case, the ratio's are better than the standard '39 box (2.82, 1.604, 1/1). Frank |
08-27-2019, 12:20 PM | #6 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
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08-27-2019, 12:56 PM | #7 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
The M50-D has one of the shorter OD ratio's at .79 - .81, Giving a nice Fwy cruise gear of 2.99 - 3.06, when used with the common 3.78 gear ratio.
So, if your getting 66 mph at 3000 rpm and you use a .8 OD, that takes you to 2400 rpm at the same speed, I think that would be about ideal, with or w/o a street type cam. |
08-27-2019, 02:47 PM | #8 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
You sure have a different take on gear ratios than I do!!!! I prefer the 2.95 first gear T5s and wouldn't consider a 3.40 as a stop light killer, at least not in my world. But all of this depends on what your goal is. A low rear axle gear is what works for quick acceleration, but if you want a highway curser then that is a different matter. Not many true hot rodders left I guess, so it's not an issue for most.
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08-27-2019, 03:25 PM | #9 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Jerry,
There is only 3.75 mph difference, between a 3.4 and 2.95 gear ratio at 3800 rpm (28.38/24.63), with 28" diameter tires. But, you have to be very careful, selecting your T5 or, you will wind up with a 3.35, first gear. There is almost no difference for second gear but, the top 3 gears, are a little tighter in the M50-D. I'm NOT knocking the T-5, I have one but, with it's popularity, the prices have sky rocketed ($500 -1000). You an still find them for ~$300 and less, if the guy isn't up on the prices. Competition would keep the prices of both trans down. If only we could get a adapter. |
08-27-2019, 03:46 PM | #10 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
The mph difference isn't the issue it is the torque, with the 3.4 providing more torque than the 2.95. But the difference is in the rpm change on the engine torque curve when shifting between gears, which is less. Flatheads have a somewhat flat torque curve, so not the biggest issue in the world, but still the close ratio is worth the effort to me. Again, depends on where your interest lie. I run a quick-change, so could play with the rear axle ratio if I wanted to, but I like the 4.11 I currently have setup. It's still is fine on the highway in OD.
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08-29-2019, 12:12 AM | #11 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Jerry,
I found this and I think it will be very useful to anyone that is interested in gear ratio's and how they can effect your driving. One thing to keep in mind, is that RPM drop, effects the top gears, more than the lower gears because, you have more mechanical leverage in the lower gears but, as you go up in speed, you have less mechanical advantage but, more air and rolling resistance. In racing applications, you typically want a 1000 RPM drop or less, for your top gear. For a cruiser, the T-5 top gear (.68), will drop your RPM, to give better gas mileage and less noise and wear. It's hard to get a free lunch if you can't design and build your own trans. http://www.teammfactory.com/calculat...500/5500/1/0/2 In this case, it's set to compare the T-5 (lower) to the M50-D but, you can just change any of the inputs to what ever gear ratio's and tire size you want. The tire size I picked, was as close to a 8.20 x 15 tire as I could get. I hope you enjoy using it. Frank Last edited by frnkeore; 08-29-2019 at 12:25 AM. |
08-29-2019, 12:54 AM | #12 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
39 3 sp?
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08-29-2019, 01:15 AM | #13 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Something to consider for those that want to run hot cams, on the street, is that 3.35, T-5, 1st gear trans. With 4.11 or 4.54 gears, it will get you going better, from a stop, w/o stalling and even with a 4.54 rear gear, you have a final drive gear ratio of 3.09 and still have a very hard pulling car, in 2,3,4th.
I have a '48, F3 truck, with with 4.86 rear end and 33" tires. I put a AOD, behind the 302, giving a final drive ratio of 3.353 and that that lowered my 65 mph, RPM from 3200, to 2200 and much better MPG, on the fwy. Frank |
08-29-2019, 01:21 AM | #14 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Here's the 39 trans at 5500 & 3800 rpm and the 26 tooth Zephyr.
Last edited by frnkeore; 08-29-2019 at 01:28 AM. |
08-29-2019, 01:40 AM | #15 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
For a light car, say a '27 T, 1500-1800 lb, the -238 trans with 411's and a 400jr cam, would be a real terror. Thinking out loud
Frank Last edited by frnkeore; 08-29-2019 at 01:45 AM. |
08-29-2019, 01:54 AM | #16 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
It's a L head block. If you want to rip it up go with a early hemi or other.
Been driving flatheads for over a few decades. Don't tell me a transmission makes me a 9 sec 1/4 mile. I'll leave that to the guys that do under that. t5 is a great trans. lot to add. https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...-links.169265/ . Last edited by Tinker; 08-29-2019 at 02:13 AM. |
08-29-2019, 09:01 AM | #17 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Good thread. Good site you found frnkeore.
