Replaced my carburetor...used copper line...going steel ASAP

[green50]

My original carburetor (94) was leaking at the gaskets so I changed it out with another one. When I put the steel fuel line back on it was leaking (ferrules bad). I made a new fuel line from copper (12"-16"), do you think of this is acceptable? It doesn't leak now. Thanks

[Jack E/NJ]

Are you known as an instigator? 8^)

Jack E/NJ

[Barry-ct]

Copper is not recommended for fuel line. It can get brittle from engine heat and crack. Replace it with the steel/copper line you get at the auto parts store. You can get new ferrels there also. Re-use the nuts if they're not stripped or damaged.
And yes, you may instigate a long discussion by posting a very controversial subject.

[green50]

Originally Posted by Barry-ct

Copper is not recommended for fuel line. It can get brittle from engine heat and crack. Replace it with the steel/copper line you get at the auto parts store. You can get new ferrels there also. Re-use the nuts if they're not stripped or damaged.
And yes, you may instigate a long discussion by posting a very controversial subject.

Thanks, I didn't mean instigate. I ran it from the fuel pump to the carburetor. I'll replace it with a steel line the first chance I get.

[oldford2]

Well, here come the anti copper folks. "Too brittle and will crack under vibration". Except, there is no movement (vibration) between the fuel pump and carb. I have never seen a first hand report of a copper fuel line between the pump and carb cracking. Too many arm chair metallurgists out there.
JMO
John

[Mac VP]

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I just went thru this on the '42 Ford. Previous owner had installed a copper line. We stock some pre-bent factory fuel lines (steel of course) but not the correct one for my 42. We also stock fuel line kits....copper coated steel with the ferrules and brass fittings. You make up yourself.

This was a great opportunity to try out the stuff we sell. First of all, use a proper tubing bender....the steel line will kink if you try to bend by hand or try to wrap it around a screwdriver handle. Scratch one line!

Second attempt. Located my long lost tubing bender. Made perfect bends but I made it ever so slightly short, and couldn't finagle it into place and keep the fittings lined up squarely. Scratch a second line!

Third attempt. The line is plenty long enough. I just made my first bend (from the carb inlet) with an extra inch or so of line to my first bend. Due to the angles involved between the carb and the fuel pump, I ended up making 3 bends altogether. It's awkward trying to find the best spots for your second and third bends because everything on the motor is in the way. I trimmed the ends to my final length when I felt comfortable with my angles.

The ferrules (compression fittings) are slid onto the tubing ends AFTER you slide on the brass fitting. Leave about 1/16" of tubing showing to the ferrule. I installed one end of my new line into its location at a time....this lets you make sure the line is fully inserted and the ferrule is tightened, securing it onto the tubing permanently. Then remove that end and repeat the process set the other end. Finally, reinstall your new line and retighten both fittings. No sealer or Teflon tape should be necessary to prevent leaks.

Tips....use a proper tubing cutter to make your cuts. Trim any flash from the inside of the tube at your cut. Blow out the line after any cutting. I also found that my ferrules didn't want to slide onto the tube at my fresh cuts. I used a fine tooth file to smooth out the ends for the ferrules.

I feel much happier knowing that I now have a proper steel fuel line to my carb. Sure would hate to be in one of those side-of-the-road videos of a car engulfed in flames.

[B-O-B]

Guess mine is wrong but I'll tuff it out. Copper all the way from the tank to the carb,a couple of interruptions along the way for elec pump & (3)filters. I know some are not overjoyed with glass filter either. I used one on my 66 vette for over 20 years with no problems.

[ford38v8]

Mac, That's a great How-To.
I can add just one tip that you will agree could have made your job easier:
Use a metal coat hanger as a prototype for lengths between bends.

[ford38v8]

B-o-b, Familiarize yourself with the instructions on the side of the bottle.

[42merc]

Originally Posted by Barry-ct

Copper is not recommended for fuel line. It can get brittle from engine heat and crack. Replace it with the steel/copper line you get at the auto parts store. You can get new ferrels there also. Re-use the nuts if they're not stripped or damaged.
And yes, you may instigate a long discussion by posting a very controversial subject.

IMO, using copper gas line on these old Fords is not a big deal, except for the purists.
The days of driving daily on washboard gravel roads are long gone.
The copper line that was installed will outlast the owners life span.

