Model A street rod

[Robert61]

I'll try again, hello I'm Robert, I posted in the model a section and a few didn't like it and suggested I move over here or somewhere else all together. Actually either is fine with me. I've asked the mods to move it or delete it. So here goes. I'm helping a friend build a model A street rod for his wife. I've done quite a few mods to it and though some here would like to see it and a few have pm'd to keep posting. As far as the body we've chopped it 2", added power windows all of the way around including the Windows behind the driver, and a power rumble seat, Vintage Air, power steering and brakes, 700r4, and a Corvette rear axle. The engine is a flatty the we bored +.125, added a 4" Mercury crank, 3X2, Offy heads and intake. I modified the engine for full flow filtering, one piece front and rear main seals, Scat rods, small cam. I made the engine mounts to incorporate the 409 Chevy water pump, power steering A/C and alternator mounting. And who doesn't like a serpentine belt? The ignition is a flat top Chevy distributor modified to use a GM HEI module for ease of use and repair if needed. It takes me a long time to post pics as I can only do 2 at a time. And if this side goes the same as the other I won't ever get to posting them all anyway, I hope some of you will enjoy the work.

[Robert61]

I welded in a small block Chevy pan section and fabbed the parts for the front cover.

[Robert61]

The rear main was a little more interesting. Once I machined the back of the block it either had to work of the block was toast.

[Robert61]

I made the rear main adapter similar to how Chevrolet converted their blocks to one piece seals.

[Robert61]

Adapter finished and installed.

[Robert61]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Making the mounts.

[Robert61]

Mount

[Robert61]

Front finished with serpentine set up installed.

[Robert61]

700R4. When we fabbed the chassis with a Speedway Motors kit I said oh the 4l60e and 700r4 are the same. When we went to install the finished 700R4 there weren't any bolt holes in the back. We had to make a spacer to remedy that little snafu.

[Robert61]

And lastly the rear axle. I had an extra Corvette rear end so we put it in because we like it.

[Robert61]

Questions were asked in the other thread about the rear main. It had nothing to do with strengthening, just to eliminate oil leaks. The engine is +.125" bore 4" stroke for a whopping 276". With the overdrive trans and full flow oil filtering they should be able to drive anywhere they choose.

[50fordcoupeman]

Amazing work!!

[40cpe]

That kind of work is way above my pay grade! Blows me away! My only complaint is the pictures aren't large enough.

I'm in Star, MS just below Jackson. Do you mind saying where you are?

[Robert61]

Way up north Olive Branch. We used to race with the Cliburns I know where Star is. It's taking forever to get them loaded as is. Have you clicked on them? They do blow up a little at least enough to see.

[Darrell S]

Those modifications are amazing and the workmanship is beautiful, a work of art. There are lots of hot rods on this site but most are pretty traditional. Have you looked over on the HAMB? There are lots of heavily modified cars over there, they do some great work too.

Merry Christmas.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 40cpe

My only complaint is the pictures aren't large enough.

[Robert61]

[QUOTE=Darrell S;1834614]Those modifications are amazing and the workmanship is beautiful, a work of art. There are lots of hot rods on this site but most are pretty traditional. Have you looked over on the HAMB? There are lots of heavily modified cars over there, they do some great work too.

Merry Christmas.[/QUOTE


I've seen the forum just not for me.

[Robert61]

I'm a retired machinist and lucky for them it's fun for me and free for them other than material and plating. I just posted it because I thought some of the old flathead guys might be interested, maybe not. Ya never know. For the purists the owner has a 30 model a sedan as originally built and it was built locally so that's cool. He has another Tudor we may rat rod after we finish the cars we're working on.

[dwick01]

You do great work! It's going to be one hell of a car.

[Pete]

Just curious, when you were machining the back of the block for the seal, did you face the bell housing flange? They are not too close from the factory. I have had 2 blocks over the years that the dowel pins were off quite a bit also.

[40cpe]

Originally Posted by Robert61

Way up north Olive Branch. We used to race with the Cliburns I know where Star is.

I wish you were closer, I would love to see that build.

You probably raced with George Paul, too?

[Robert61]

I not as familiar with that name seems like I've heard it before.

[Robert61]

Originally Posted by Pete

Just curious, when you were machining the back of the block for the seal, did you face the bell housing flange? They are not too close from the factory. I have had 2 blocks over the years that the dowel pins were off quite a bit also.

I did not face the block. I faced of the back with my line boring bar. Very unorthodox but it actually worked great. We used an adapter plate to hook the 700r4 up and everything lined up very well including the converter. If you look at the crank I had to bore the rear for a bushing to align the converter.

[tubman]

It will be interesting to find out how the one piece rear seal works (from the looks of it, it should). I have not used the one piece front seals, as I have never had a problem with the regular ones, but an improved rear seal would be of interest.