I ran some different numbers for a 1939 transmission including a Columbia Two-Speed rearend with 25 and 26 tooth Zephyr gears. I set the max RPM at 4,000. I have a set of the 25 tooth Lincoln Zephyr gears, a Columbia and 3.78 rear in my 32 roadster and love the combination. Glenn |
08-29-2019, 09:29 AM | #18 | |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Quote:
There are some rules of thumb for gear 1st gear to rear axle ratios (there are other factors, these are just starting guidelines). Drag Racing: 10 to 12 Street Performance: 8 to 9.5 The truck gears 3.35 1st gear X 4.11 rear axle = 13.77 3.35 1st gear X 4.55 rear axle = 15.24 Even with a higher rear axle ratio they have a high final drive ratio 3.35 X 3.78 = 12.7 3.35 X 3.50 = 11.7 3.35 X 3.25 = 10.9 And you still have the gear spread issue. Now the stock 39 and Zepher gears Stock 2.82 X 3.78 = 10.7 26T 2.33 X 3.78 = 8.8 25T 2.12 X 3.78 = 8.0 Now the stock 39 and Zepher gears with a 4.11 Stock 2.82 X 4.11 = 11.6 26T 2.33 X 4.11 = 9.6 25T 2.12 X 4.11 = 8.7 Last edited by JSeery; 08-29-2019 at 09:59 AM. |
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08-29-2019, 11:53 AM | #19 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
My point was being able to use a higher RPM cam, on the street and not having to worry about stalling the car, from a stop, in normal traffic. Once your going 20, or so, you won't stall, just bog down.
The other point, with the '27 T, was you would normally, have 13 - 15" wide tires, that's why I change the tire diameter on that application and that low gear, might get you a car length or more, off the line. Hard to make up, especially with the closer ratio's from 2nd through 4th and especially 5th, if you dare Anyway, as a road racer (Formula Atlantic, 6 yrs), I like that -238 trans. Remember the old B&M, 4 speed hydro's, especially in A/GS, they had a approx 3.8 first gear and no torque converter. |
08-29-2019, 12:34 PM | #20 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
I don't know of anyone who has ever mated a Mazda M50D series transmission to a flathead so I can't say much. They are a lot longer than many others out there. A T5 is long but they can have the shifter a bit farther forward than some.
The T170 RTS series have been used for a long time but they actually have a center shift top on them. They are a 3+1 shift with overdrive as the 4th gear. They had to get creative to get the 4th gear in there. The ones for the 302 V8 applications have the best overdrive ratio. They were used from 83 through 86 and a few in 87 in F150 pickups & Broncos with both 2WD and 4WD. One with a transfer case is no problem since the tail shaft is generally removed to adapt to the torque tube anyway. Since they were only manufactured for those few years, they are kind or rare now days. Folks keep converting them for model As and such and have been for a long time. Last edited by rotorwrench; 08-29-2019 at 06:32 PM. Reason: add Bronco to the list of applications for T170 RTS |
08-29-2019, 05:54 PM | #21 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Think I'll keep this thread. Whole lotta good ideas here. Any Minute we might hear from renobill.
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09-09-2019, 04:29 PM | #22 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Great stuff. It may take me 10 rereads to try and digest all these good comments. I am currently thinking a world-class T5 out of a mustang (1985-1996).There are a few mustangs in my local wrecking yard to check out. Thanks to all who commented.
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09-09-2019, 07:34 PM | #23 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
If you can locate the tag on the transmission it will ID the transmission for you. I see the chart I uploaded is not readable! But it is online.
I'm a big Ford T5 fan, but there are some things to consider: 1. Does not use the more common S-10 bellhousing mounting pattern and most adapters are the S-10 pattern. Check with Cornhuskers on an adapter. 2. The shifter location is further aft than the S-10 transmissions. You can switch out the tail housings which includes the shifter. There are other solutions as well. 3. The speedometer connection is a bit of an issue and may require an electronic sending unit. If the tail shaft is swapped and it is an early S-10 it will take a mechanical cable. There are other solutions. 4. Same situation on the front bearing retainer and input shaft dia and teeth count as with the mounting bolts, Ford is different than the more common S-10 conversion parts. And again, give Cornhuskers a call. Here are some links with the ID chart data: http://www.merkurencyclopedia.com/Tr...nsmission.html http://cornhuskerrodandcustom.net/ Last edited by JSeery; 09-09-2019 at 07:59 PM. |
09-09-2019, 09:24 PM | #24 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
come on jerry, you are being modest, show him your shifter you made. nice work
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09-10-2019, 02:04 PM | #25 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
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09-11-2019, 07:46 AM | #26 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
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09-11-2019, 03:29 PM | #27 | |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Quote:
JSeery…..You are the ONLY other person on this forum (beside myself) that I've seen use this quick and dirty formula to get you in the ballpark when putting a driveline together. It's not a perfect solution, but it will at least give you a starting point to prevent the assembly of a combination that just doesn't "work". As an extreme example, for many years now we've owned a '65 Corvette coupe, factory equipped with the 365 HP 327, 2.20 1st gear Muncie, along with a 3.55 Posi rear. That 2.20 X 3.55 equals a very low (numerical) 7.81. Believe me, that thing has no problem leaving a light and is such a pleasure going thru the close ratio gears. DD |
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09-11-2019, 03:54 PM | #28 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
My '67 327/350 has a 2.56 low four speed and 3.55's. That gives 9.088. Close ration boxes really like to have 4.56's. (10.32). There's a guy named Donny Brass with a '66 327/350 that has run a verified 12.34 quarter This is with a stock engine and 4.56's.