[B-O-B]

Alan I carry one in every car & NOT in the trunk but right by my feet. Grundy is my pal also.


I don't think the sky is falling!!!

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Mac VP

I just went thru this on the '42 Ford. Previous owner had installed a copper line. We stock some pre-bent factory fuel lines (steel of course) but not the correct one for my 42. We also stock fuel line kits....copper coated steel with the ferrules and brass fittings. You make up yourself.

This was a great opportunity to try out the stuff we sell. First of all, use a proper tubing bender....the steel line will kink if you try to bend by hand or try to wrap it around a screwdriver handle. Scratch one line!

Second attempt. Located my long lost tubing bender. Made perfect bends but I made it ever so slightly short, and couldn't finagle it into place and keep the fittings lined up squarely. Scratch a second line!

Third attempt. The line is plenty long enough. I just made my first bend (from the carb inlet) with an extra inch or so of line to my first bend. Due to the angles involved between the carb and the fuel pump, I ended up making 3 bends altogether. It's awkward trying to find the best spots for your second and third bends because everything on the motor is in the way. I trimmed the ends to my final length when I felt comfortable with my angles.

The ferrules (compression fittings) are slid onto the tubing ends AFTER you slide on the brass fitting. Leave about 1/16" of tubing showing to the ferrule. I installed one end of my new line into its location at a time....this lets you make sure the line is fully inserted and the ferrule is tightened, securing it onto the tubing permanently. Then remove that end and repeat the process set the other end. Finally, reinstall your new line and retighten both fittings. No sealer or Teflon tape should be necessary to prevent leaks.

Tips....use a proper tubing cutter to make your cuts. Trim any flash from the inside of the tube at your cut. Blow out the line after any cutting. I also found that my ferrules didn't want to slide onto the tube at my fresh cuts. I used a fine tooth file to smooth out the ends for the ferrules.

I feel much happier knowing that I now have a proper steel fuel line to my carb. Sure would hate to be in one of those side-of-the-road videos of a car engulfed in flames.

Mac, A great "how to" - thanks. One thing I might add: Solder the ferrule to the line. Ford did that for a reason.

[Charlie ny]

X2 on the solder !
Charlie ny

[bobH]

Mac makes some good points. I've tried to make this piece with TWO bends - very difficult to get it right. Mac's point of making THREE bends is a good one - leaves some wiggle-room. However, I wonder what Mac means by using a 'proper tubing cutter'. My background suggests a technique that I never see suggested here. I was taught (aerospace) to never use a 'roller-type' tubing cutter (for stainless) because it work-hardens the end, and leaves it slightly oversize (plus the internal burr). Hence, Mac says the ferrules don't fit without some polishing on the end. I was issued and taught to use a fixture that holds the tubing square, and uses a hacksaw to cut the tube. Then, deburr and polish, paying attention to the surface where the ferrule will rest. And, as Mac says, leave a little tubing beyond the ferrel, but NEVER tubing all the way into the fitting. I've carried this technique over to old car applications, with good success. Just a point of view, JMO
(Of course, the aerospace folks here will note, we NEVER used ferrule-type fittings for flight - in our case, Swagelok. - Only AN)

[ford3]

I have never seen an original car come from the factory with copper fuel lines, always steel, the engineers must know some thing us restorers don't, its steel for me, and also any car that has to go thru safety inspection for registration will not pass with copper fuel lines, that includes Canada

[DavidG]

The saddest part of this debate is the high probability that users of copper fuel lines will not survive the experience of their copper line failing.

[Henry Hopper]

And when the steel line rusts through and sprays fuel all over your engine ,what then?Absolutley nothing wrong with pump to carb copper lines...no vibration, no pressure of note,no rusting, easy to form,perfect for the job.I bet some of you guys stay in the house and lock the doors and windows every Friday 13th.

I work in the refrigeration industry and rarely if ever do I come across fractured copper lines...vibration,heat,cool,high pressures and virtually 24/7 running for years on end....last week I worked on a unit 40 years old and stiil has all the original pipework..all copper.

If you feel safer using steel, then do so, but there really is no need imo.

[Bruce Lancaster]

Steel is stronger and more durable, is I think cheaper than copper, is original, is required for safety in places where there are very thorough inspections, is what all the manufacturers use, while copper is...hmmmm...maybe a little easier to bend...?
This is going to be a difficult choice...