All in all, you are doing a fantastic job, although it is really more suited to the H.A.M.B. There may be some resistance to it here, which I would also understand.

[Robert61]

What I used is a true one piece seal front and back rear. I won't comment on the other seals.

[Newc]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

WOW; those poor model A guys missed out. Although the SSOS gang do some similar work on the 4's. Newc

[mfagan]

Lucky wife! Great craftsmanship!!!

[Sal]

Awesome craftsmanship, it's a shame that some guy's have a closed mind with hot rods.
I drove my full fender '30 model A coupe to a car show years back and had a guy from a Model A club tell me " We're glad you didn't park that near us" I almost told him to bugger off.

[Desoto291Hemi]

Robert,,,yes the Hamb would be more suited for these pics.
Also,,,,super easy to post pics there,,,,and they can be enlarged to show great details.
That is where all of mine are.
Beautiful work,,,you might consider this stuff to manufacture for others ?
I am very impressed,,and interested in your work .

Merry Christmas !

Tommy

[Robert61]

I posted here for one reason for Model A enthusiasts, particularly flathead Model A enthusiasts, to look at. I'm quite use to the purists vs modified world as I'm building a 61 Vette and and the pro con crowd there is even more vocal. If some like fine if some hate fine. We like it and I'm 100% certain that she will receive FAR more compliments than negative comments at car shows and it will be parked next to their 100% stock unrestored Model A sedan. I am simply showing how we did a few things.


A lot have mentioned going to H.A.M.B. All I can say there is tell them to come look here. My only experience with that site is an occasional Internet search for an answer brings it up. And to me it is very well named because a lot of the question and answers are H.A.

[Robert61]

I just noticed in closing out my first thread has 5 stars so apparently even though this is complete garbage to many some are enjoying it. I'll post on the body as we go but it is just entering the primer body work phase all major work is done, I hope. The body is all steel and original. Her only demands are full fender, hood, and side panels.

[Charlie ny]

Robert,
I will look forward to whatever you post....talent and genius are appreciated
on this site. You will get to know JWL aka John Lawson, Ol' Ron ( Ron Haloran ) Flat
Jack...Jack Meyer plus reams of us who live flatheads......stock and modified.
Charlie ny

[Robert61]

Ok Ron is the only name here I'm familiar with. I had never built a flatty before this one. I had done machine work on them years ago but the owners took them home and assembled them. But I have been building a different flatty for years. These are capable of just over 10,000 rpm.

[Robert61]

Small flatty

[rotorwrench]

You haven't really seen any hate yet. The model A guys can show you that sometimes but it depends on whether they take offence for some reason. Most of the model A guys still have 4 bangers since this a restoration type forum. I'm an AV8 guy myself but I don't mention that stuff on the A board. I enjoy the idea you have there but is a lot of work for a mod that complicated. Most traditional guys like myself still use the rope seals and manual overdrive type transmissions with some going over to the simpler C4 automatic transmissions since adapters are available and most of the mod parts are already solved for them. Your thread is not garbage.

You ought to see some of the pan rail girdles that folks have come up with in order to strengthen the block for high horse power big bore stroker V8 motors. The ones that take up the whole pan rail and include the main caps can get way out there so I can see the merits of any modification. Most of the stress is on the center main so as long as that area isn't affected then it will at least hold the strength that is has. A person does have to be careful when drilling on the main webs for the higher horse power engines. Moderate power levels should be no problem.

[Robert61]

I've seen those. Years ago I built the heads for Buddy Ingersol's Pro Stock pinto, a 2000 CC turbo 4 banger. I had to modify the center cam bearing on the head because the extreme rpm and spring force would snap it off.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Robert61

I have been building a different flatty for years. These are capable of just over 10,000 rpm.

I worked with an old air traffic controller that built similar 5 horse Briggs that would spool-up like that. He and his boy were into racing some pretty serious go-carts. Oh yeah, I like hot rods too! DD

[Robert61]

Each of those is a different size with the largest being 360 CCs. It's a pretty mean little engine. They are raced in unlimited opens. Most all are running 460 CC motor cycle engines or 2 strokes. Guys here certainly wouldn't consider me a purist but Kart racing is supposed to be flatheads. Lol I guess that's my rule. He's quit running the flatheads this year but at their biggest race at thanksgiving his dad called and wanted to know if I had another intake manifold as theirs broke. He said the little flatty was flying against the others buy they were on a slick indoor track and all of the horse power in the world won't help if it doesn't hook up. I still love kart racing but I'm way too old.

[Robert61]

Rotorwrench you are correct it was a lot of work to convert the seals but I'm retired and I wanted to do it so there it is. One guy comes over and says man you need to patent this stuff. I said first I'm too old second it's way too much work for anyone to actually want to do and thirdly even if they did finding someone capable and willing to do the required machine work is getting hard to do. Then there's the pan I probably have a week in just the oil pan. Someone used to make the front mounts for the 409 water pump conversion but there's didn't have provisions for mounting the accessories. With all the comments about how ugly it is and unnecessary with the full body on it almost no one will even know we did it in the first place. Maybe a very small few will take the time to say Hmmm that's different. But the overwhelming majority would never even see a difference in the water pump.