I have never had the nerve to really "pour the coal" to my car. I have too much time and money in it and couldn't stand to break anything. |
09-11-2019, 04:34 PM | #29 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
I have never had the nerve to really "pour the coal" to my car. I have too much time and money in it and couldn't stand to break anything.
I call it Fear and common sense. Bruce
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09-11-2019, 07:03 PM | #30 | |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Quote:
Hey....I think that any of us ol' geezers with a Mid-Year car probably have a little too much money and time in these things, but at least you're honest about your concerns. I've had this car for over 33 years now and pounded on it way back when... just prior to growing-up. I never broke it, though! Speaking of 4.56s, there's just no way that makes sense on anything other than a race car. I have an old FAA friend that bought a '65 coupe with a 396 brand new. He ordered it with a 4.11. I've ridden in that car more than once and driving it at just 70 or so drives you up a wall. Funny thing is that it was his only car for a while and he agonizes telling the story of driving it back and forth between Houston and Shreveport on weekends for a couple of years with that 4.11. Amazingly, he still owned that thing until four or five years ago. DD |
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09-11-2019, 08:04 PM | #31 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
DD - Well, you've got me beat; I've only had my '67 for 32 years. The first 25 years I had it (before I restored it), I "beat on it" plenty with no problems. Now? Just can't bring myself to do it. However, the first new car I ever bought (another '67 L79 coupe) had 3.70's. The first thing I did was change the tires to 915-15's in back. With those tires, that car was perfect (probably equivalent to the 215R75-15's I have on it now with the 3.55's, now that I think of it).
But I digress; any more of this O/T banter should probably be done in PM's. |
09-12-2019, 07:23 AM | #32 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Hi V8COOPMAN,
I thought the Muncie M20 close ratio only came if the rearend ratio was 4.11 and up in the 65. I know they sold the M20 as close and wide only in subsequent years changing to the M21 designation for the close ratio. Did you buy it with the close ratio or did it come with it if you had either the 365 or 375 HP options? Just curious that's all since I have an M20 wide ratio from a 64 in my 1940. I love the 65 coupes! Thanks, Glenn |
09-12-2019, 01:58 PM | #33 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Regarding the WC T-5's for Mustangs. They have a .63 or .68 OD fifth gear.
My F3 has a 4.86 rear gear in it and with that trans, I would have a 3.06/3.3 final drive ratio. Way higher geared than a standard Ford 3.78 rear. I put a AOD in my truck, to get a 3.26 final drive. Frank |
09-12-2019, 02:01 PM | #34 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
I had a 66 Cyclone GT with a 3.89 rear axle and it was pretty busy on the highway as well as tough on the gas mileage(family car at the time).
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09-12-2019, 02:27 PM | #35 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
I put 4.11's in my '58 Edsel, Corsair with a 410 MEL engine. It ran strong but, as you say "busy" and took plenty of gas that was .30 a gal, at that time but, in 1963 dollars. I quit driving it when I got my '60 Ford.
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09-13-2019, 10:55 AM | #36 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
My 69 el Camino came with stump puller rear gears in a 12-bolt but it's an automatic T400 set up. It's rpm is way up there at 70 so it'll get an OD trans one of these days. Since it's a light pickup and I generally only use it around town, I won't mess with it for now. Some day maybe?
They don't go real fast but they get up to speed real quick as long as the tires will hold it! |
09-13-2019, 11:24 AM | #37 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
Kirby
you can get a 12 bolt 2.41:1 third member from a 79 camero, etc. They work good with 350/350 combo. About 70 MPH at 2100 RPM. Bruce
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09-16-2019, 04:40 PM | #38 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
So, after pulling out a '95 Mustang T5 the other day at my local junk yard and reading everything I can find on adapting it to my 59A block, I went to '84 Chevy S10 T5 that I found on Craigslist. Probably the chickens way out. Thanks for all your comments.
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09-16-2019, 05:27 PM | #39 |
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Re: Help with transmission selection
LOL, but it is easier to get an adapter and clutch parts for! Lot of data out there on the S10 swaps.
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