[Kube]

Originally Posted by DavidG

The saddest part of this debate is the high probability that users of copper fuel lines will not survive the experience of their copper line failing.

Dave, I agree with you 100%. I have stayed out of this debate thus far as I have found it diffivult (at best) in the past to convince folks that just because "it worked for me" does not equate to a good (ie: safe) repair. Lots of things "work". That doesn't mean they don't stop working at a very inconvenient time nor at risk to the surrounding folks.
Years ago, it became unlawful (in Wisconsin at least) to knowingly sell compression fittings to a fellow repairing brake lines. I am confident many guys (see : copper fuel line users) have repaired brake lines with compression fittings and "it worked for them".
There would be no law banning their use if at some point a catastrophic event did not occur because of compression fittings in a brake line.
Yeah folks, keep using copper lines... and hopefully, you and innocents around you will at all times remain safe.
In the meantime, I will take just a few more moments and repair / replace my lines, etc. CORRECTLY.
Whatever happened to "do it right the first time"? When was that replaced by "do it fast and cheap 'cause that's good enough"?

[deuce lover]

A tip for multi carb lines.As you can see from the first pic the compression fitting copper lines and all the fittings just did not look right to me and leaked slightly.I just about severed a line by over tightening.I don't care for the fuel blocks that are placed on the firewall and then hoses to each carb.I took some left over 1/4 steel line and made this up.A little more work -especially lining up the line for the carb nearest the firewall.I had a friend tig weld the connection w/silicon bronze rod(no leaks)The loop going to the pump was done on purpose so as to facilitate removing the line without having to loosen the carbs or pump.Hope this helps.

[bobH]

I'm not advocating either way. But, will comment, there is a type of copper that IS APPROVED. I've forgotten which, but I think it might be 'K' ??
David, you are usually looked upon as an 'authority', but don't you think 'high probability' is a little 'over-stating'? There are numerous ways to have failures that might cause a fire. How about a 'spray-type' leak at the carb inlet, that sprays fuel in the direction of the rear of the generator? That would probably get your attention. And, it has nothing to do with type of material used.
I DO agree though, for the application stated, pump-to-carb, I prefer the copper-colored steel, only because it looks 'original', and not for any safety or technical reason. How about a comment from someone who really knows (David), what is the shape of ORIGINAL tube? I don't think I've seen what I could count on as being 'original'? Does original tube have two, or three, bends? And, how far to the left is it routed? Another way of asking this, approx length from carb inlet, to front 90-deg bend?
And, how about some comments on the correct ferrules? The vendor's (at least the vendor's I've used, Mac's, C&G) are selling these lines with common, cheapo, crappy ferrules like are commonly available at local hardware stores, the Depot, etc. Why aren't we demanding correct ferrules? The common ones are not what Ford used, not correct for the application, are inferior, and are prone to leak. David??
How about some comments on correct, proper installation of ferrules? What are we all using for a 'seating' fixture? I hope not the carb or fuel pump.
And, comments above about soldering - is that correct? Did Ford do that? Hard to believe, as a properly seated ferrule on proper tubing, will not leak - especially at the pressure we are using. However, if Ford DID solder, then, at what stage? I would suggest that a ferrule should be properly 'seated', before soldering. Is that what folks that solder are doing? And, what type of solder? I assume soft-solder (not silver-solder). I, for one, would not be qualified to do this solder job - I never managed to attend solder school. JMO

Kube, I don't think you should dismiss ALL 'compression' fittings. Have you ever worked with Swagelok's at high, really high, psi? I think it's the common ferrule's that are discussed here, that are the really poor performer's, and these are the ones we should avoid. I, for one, would like to NOT see them in ANY automotive application. And, I think the vendor's should make an effort to provide the original ferrules like Ford used, and like what are correct for the fittings being discussed here.
Another discussion someday... How to properly install a ferrule, how to make a proper flare, how to double flare (properly), pros & cons of 45deg SAE vs 37deg AN for auto fuel and brake lines, pros & cons of cone seals, etc, etc.
JMO

[Bruce Lancaster]

There is a copper based line that is even suitable for brake lines...trade name begins with "cupro.." I think. Commonly used in England for repairs and OEM, with a very strict inspection system in place, but this is expensive alloy stuff not at all like common copper tube.