[19Fordy]

Robert61. You are amazing. Fabulous work. Make your photos bigger , if possible.

[Robert61]

Hell I can't get more than 2 at a time posted as it is. I can't post any from my phone. I have no idea how the 2 have posted my pics larger. You could very well say I'm computer illiterate and dumb. Petehoovie and V8Coopman obviously know how.

[Robert61]

I am getting the owner to post the body pics. Then the fit will hit the shan. I forgot just how nice of original running driving car this was.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Robert61

Hell I can't get more than 2 at a time posted as it is. I can't post any from my phone. I have no idea how the 2 have posted my pics larger. You could very well say I'm computer illiterate and dumb. Petehoovie and V8Coopman obviously know how.

Robert...Some of your pics I'm able to make larger. But some of them, like the one posted below seem to be in "some" oddball format that I'm not able to make any bigger. Maybe JSeery will stop by and be able to figure this out. DD

[Robert61]

I just read your post on how to increase the size. I'm working off of an iPad mini and I don't see any way to do all of that and like I said I can't post from my android phone. I'm an analog guy in a digital world.

[Pete]

...

[rotorwrench]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

It's not as easy on a phone as it is on a PC but the PC isn't a camera either. It's all about the file type and most phones only make one type of file. Download the file to a PC and you can change it however you want with various programs or apps (whatever folks call them these days).

[Robert61]

Body shots

[Robert61]

More body

[Robert61]

Trial fitting. Running AC lines.

[rotorwrench]

I've seen those 32 style tanks that are available but that's the first one I've seen on a car.

[Robert61]

That tank is a great topic of debate. One I'll just finish here. The boss i.e. the woman that owns and is going to drive it wants the original filler neck left in as well as the rear tank, I agree that it must stay. The owner I'm helping build the car says it's dumb to have 2 fuel necks and it has to go. I say no one will ever notice and it stays. So far we haven't cut it out.

[Robert61]

Getting ready to do our first chop!

[Robert61]

It's ugly now but it will be fine after upholstery. As I mentioned all windows are functional.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Robert...Some of your pics I'm able to make larger. But some of them, like the one posted below seem to be in "some" oddball format that I'm not able to make any bigger. Maybe JSeery will stop by and be able to figure this out. DD

It may just be a size issue in the other direction, LOL. The file appears to be around 18Kb, so fairly small. Not much to work with there.

[petehoovie]

[40 Deluxe]

AV8's have probably been around since the first V8 hit the junkyard, so this car is period correct! It may annoy the "correct factory smudge marks" crowd, but I think it has a place on this forum. Considering the vast amounts of aftermarket accessories available back then, factory original-as built cars were in the minority, no doubt. Tops were chopped back then too. This car is just a 21st century version of a traditional AV8!

[Ol' Ron]

I am truely impressed with this build. Thank you for posting this thread.
Gramps

[Robert61]

Thanks Ron. As you can see this is my first flathead (Ford) build, my first Model A, and first time to chop a top. I think it is turning out nicely and the owner is going to be very happy with the final result. The male owner asked when we first started if this was really my first flathead. I said well I've built a ton of Briggs race motors so to me it's just eight of them at one time just not in a race version.

[Randy in ca]

Originally Posted by Robert61

It's ugly now but it will be fine after upholstery. As I mentioned all windows are functional.

Appears that you're modifying the quarter windows to be opening (power) also? Tricky and unique!!!

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Randy in ca

Appears that you're modifying the quarter windows to be opening (power) also? Tricky and unique!!!

[Robert61]

I wrote that in the op. Yes everything is power including the rear glass. The side windows were work but when finished she'll be one of the only ones I've seen with this.

[Robert61]

Here's the remote oil filter. It is full flow filtering not bypass. That was a whole mother can of worms.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by Robert61

Here's the remote oil filter. It is full flow filtering not bypass. That was a whole mother can of worms.

Yes they are, LOL.

[Ol' Ron]

I hope the 348/409 water pump cools better than the one we tride on the stock cat back in the 60s. We ran one for several races, but went back to the stock ones. The pump just couldn't cool it well enough. However on a street engine the do work, so I'm told??

[Robert61]

I have no reason to believe it won't work. It's a high volume pump and the system is pressurized like any other engine. If it tries to run hot I'll add cooling lines to the rear of the motor.

[petehoovie]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Robert...Have you fired that engine yet?

[Robert61]

Not yet. Still getting all of the plumbing sorted. And I need at least some exhaust on it. Maybe this week or the next, but I've been saying that for 2 months.