[my4dv8]

Yes Bruce it is called Cupro nickel . So presume it is a blend of sorts. It is brake rated. Makes nice flares and bends being slightly softer.

Originally Posted by Bruce Lancaster

There is a copper based line that is even suitable for brake lines...trade name begins with "cupro.." I think. Commonly used in England for repairs and OEM, with a very strict inspection system in place, but this is expensive alloy stuff not at all like common copper tube.

[Tim Ayers]

Originally Posted by Charlie ny

X2 on the solder !
Charlie ny

Really? Curious on what this does. Doesn't the nut hold it tight enough?

[Kube]

Originally Posted by bobH

I'm not advocating either way. But, will comment, there is a type of copper that IS APPROVED. I've forgotten which, but I think it might be 'K' ??
David, you are usually looked upon as an 'authority', but don't you think 'high probability' is a little 'over-stating'? There are numerous ways to have failures that might cause a fire. How about a 'spray-type' leak at the carb inlet, that sprays fuel in the direction of the rear of the generator? That would probably get your attention. And, it has nothing to do with type of material used.
I DO agree though, for the application stated, pump-to-carb, I prefer the copper-colored steel, only because it looks 'original', and not for any safety or technical reason. How about a comment from someone who really knows (David), what is the shape of ORIGINAL tube? I don't think I've seen what I could count on as being 'original'? Does original tube have two, or three, bends? And, how far to the left is it routed? Another way of asking this, approx length from carb inlet, to front 90-deg bend?
And, how about some comments on the correct ferrules? The vendor's (at least the vendor's I've used, Mac's, C&G) are selling these lines with common, cheapo, crappy ferrules like are commonly available at local hardware stores, the Depot, etc. Why aren't we demanding correct ferrules? The common ones are not what Ford used, not correct for the application, are inferior, and are prone to leak. David??
How about some comments on correct, proper installation of ferrules? What are we all using for a 'seating' fixture? I hope not the carb or fuel pump.
And, comments above about soldering - is that correct? Did Ford do that? Hard to believe, as a properly seated ferrule on proper tubing, will not leak - especially at the pressure we are using. However, if Ford DID solder, then, at what stage? I would suggest that a ferrule should be properly 'seated', before soldering. Is that what folks that solder are doing? And, what type of solder? I assume soft-solder (not silver-solder). I, for one, would not be qualified to do this solder job - I never managed to attend solder school. JMO

Kube, I don't think you should dismiss ALL 'compression' fittings. Have you ever worked with Swagelok's at high, really high, psi? I think it's the common ferrule's that are discussed here, that are the really poor performer's, and these are the ones we should avoid. I, for one, would like to NOT see them in ANY automotive application. And, I think the vendor's should make an effort to provide the original ferrules like Ford used, and like what are correct for the fittings being discussed here.
Another discussion someday... How to properly install a ferrule, how to make a proper flare, how to double flare (properly), pros & cons of 45deg SAE vs 37deg AN for auto fuel and brake lines, pros & cons of cone seals, etc, etc.
JMO

I can comment on at least some of your queries...
* The '39 - '40 line between carb & pump had only two bends.
* Yes, Ford DID solder the ferrules at every end including the line from the tank to the flex hose.
* As a retired tool & die maker I have in fact worked with compression fittings at very high PSI specs. These were not what I was referring to within my comments about brake line "repairs". Perhaps I did not allow enough details in my discussion of poor brake line repairs. However, the point, I doubt, was lost on many. The guy that repairs a brake line by splicing in a line with compression fittings is obviously NOT seeking out high quality (high cost) fittings. Rather, he is seeking a low cost, quick and easy way to rig up a system.
* Like you, I am fully aware of the poopy most vendors sell in way of lines and fittings. Typically the fittings are a metric size across the flats of the nuts. The lines are 1/4" while the ferules are metric, making them incorrectly suited for a 1/4" line.
* While I agree with you that a discussion in regard to the proper way to bend, flare, seat ferules, etc. is a worthy endevour, it appears from my experience most guys fall in to one of two categories - those that actually care to learn and do a job correctly and those that simply want to get it "good enough" to roll down a street.
I continue to learn on a daily basis and as such have found numerous ways to increase the quality of my restoration and repair work. I enjoy the learning process as a way to test my own abilities.
I also feel it a duty to help others when I am able. I have been fortunate to have had a number of mentors as a younger man. Long gone now (rest their souls) I feel those that were properly trained owe it to the "youngin's" to pass this knowledge on.
So, back to your suggestion to teach the proper methods I ask you: "How many folks do you think really care enough to learn properly and then actually take that knowledge and apply it"?
My experience clearly has been MOST folks are quite happy with "good enough".
respectfully,
Mike

[Barry-ct]

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Green 50................. I said you'd open up a hornets nest!

When you go to a new car dealer to get a brake line or fuel lines ( older cars ) You get steel lines. We would buy it in a 50' roll and add our fittings. Now you can get the lines pre bent for most makes with some even coated to resist corrosion. I blew out a line on my 03 F-150 on a quick stop at a light. Replacement was steel.
If you want to use copper, so be it. Hopefully, nothing will happen to you or others. I will always use steel lines.

[Henry Hopper]

If fire really is s major worry for you, and I am not taking the chance of fire lightly, but I think that the Ethonal fuel that you use over in the U.S is more of a worry.I almost lost a stone stock 32 roadster that I bought from America.....the fuel had eaten the rubber fuel line and it burst, spraying fuel all over the engine,front fenders and the garage....the short length of rubber fuel line blew up like a sausage and split.I would say that stuff is more a fire risk than the remote chance( if any) of a short copper line breaking.

[G.M.]

Originally Posted by green50

My original carburetor (94) was leaking at the gaskets so I changed it out with another one. When I put the steel fuel line back on it was leaking (ferrules bad). I made a new fuel line from copper (12"-16"), do you think of this is acceptable? It doesn't leak now. Thanks

There is no vibration or movement of the pump to carb line, it may not be the correct original material but will never work harden and fail, it takes hammering on the copper or quite a bit of bending to harden the copper.
The problem I see with ferrules leaking is they are made of hard brass and don't compress very well. Heat them a little until the color changes and dip in cold water. This will soften the ferrules and allow them to compress and seal. It's very hard to get those hard ones to seal. G.M.

[FlatheadTed]

I wouldn't use copper from pump to carb simply because the probability of removing it more often compresses the joints ,or ferules and its not long before you get leaks .Has any one done any tests as to ft ibs put out by a non vacuum boosted brake system ,Some cars had copper brake line from the factory such as Auburn and are still legal ,Some copper is rated at 600 psi

[bobH]

Originally Posted by Kube

I can comment on at least some of your queries...
* The '39 - '40 line between carb & pump had only two bends.
* Yes, Ford DID solder the ferrules at every end including the line from the tank to the flex hose.
* As a retired tool & die maker I have in fact worked with compression fittings at very high PSI specs. These were not what I was referring to within my comments about brake line "repairs". Perhaps I did not allow enough details in my discussion of poor brake line repairs. However, the point, I doubt, was lost on many. The guy that repairs a brake line by splicing in a line with compression fittings is obviously NOT seeking out high quality (high cost) fittings. Rather, he is seeking a low cost, quick and easy way to rig up a system.
* Like you, I am fully aware of the poopy most vendors sell in way of lines and fittings. Typically the fittings are a metric size across the flats of the nuts. The lines are 1/4" while the ferules are metric, making them incorrectly suited for a 1/4" line.
* While I agree with you that a discussion in regard to the proper way to bend, flare, seat ferules, etc. is a worthy endevour, it appears from my experience most guys fall in to one of two categories - those that actually care to learn and do a job correctly and those that simply want to get it "good enough" to roll down a street.
I continue to learn on a daily basis and as such have found numerous ways to increase the quality of my restoration and repair work. I enjoy the learning process as a way to test my own abilities.
I also feel it a duty to help others when I am able. I have been fortunate to have had a number of mentors as a younger man. Long gone now (rest their souls) I feel those that were properly trained owe it to the "youngin's" to pass this knowledge on.
So, back to your suggestion to teach the proper methods I ask you: "How many folks do you think really care enough to learn properly and then actually take that knowledge and apply it"?
My experience clearly has been MOST folks are quite happy with "good enough".
respectfully,
Mike

Amen. And, thank you Mike.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Tim Ayers

Really? Curious on what this does. Doesn't the nut hold it tight enough?

May have been to hold the parts together as a unit during production and assure that the ferrules were in the correct location on the tubes (handling and quality control). Not sure if this was repeated at the dealerships during repairs, that would be interesting to know.

[green50]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

A tip for multi carb lines.As you can see from the first pic the compression fitting copper lines and all the fittings just did not look right to me and leaked slightly.I just about severed a line by over tightening.I don't care for the fuel blocks that are placed on the firewall and then hoses to each carb.I took some left over 1/4 steel line and made this up.A little more work -especially lining up the line for the carb nearest the firewall.I had a friend tig weld the connection w/silicon bronze rod(no leaks)The loop going to the pump was done on purpose so as to facilitate removing the line without having to loosen the carbs or pump.Hope this helps.

That's a sweet looking setup!

[bmf]

It seems that some posters here believe that the engine does not vibrate and therefore cannot harm a copper line. Where did this theory come from? Hmmm?
Same with rough roads.

[joe plumber]

Originally Posted by bobH

I'm not advocating either way. But, will comment, there is a type of copper that IS APPROVED. I've forgotten which, but I think it might be 'K' ??
David, you are usually looked upon as an 'authority', but don't you think 'high probability' is a little 'over-stating'? There are numerous ways to have failures that might cause a fire. How about a 'spray-type' leak at the carb inlet, that sprays fuel in the direction of the rear of the generator? That would probably get your attention. And, it has nothing to do with type of material used.
I DO agree though, for the application stated, pump-to-carb, I prefer the copper-colored steel, only because it looks 'original', and not for any safety or technical reason. How about a comment from someone who really knows (David), what is the shape of ORIGINAL tube? I don't think I've seen what I could count on as being 'original'? Does original tube have two, or three, bends? And, how far to the left is it routed? Another way of asking this, approx length from carb inlet, to front 90-deg bend?
And, how about some comments on the correct ferrules? The vendor's (at least the vendor's I've used, Mac's, C&G) are selling these lines with common, cheapo, crappy ferrules like are commonly available at local hardware stores, the Depot, etc. Why aren't we demanding correct ferrules? The common ones are not what Ford used, not correct for the application, are inferior, and are prone to leak. David??
How about some comments on correct, proper installation of ferrules? What are we all using for a 'seating' fixture? I hope not the carb or fuel pump.
And, comments above about soldering - is that correct? Did Ford do that? Hard to believe, as a properly seated ferrule on proper tubing, will not leak - especially at the pressure we are using. However, if Ford DID solder, then, at what stage? I would suggest that a ferrule should be properly 'seated', before soldering. Is that what folks that solder are doing? And, what type of solder? I assume soft-solder (not silver-solder). I, for one, would not be qualified to do this solder job - I never managed to attend solder school. JMO

Kube, I don't think you should dismiss ALL 'compression' fittings. Have you ever worked with Swagelok's at high, really high, psi? I think it's the common ferrule's that are discussed here, that are the really poor performer's, and these are the ones we should avoid. I, for one, would like to NOT see them in ANY automotive application. And, I think the vendor's should make an effort to provide the original ferrules like Ford used, and like what are correct for the fittings being discussed here.
Another discussion someday... How to properly install a ferrule, how to make a proper flare, how to double flare (properly), pros & cons of 45deg SAE vs 37deg AN for auto fuel and brake lines, pros & cons of cone seals, etc, etc.
JMO

K copper is approved for underground use because it has a thicker wall than L or M .Never heard of K being approved for gasoline , water only that I know of .Makes no difference what you cut copper with as long as it is cut straight .The use of a cutter will leave a ridge inside the tube which will have to be reamed out ,where as a hacksaw will leave no ridge inside .

[Jack E/NJ]

dl>>>loop going to the pump>>>

I dunno. Looks more like a droop to me. 8^)

One or more wide radius loops can significantly reduce any kind of metal tubing stress & fatigue as well as facilitate disassembly, especially if the tubing connections tend NOT to move in unison.

Jack E/NJ

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by Charlie ny

X2 on the solder !
Charlie ny

Do you install and tighten everything THEN remove and solder or do you set ferrule at 1/16" from end, solder, THEN install and tighten line?

[Kube]

Originally Posted by jrvariel48

Do you install and tighten everything THEN remove and solder or do you set ferrule at 1/16" from end, solder, THEN install and tighten line?

I set the ferule in a "donor" fuel pump I have. I do NOT use the carburetor nor pump on the car to seat the ferules. Once they have been seated, I apply the solder.
Ford did this on all their lines to avoid both fuel and air (vacuum) leaks.

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by Kube

I set the ferule in a "donor" fuel pump I have. I do NOT use the carburetor nor pump on the car to seat the ferules. Once they have been seated, I apply the solder.
Ford did this on all their lines to avoid both fuel and air (vacuum) leaks.

And this is done with the line sticking out 1/16" passed the ferrule correct??

[Steves46]

Although this is not an original & correct set-up, several years ago I installed hose barb fittings with an alcohol proof fuel injection hose between the fuel pump and carburetor with zero problems & zero leaks.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by jrvariel48

And this is done with the line sticking out 1/16" passed the ferrule correct??

I never measured it but I would hazard a guess at closer to an 1/8".

[tiger.1000]

Green......numerous pre-war British cars were fitted with copper fuel lines. To this day I continue to fit them and have never had a problem. A snug fitting brass olive will not leak if fitted correctly and I have never found the necessity to solder them.

If you need some imperial brass olives, I have hundreds. PM me and I'll send you some. Late birthday present from the UK !

[rotorwrench]

I've had several jury rigged old cars and motorcycles that ended up with rubber line adapted in for filters, different carburetors, etc. On the motorcycles, it's pretty much OEM to have rubber line but I've had leakers on more than one occasion and was just lucky that the drafty old turds would let enough vapor into the cab or fuel on my pant leg to get my noses attention before catching fire.

I could safely say that copper will most likely outlast the flimsy rubber hose. This still puts in into one of those "maybe it wil last" catagories. If the copper is mounted from one point to another on a solid foundation like between a carb and pump, it will last longer than a mounting that attaches from one point to another in a flexible situation like between an engine and a firewall where the engine can move separately from the body. The flexibility will cause fatigue at a compounded rate over a more stable mounting.

You can throw caution to the wind and take your chances. Some people like to take chances. I hope your Karma is good. Keep in mind that your passengers don't have a choice in the matter.

On the aircraft engines, I still anneal the copper spark plug washers at every 100-hour inspection to make sure they seal better at each torque up after testing.

[G.M.]

The problem with a lot of the new ferrules is they are made of hard brass and won't compress and seal until you way over tighten them. And they still don't bit onto the tubing. I anneal the ferrules and then they seal. G.M.

[jrvariel48]

Originally Posted by Kube

I never measured it but I would hazard a guess at closer to an 1/8".

Thanks Kube! This sounds like the proper installation to me.

[tiger.1000]

Although not a fuel pipe this is one method I used to absorb vibration on my Model B.

Doubtless barners will recognise this readily available Ford accessory.....

[Jim Wilson]

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The Early Ford V-8 Club's 1935-36 book states that the fuel lines were originally 1/4" copper coated steel. Roy Nacewicz supplies "Correct copper clad steel gas line for 1936-48 Fords". I wonder how many folks have seen these lines and mistakenly identified them as copper lines?

Jim Wilson

[joe plumber]

Originally Posted by Jim Wilson

The Early Ford V-8 Club's 1935-36 book states that the fuel lines were originally 1/4" copper coated steel. Roy Nacewicz supplies "Correct copper clad steel gas line for 1936-48 Fords". I wonder how many folks have seen these lines and mistakenly identified them as copper lines?

Jim Wilson

There is also tin lined copper tubing

[Tom Walker]

I think we've been here before!
Copper tube is for domestic plumbing.
For carrying brake fluid and fuel around your car, there is an alloy of copper, nickel and iron, lets say Cunifer, which does an excellent job because it doesn't corrode, is resistant to fracturing, and is easy to work with.
Many quality modern cars have as OEM copper alloy brake lines, how often have you heard of brake failure due to fractured lines?

[rick r]

another option is copper-steel brake line. get it at CARQUEST. looks more like copper than steel, bends with bender or fingers and does not rust. Also, if you have brake lines to replace, give it a try. lt is also easier to double flare than steel line